Freedoms

[GuiltyCowboy]

Which of these freedoms do you support?

- Free speech
- Free movement of people
- Free movement of money

Justify your choice: if you agree with some types of freedom but not others, please explain the differences.

Edit:
- free speech means that the state does not make it illegal to say what you want.
- free movement of money allows capital to cross borders without restriction

 

[RoryN]

I like the question but, if ever definitions needed to be stated clearly at the onset, it would be for those freedoms.

(Spoiler alert: you'll get wide disagreement on the definitions.)

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Which of these freedoms do you support?

- Free speech
- Free movement of people
- Free movement of money

Justify your choice: if you agree with some types of freedom but not others, please explain the differences.

What is the “free movement of money”?

I support freedom for human beings, but money is a tool. It has no rights.

You might as well ask if I support freedom of movement for cars … or fire …

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

What is the “free movement of money”?

I support freedom for human beings, but money is a tool. It has no rights.

You might as well ask if I support freedom of movement for cars … or fire …

The free movement of money refers to the ability to move money across borders without restriction. In essence, should capital be allowed to go wherever it wants?

Maynard Keynes, for example, disgreed strongly with the concept and was a key architect of the Bretton Woods system, which restricted the movement of capital for about 30 years in the wake of WW2.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

The free movement of money refers to the ability to move money across borders without restriction. In essence, should capital be allowed to go wherever it wants?

Maynard Keynes, for example, disgreed strongly with the concept and was a key architect of the Bretton Woods system, which restricted the movement of capital for about 30 years in the wake of WW2.

“Capital” has no rights, so allowing free movement of money seems like a really stupid idea. It’s an invitation to criminality and oligarchy.

I want to see the free movement of people across borders and a tight crackdown on moving money. Disband multinational corporations.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

I like the question but, if ever definitions needed to be stated clearly at the onset, it would be for those freedoms.

(Spoiler alert: you'll get wide disagreement on the definitions.)

In my imagination, the wrangling over the potential constraints to each freedom is what defines each of them. Am I wrong? What would be an example of conflicting definitions for those types of freedom?

 

[latecomer91364]

“Capital” has no rights, so allowing free movement of money seems like a really stupid idea. It’s an invitation to criminality and oligarchy.

I want to see the free movement of people across borders and a tight crackdown on moving money. Disband multinational corporations.

You obviously fail (on purpose) to understand that it's not about 'capital' having rights, it's about the rights of people to use capital how they see fit.

Maybe be once an illegal alien rapes or murders someone you hold dear (LOL) you'll see the errors of your asshole views.

Dumb cunt.

 

[RoryN]

What would be an example of conflicting definitions for those types of freedom?

"Freedom of speech!"
"Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences for certain speech."
"That's exactly what it means!"
"Um, no."

(That'll likely be the first one...)

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You obviously fail (on purpose) to understand that it's not about 'capital' having rights, it's about the rights of people to use capital how they see fit.

Maybe be once an illegal alien rapes or murders someone you hold dear (LOL) you'll see the errors of your asshole views.

Dumb cunt.

The billionaire class has demonstrated they’re poor custodians of the capital they’ve been entrusted with. One person should never be handed that much power.

So let’s take most of it away and vote on how it should be used instead. No more rocketships to Mars. No more breakdancing robots. No more rape parties on private islands.

 

[latecomer91364]

The billionaire class has demonstrated they’re poor custodians of the capital they’ve been entrusted with. One person should never be handed that much power.

So let’s take most of it away and vote on how it should be used instead. No more rocketships to Mars. No more breakdancing robots. No more rape parties on private islands.

Dumb fucking Marxist cunt. Most of the billionaires back Dems, stupid.

Ask your billionaires and Dem pals about having rape parties on private islands.

Go fuck yourself.

 

[ll74]

Lmao

 

[Wilson23]

Treatment of money as speech.
https://forum.literotica.com/threads/make-all-campaign-spending-illegal-money-is-not-speech.1646885/

 

[Wilson23]

Dumb fucking Marxist cunt. Most of the billionaires back Dems, stupid.

Exactly. That's how we know the Dems ain't leftist. Nothing is leftist unless its success would be a threat to the plutocracy.

 

[latecomer91364]

Exactly. That's how we know the Dems ain't leftist. Nothing is leftist unless its success would be a threat to the plutocracy.

LOL! You're such a nincompoop...

 

[Wilson23]

LOL! You're such a nincompoop...

I'm not wrong.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Dumb fucking Marxist cunt. Most of the billionaires back Dems, stupid.

Ask your billionaires and Dem pals about having rape parties on private islands.

Go fuck yourself.

You voted for Trump. Your opinion is worthless.

 

[latecomer91364]

You voted for Trump. Your opinion is worthless.

Hahahaha! Standard 'nothing' Leftfuck response.

You wouldn't even have an opinion if somebody else didn't feed it to you like a helpless baby bird.

Dumb fucking cunt.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

Hahahaha! Standard 'nothing' Leftfuck response.

You wouldn't even have an opinion if somebody else didn't feed it to you like a helpless baby bird.

Dumb fucking cunt.

Construct an argument justifying the "freedom of money" and I'll shoot it down.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

Construct an argument justifying the "freedom of money" and I'll shoot it down.

You have spent 40 years working and saving. You own your own company and property. A dictatorship takes control of your country. Your country’s economy and the value of its currency collapses. You are part of a persecuted minority and deemed a political enemy of the state. Would you like the option of moving your life savings to a safe country? Or would you like that decision left in the hands of the people who control your state?

That’s obviously a scenario that millions of families have faced over the last hundred years or so.

 

[AnAmericanDarling]

Dumb fucking Marxist cunt. Most of the billionaires back Dems, stupid.

Ask your billionaires and Dem pals about having rape parties on private islands.

Go fuck yourself.

If the "billionaires back Dems" then how do you explain Elon Musk's $250 million contribution to the Trump campaign in 2024? Hmm? I think you've got your facts confused, sweetie.

 

[BrightShinyGirl]

You have spent 40 years working and saving. You own your own company and property. A dictatorship takes control of your country. Your country’s economy and the value of its currency collapses. You are part of a persecuted minority and deemed a political enemy of the state. Would you like the option of moving your life savings to a safe country? Or would you like that decision left in the hands of the people who control your state?

That’s obviously a scenario that millions of families have faced over the last hundred years or so.

The old-fashioned way to handle this is jewels sewn into the lining of your clothes. There are ways to deal with extreme scenarios without letting crooks move large sums of money around without any restrictions.

This is like arguing we shouldn’t have traffic laws because someone might need to flee from a rioting mob.

 

[SebastianHolt]

Which of these freedoms do you support?

- Free speech
- Free movement of people
- Free movement of money

Justify your choice: if you agree with some types of freedom but not others, please explain the differences.

Edit:
- free speech means that the state does not make it illegal to say what you want.
- free movement of money allows capital to cross borders without restriction

, the government has zero right to monitor citizens and what they do with their money

 

[Chernosoth]

As control systems break down, they tend to seek tighter control over shrinking areas and percentages of the population. Freedom is becoming less of an abstract concept and more "you're on your own, good luck out there" for a growing part of the nation. Consequences can be harsh for failing to understand changes and trends in climate, employment, social order, etc. Americans may eventually comprehend teamwork that includes the planet as the boss of the team.

Money freedom becomes a moot point when nobody has money or money is worthless. Barter tends to highlight what people need and the real value of labor and merchandise.
Migration freedom will meet limits of what regions can support. People fleeing from islands becoming submerged won't have a better time in lands already overpopulated. From tropical islands to barely habitable and slowly warming parts of Alaska, Canada, and Russia would be a harsh adjustment, but that may be typical of where people can go to find empty land.

 

[Chernosoth]

Internet operating expenses and bot software are consolidating internet speech into mostly bot speech. Speech is still free outside the internet. We are free to say "watch where you're going" to the guy looking down at his phone.

 

[GuiltyCowboy]

The old-fashioned way to handle this is jewels sewn into the lining of your clothes. There are ways to deal with extreme scenarios without letting crooks move large sums of money around without any restrictions.

This is like arguing we shouldn’t have traffic laws because someone might need to flee from a rioting mob.

Well, quite. Jewels, wine, paintings, whatever...it's wise to diversify. I personally agree with tight controls over the flow of capital but I'm just pointing out that there are legitimate arguments against.

As almost almost always, the best solutions are a question of degree, not absolutely one thing or the other.