Frustrated reader

[sugarisnice]

It seems as if many of the stories I click to read are missing something, like a story. The idea may be there, but writers need to know they cannot just start a series with a large intro and then wait for chapter 2 to get into the real meat of the story. You must capture your reader with the first few paragraphs or else they may just click off.

 

[CWatson]

And, if the votes and feedback systems work the way they're supposed to, they will.

As a frustrated reader reading bad authors, the best thing you can do for yourself is communicate to those authors--politely, of course --why they're bad, and how to improve. This also tells you something about whether they're good or not: the bad ones ignore you.

 

[JackLuis]

How does the rating system work?

And, if the votes and feedback systems work the way they're supposed to, they will.

As a frustrated reader reading bad authors, the best thing you can do for yourself is communicate to those authors--politely, of course --why they're bad, and how to improve. This also tells you something about whether they're good or not: the bad ones ignore you.

_____________________________________--
I'm a "new" author and have been posting my work here for about 2 months and trying to figure out some things.

Such as when your story is "Viewed" is it just people who click on the first page or is it people who view all pages? It makes a lot of difference to me as I got 11,000 reads of my first chapter over the last month and only 3-5,000 reads of the subsequent chapters (that is after they had been up for a week or so).
Do I infer form that that a lot of people read the first paragraph and then switch off?

Also some of the chapters the exposition ones, have maybe 2,500 "Views" and the next chapter which has a lot more 'poke and stroke' might have 5,500 'Views"

My scores are running above 4.17 to 4.5 and only about 20 or so folks rate the stories. Does that mean only a few are reading the whole chapter?

 

[emap]

Jack the views are people who look at your story, there is no way of telling if they read the first word and go elsewhere, read the first paragraph or actually read the entire thing. Feedback and votes are always just a teensy tiny portion of your viewers.

As an example one of my stories has over 20000 views, I received 4 private feedbacks and no public, may have been three private I don't recall exactly anymore. Only three spring to mind on that story at any rate, though I got a niggling suspicion there was another.

 

[sr71plt]

And, if the votes and feedback systems work the way they're supposed to, they will.

As a frustrated reader reading bad authors, the best thing you can do for yourself is communicate to those authors--politely, of course --why they're bad, and how to improve. This also tells you something about whether they're good or not: the bad ones ignore you.

Considering the large number of stories on the site, wouldn't the "best" thing for a frustrated reader to do be just to keep testing out the stories until they find authors who resonate with them and just follow the writings of these? I don't see where the "best" thing to do would be to rattle the cages of authors the reader wasn't satisfied until the authors produce what the reader wants to read.

 

[starrkers]

Or maybe if enough "frustrated readers" PMed Laurel about crap stories, she might look at vetting them a bit closer?
But probably not. Seems to me the size of the site is beginning to be its downfall. It is becoming too big for a one-woman operation to oversee effectively and is becoming cluttered with drivel.
I would suggest a cull, based on age of story, views and ratings, but I'd be crucified.

 

[Dreamthiev]

I don't know, what appeals to someone is always going to be different from person to person. Some of the readers here don't want anything resembling a plot and are just looking for pure stroke material.

It can certainly be hard to find a story that suits your interests, though. There's quite a few things that can turn me off a story pretty much instantly. But there's other people who won't care about them, or who actually like stories written that way.

Wouldn't mind seeing some additional tools to help filter and preview stories, though.

 

[DeeZire]

I've been impressed by this writer.

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=17146&page=submissions

Interesting stories, short, to the point, with a twist.

 

[CWatson]

Considering the large number of stories on the site, wouldn't the "best" thing for a frustrated reader to do be just to keep testing out the stories until they find authors who resonate with them and just follow the writings of these? I don't see where the "best" thing to do would be to rattle the cages of authors the reader wasn't satisfied until the authors produce what the reader wants to read.

Well, yes, and there is a certain amount of take-your-lumps-and-keep-on-trucking involved. Over on StoriesOnline, I filtered the "Show Me A Random Story" function to exclude all forms of incest, which is a personal squick of mine. I lost 6,000 stories, a THIRD of the site's content, to that one tag. Eventually, you accept that you won't like everything, and move on.

But what the OP is complaining about doesn't strike me so much as a "personal taste" issue as a "bad writer" issue. I'm with sugarisnice: the story should have started by the end of the first chapter--heck, preferably by the end of the first paragraph. And if it didn't, well, I must paraphrase one of the mischievous kittens you might have seen online:

STORY: UR DOIN IT WRONG

Your mileage may vary.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

... Wouldn't mind seeing some additional tools to help filter and preview stories, though.

Over the last five years, at least, there has been a perennial cry for some sort of coding (eg, mm inc mc etc.) but the problem is that with just under 150,000 uncoded stories, it really is too late to do anything.

... It is becoming too big for a one-woman operation to oversee effectively ...

If you believe that she-whose-name-must-not-be-posted (although it is public information), the owner of this site, handles 50+ stories every day of the year, averaging (say) 4000 words each, then why are there all those people in the office-block-whose-address-must-not-be-posted (although it is public information)? In any case one person could not read 200,000 words a day, let alone make judgements on them.

 

[DevilOrAngel]

I'm with Watson on this. If a writer doesn't have me interested within first paragraph possibly two than I'm gone. And unexpected twists are nice. BTW I'm new to posting threads and such so would someone please either PM me or explain to me here, how to start a thread? THANKS VERY MUCH

 

[Shwenn]

It seems as if many of the stories I click to read are missing something, like a story. The idea may be there, but writers need to know they cannot just start a series with a large intro and then wait for chapter 2 to get into the real meat of the story. You must capture your reader with the first few paragraphs or else they may just click off.

Interesting.

I have an erotic series started here (3 chapters) with a long exposition and a sci-fi series I put on another site with a long exposition.

The impression I get is that reader of sci-fi are far more patient with expository writing than readers of erotica. The story here has bombed pretty miserably, with the exception of ch. 2 where I threw in some fucking for the hell of it.

The sci-fi piece got some awesome responses talking about how it looked like it was heading somewhere really interesting. They seem to want to really get to know the characters before they start doing things and getting into predicaments.

Erotica readers are more like, "Okay, this guy is insecure. Who cares? Where's the fucking?"

Really, I don't think it's quite as YMMV as you guys might think.

 

[sr71plt]

But what the OP is complaining about doesn't strike me so much as a "personal taste" issue as a "bad writer" issue. I'm with sugarisnice: the story should have started by the end of the first chapter--heck, preferably by the end of the first paragraph. And if it didn't, well, I must paraphrase one of the mischievous kittens you might have seen online:
Your mileage may vary.

Still, with the number and breadth of stories on this site, I don't see why the best thing for a disappointed reader to do is just move on, gravitating at the better authors, who they will eventually find. There are a lot of those here too.

It's not the reader's "duty" to improve anyone's writing/storytelling here--these are all volunteer authors posting free reads. As already noted, there's a very broad spectrum of what readers are looking for, and a single reader isn't the keeper of what others want to read. And, who's to say that the reader has any better knowledge of what is "good" in writing than the original author does? This isn't a story critique site.

 

[JoshuaGlynn]

It seems as if many of the stories I click to read are missing something, like a story. The idea may be there, but writers need to know they cannot just start a series with a large intro and then wait for chapter 2 to get into the real meat of the story. You must capture your reader with the first few paragraphs or else they may just click off.

Ok I can understand if you are talking about it taking that long to get into the "story". One of the first rules of writing is Show, not Tell. A lot of authors get into the trap of the "info dump". Hell I have done it myself in one of my first stories. First person stories can get away with some of that, because it is a Character relaying his story. But still, normally you want something early to catch the readers attention, usually within the first few paragraphs.

I'm a firm believer in Story first, Sex is a bonus. Sure there is JO material out there, and that is fine. But a good story has to have a plot, and has to have conflict of some sort, or it is just dull.

Just my $0.02

Joshua

 

[AchtungNight]

I agree with pretty much everything said here so far. I feel I should add that sometimes exposition can be necessary for a story. Long disclaimers too, especially in my genre. I've been writing lots of both for a while and I think I've done pretty well so far. If you agree or disagree, please feel free to drop me a line.

 

[Shwenn]

Ok I can understand if you are talking about it taking that long to get into the "story". One of the first rules of writing is Show, not Tell. A lot of authors get into the trap of the "info dump". Hell I have done it myself in one of my first stories.

I completely agree with this.

You really need to tell the exposition the way you tell the story itself.

I see a lot of writers handle the exposition by recounting events as though they are testifying at a trial. Just the facts, ma'am.

I understand the thinking behind it. Nothing terribly exciting is happening so you want to get it over with quickly. But, as a reader, I much prefer a long, well written exposition to a short, crappy one.

And I usually write for my own tastes.

 

[Lady_Fiona]

I dont feel I have written adequately enough if there is no story.

 

[loganforester]

I dont feel I have written adequately enough if there is no story.

What's the point of writing at all if their is no story? Isn't that the objective, to tell a story?

 

[oggbashan]

What's the point of writing at all if their is no story? Isn't that the objective, to tell a story?

Not necessarily if the intention is to write erotica and nothing else.

Many stories on Literotica are just scenes - sexual scenes that may, or may not, trigger an erotic response.

Some readers prefer direct sex scenes that titillate them.

Other readers prefer those scenes as part of a story with a plot.

And then there are some who can find the sexual innuendo in a story that has no overt sex.

Literotica has a vast range of stories. Intelligent use of the Search function can help to find an author that suits you. Once you have found one story by that author, then reading some of their other stories can be more rewarding than a random search.

Of course, as an author, I reserve the right to be unpredictable. I don't expect anyone to like all of my stories.

Og

 

[CWatson]

Still, with the number and breadth of stories on this site, I don't see why the best thing for a disappointed reader to do is just move on, gravitating at the better authors, who they will eventually find. There are a lot of those here too.

It's not the reader's "duty" to improve anyone's writing/storytelling here--these are all volunteer authors posting free reads. As already noted, there's a very broad spectrum of what readers are looking for, and a single reader isn't the keeper of what others want to read. And, who's to say that the reader has any better knowledge of what is "good" in writing than the original author does? This isn't a story critique site.

No, it isn't. But OP is complaining. S/he (I think it's a he) wants things done differently on this site. Which is a legitimate desire. In cases like this, I prefer to quote a very wise crab: "You wan' someting done, you gadda do it yoself."

(2¢)

 

[sr71plt]

No, it isn't. But OP is complaining. S/he (I think it's a he) wants things done differently on this site. Which is a legitimate desire. In cases like this, I prefer to quote a very wise crab: "You wan' someting done, you gadda do it yoself."

(2¢)

This would be a really good time for sugarisnice to PM that view to Laurel, then--over night on the AH thread, Laurel suggests that readers just want more.

 

[hotti]

I think that most authors here will 'evolve' over time, from writing a stroke piece that's 503 words - very short and hot and en pointe, to longer and more involved tales where sex is still the whipped cream, but it isn't the whole pie.

Personally, that's what I look for in those authors I read. I enjoy taking a peek at a "long time reader, first time poster" , then going back and reading the subsequent stories they post. When there's growth, evolution, that's when I'll post my feedback.

It is frustrating to have to wade through fifty stories that for one reason or another piss you off, just to find one that you can enjoy... but think about this: how will we learn if we can't learn by experience?

Besides, for every person out there who wishes there was more talent or more style, or more people refraining from posting their drivel, there is at least one - but probably more than just one - person who enjoys what's offered.

The stories that I've posted have gotten mixed reactions, which I find funny. My earliest stuff was admittedly purely stroke-stuff, and I got feedback from folks who liked it as is, and from folks who wanted something more to it. My newest stuff (admittedly it's old now, since I haven't posted in a wee), has gotten "too many words, blah blah blah" mixed with "one of the best stories... character development and plot (!) and not just straight shagging all the time". So, what do I take away from my feedback?

To quote some forgotten person in some long forgotten show, "Ya can't save 'em all, Hasselhoff!" (which I take to mean that one can't please everybody all the time...)

I just write for me, and I post because I'm human and want to share it and have someone, anyone, take notice and maybe even admire my skills, such as they are.

But to the OP, you have to take the bad with the good, otherwise, how will you know the difference?

 

[sugarisnice]

I seem to have started a little debate. Good. I think stories posted on Literotica should have to have a start, middle and end, so the reader feels satisfied when they are done reading the story.

There are some stories that never get to the end in the first chapter. The end being there is some sexual situation for the reader to enjoy, just the introduction to what could happen in the next chapter. Stories have to be self-contained even if they are in a series. Many older stories do this and some new ones, too, but there are way, way too many stories with interesting titles, interesting starts, and no ending.

I am not saying all my stories are great. Some stink. I know it. I am most proud of some stories I wrote that don't get that many views. That's OK. I know they are stories that can sit by themselves as well as work into a series.

 

[hotti]

Yes, I agree they should have all those things too, but even if they don't have an "ending", it's okay with me if it's a cliff-hanger style that segues into the next chapter in a logical spot.

It takes practice to know how to end a story. I've read novels and watched movies that didn't "end" - and it seemed like the writer ran out of space/time/money/interest... so for amateur writers to do the same is forgivable, in my opinion. Until they learn

 

[AsylumSeeker]

I happen to agree

It seems as if many of the stories I click to read are missing something, like a story. The idea may be there, but writers need to know they cannot just start a series with a large intro and then wait for chapter 2 to get into the real meat of the story. You must capture your reader with the first few paragraphs or else they may just click off.

So I'm wondering why this is being posted in the Editor forum versus the Author forum, where one would assume it would be a better fit?

But here it is, so Ill make an assumption that editors are supposed to be the answer? Or that there's so much drivel on the Author's forum that any serious contribution gets lost in the senseless noise? That's been my experience at any rate.

As a writer I do try and engage the readers, building a plot and characters that are both believable and interesting. And based on various forms of feedback I have been commended at having succeeded at this. I draw out my stories over numerous chapters, making the readers wait and anticipate the final "sex act" that is building, and some appreciate that aspect.

Of course many writers don't bother going through an editor and manage to push their crap through an overburdened system, something that many of us frown on, but what can we really do?

There is no "best" answer, but I'll offer links to my 168 stories. Many are incest, but many more are "true" Loving Wives, First Time, Mature, Erotic Horror, Celebrity (real CSI stories with crimes to be solved), and others. I'm sure you'll find some to be enjoyable reads, AND WITH REAL PLOTS!

http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=479657&page=submissions

Not trying to push my stories, just trying to bring to light some that may have been missed.