Fort Dix: Video Store Clerks! Pizzerias! Jihad!

[3113]

I'm taking this seriously, I really am. But am I the only one who feels like this reads a bit like a Bevis and Butthead cartoon?:

Prosecutors say a video store clerk's tip was key to foiling Fort Dix terror plot

FORT DIX, New Jersey - A video store clerk is being credited with tipping off authorities to six foreign-born Muslims accused of planning to assault the Fort Dix Army base and slaughter U.S. soldiers with automatic weapons and rocket-propelled grenades.

The unidentified clerk alerted authorities in January 2006 after one of the suspects asked him to transfer a video to DVD that showed 10 men shooting weapons at a firing range and calling for jihad, prosecutors said.

"If we didn't get that tip," said U.S. Attorney Christopher Christie on Tuesday, "I couldn't be sure what would happen." FBI agent J.P. Weis called the clerk the "unsung hero" of the case.

Authorities said there was no direct evidence connecting the men to any international terror organizations such as al-Qaida. But several of them said they were ready to kill and die "in the name of Allah," prosecutors said in court papers.

Weis said the U.S. is seeing a "brand-new form of terrorism," involving smaller, more loosely defined groups that may not be connected to al-Qaida but are inspired by its ideology. "These homegrown terrorists can prove to be as dangerous as any known group, if not more so. They operate under the radar," Weis said.

Four of the arrested men were ethnic Albanians born in the former Yugoslavia, one was born in Jordan and one came from Turkey, authorities said. Three were in the United States illegally; two had green cards allowing them to stay in this country permanently; and the sixth is a U.S. citizen.

...One of the suspects, Tatar, worked at his father's pizzeria - Super Mario's Restaurant - in Cookstown and made deliveries to the base, using the opportunity to scout out Fort Dix for an attack, authorities said. "Clearly, one of the guys had an intimate knowledge of the base from having been there delivering pizzas," Christie said.

Tatar's father, Muslim Tatar, 54, said the accusations against his son were hard to accept. "He is not a terrorist. I am not a terrorist," he told The Star-Ledger of Newark.

The elder Tatar told ABC News he had gotten no indication his son harbored a deep hatred of the United States. "I came here from Turkey in 1992, and this is my country. I love this country," Muslim Tatar told ABC.

The group often watched terror training videos, clips featuring Osama bin Laden, a tape containing the last will and testament of some of the Sept. 11 hijackers, and tapes of armed attacks on U.S. military personnel, authorities said.

The men trained by playing paintball in the woods in New Jersey and taking target practice at a firing range in Pennsylvania's Pocono Mountains, where they had rented a house, authorities said.

"We believe they are their own cell," said Christie. "They are inspired by international terror organizations. I believe they saw themselves as part of that."

...In addition to plotting the attack on Fort Dix, the defendants spoke of assaulting a Navy installation in Philadelphia during the annual Army-Navy football game and conducted surveillance at other military installations in the region, prosecutors said.

After the video clerk's tip, investigators said they infiltrated the group with two informants and bided their time while they secretly recorded the defendants. The six were arrested Monday night trying to buy AK-47 assault weapons, M-16s and other weapons from an FBI informant, authorities said. It was not clear when the alleged attack was to take place.

"We had a group that was forming a platoon to take on an army. They identified their target, they did their reconnaissance. They had maps. And they were in the process of buying weapons. Luckily, we were able to stop that," said Weis.

So, let me see if I understand this...a guy who delivers pizza decided that the best way to make a statement and terrorize the U.S. would be to attack...a Military base? To get ready for this, he and his buddies bought all kinds of weapons and engaged in paintball. And as the icing on the cake, they asked that a video clerk to transfer video of men shooting and screaming for Jihad to DVD.

I'm not saying this wasn't a very serious thing...but as a writer I have to wonder...didn't any of these guys stop and say, "You know, as plans to bring down the U.S. go, this is really kinda stupid..."?

 

[rgraham666]

When God, Allah to Zeus, take your pick, is on your side nothing is a bad idea.

 

[oggbashan]

The trial of the July 21 bombers in the UK revealed that their thinking wasn't out of the top drawer. Recorded conversations played in court sound like drunken teenagers planning a pantie raid, something like this:

"Wouldn't it be great if we could blow up the electricity grid, and muck about with the water supply at the same time..."

"Yeah..."

These were the guys whose bombs went Pfft! because they hadn't read their instruction leaflet properly.

Their chances of causing an electrical blackout were about the same as Beavis and Butthead's.

Og

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Vaguely related - Dalrymple on Steyn:

"The alarmist predictions of Islamization depend upon the supposition that the populations of Islamic origin in Western Europe will not change in their allegiance to Islam, and of course this is debatable. Many of the children (or sons, to be precise) of the North Africans who were brought in to France during the 1960s and '70s favor jihad . . . they have assimilated to Western culture at least to the extent of having adopted the menacing dumb insolence of American ghetto-dwellers. . . . the worst of Islamic culture has been successfully combined with the worst of Western culture, in what is a multiculturalist equivalent of the Black Mass."

 

[sutherngent985]

I'm not saying this wasn't a very serious thing...but as a writer I have to wonder...didn't any of these guys stop and say, "You know, as plans to bring down the U.S. go, this is really kinda stupid..."?

They are terrorists...we ain't talking the sharpest knives in the drawer here. I mean these people blow themselves up or otherwise commit suicide. They don't need guns...they need therapy.

 

[Weird Harold]

Their chances of causing an electrical blackout were about the same as Beavis and Butthead's.

Sounds more like B&B would have a better chance of causing a blackout by accident than those guys would on purpose.

So, let me see if I understand this...a guy who delivers pizza decided that the best way to make a statement and terrorize the U.S. would be to attack...a Military base?

They might not be the brighest bulbs in the sting, but at least they picked a military target(s) instead of a civilian target(s)s like the OKC bombing or WTC.

What's even more surprising to me, is that they apparently intended to survive and escape to attack multiple miliary bases!

 

[R. Richard]

I'm taking this seriously, I really am. But am I the only one who feels like this reads a bit like a Bevis and Butthead cartoon?:

So, let me see if I understand this...a guy who delivers pizza decided that the best way to make a statement and terrorize the U.S. would be to attack...a Military base? To get ready for this, he and his buddies bought all kinds of weapons and engaged in paintball. And as the icing on the cake, they asked that a video clerk to transfer video of men shooting and screaming for Jihad to DVD.

I'm not saying this wasn't a very serious thing...but as a writer I have to wonder...didn't any of these guys stop and say, "You know, as plans to bring down the U.S. go, this is really kinda stupid..."?

I think that the US should consider exiling the whould-be jihadis to someplace like the Gaza Strip or South Lebanon. The US needs to get these guy's genes into the radical Islamist gene pool.

 

[JamesSD]

If only the "real" terrorist organizations were so disorganized and stupid...

 

[SeaCat]

Actually one part of this is brilliant. Using the guise of a delivery person to Recon an attack sight is perfect. Who looks twice at the guy or gal delivering Pizzas or Chinese Food?

Cat

 

[elsol]

Actually one part of this is brilliant. Using the guise of a delivery person to Recon an attack sight is perfect. Who looks twice at the guy or gal delivering Pizzas or Chinese Food?

Cat

I do.

But I hate delivery people...

----

Anyway... who would've thought we'd be cheering for stupidity!

 

[rgraham666]

Why not? A lot of people once cheered for the Shrub. Some still do.

 

[Huckleman2000]

There also seems to be more than a hint of entrapment in the role the government informant played in helping arrange the planned attack. Back in November one of the plotters called a Philly police officer and told him that he'd been approached by someone [i.e., the government informant] "who was pressuring him to obtain a map of Fort Dix, and that he feared the incident was terrorist-related."


So the FBI infiltrate this "terrorist cell", and the "terrorists" report the FBI to themselves?

The only words that come to mind are "circle jerk".

 

[R. Richard]

Actually one part of this is brilliant. Using the guise of a delivery person to Recon an attack sight is perfect. Who looks twice at the guy or gal delivering Pizzas or Chinese Food?

Cat

Some years back a guy I worked with was given a tour of a military base and he was shown the outside of a 'war room.' He was told that the room was so highly classified that only six people on the base had access to the inside. The guy asked the obvious question, "Which one of the six cleans the toilets and sweeps it up at night?" According to the guy, you could see on the faces of the people giving the tour that, well of course janitors go in there at night, but they are just janitors. How could a janitor possibly know anything about classified information?

 

[mikey2much]

It is the same tactics that gave us Ruby Ridge

Ok , so some alert guy sees something that looks fishy , so he reports it to the FBI, They then get a guy on the inside who urges the group to listen to the fbi guy who is trying to sell them weapons. Suddenly you have a case against these young men who would never done anything if left alone.

This is entrapment. This is not something that should be happening in the America that I love. This is the 'new' America that elected George Bush and his sort to lead them. Real Americans, Those who beleive in life and liberty, and justice for all, would not stand for this sort of shit.

It stands as a sad statement of where we are at in our own history.

mikey

 

[oggbashan]

Some years back a guy I worked with was given a tour of a military base and he was shown the outside of a 'war room.' He was told that the room was so highly classified that only six people on the base had access to the inside. The guy asked the obvious question, "Which one of the six cleans the toilets and sweeps it up at night?" According to the guy, you could see on the faces of the people giving the tour that, well of course janitors go in there at night, but they are just janitors. How could a janitor possibly know anything about classified information?

From my ancient memories, a similar site in the UK had to be cleaned and serviced by "officers only". There was no problem in getting it done. The officers were married and had to do similar tasks at home. Cleaning the toilets was by rota so that no one had to do it more often than about once every six weeks.

Less sensitive areas were cleaned and serviced by long service non-comms.

Og

 

[3113]

They are terrorists...we ain't talking the sharpest knives in the drawer here. I mean these people blow themselves up or otherwise commit suicide. They don't need guns...they need therapy.

Well, but that's the thing. I don't know that these guys *are* terrorists--at least not how we'd define them given the examples in Iraq, Israel or even 9/11.

As pointed out, they apparently thought they were going to go in, shoot the place up (paintball guys vs. trained soldiers?), get away and do it again. So, this wasn't like they were walking in ready to blow themselves up. They sound like stupid kids, not culturally created sociopaths.

 

[R. Richard]

From my ancient memories, a similar site in the UK had to be cleaned and serviced by "officers only". There was no problem in getting it done. The officers were married and had to do similar tasks at home. Cleaning the toilets was by rota so that no one had to do it more often than about once every six weeks.

Less sensitive areas were cleaned and serviced by long service non-comms.

Og

The 'war room' in question was serviced by non-coms after the embarrassing question. The point was that the people who ran a supposedly secure area had no clue as to who actually had access to the area.

 

[R. Richard]

Well, but that's the thing. I don't know that these guys *are* terrorists--at least not how we'd define them given the examples in Iraq, Israel or even 9/11.

As pointed out, they apparently thought they were going to go in, shoot the place up (paintball guys vs. trained soldiers?), get away and do it again. So, this wasn't like they were walking in ready to blow themselves up. They sound like stupid kids, not culturally created sociopaths.

There was this insane kid named Cho who thought he would just go in and 'shoot the place up.' I don't know if he was stupid but he was damn sure a sociopath.

 

[OhMissScarlett]

This job would be great, if it wasn't for the fucking customers.
-Randal, from the movie Clerks

 

[sutherngent985]

I'm taking this seriously, I really am. But am I the only one who feels like this reads a bit like a Bevis and Butthead cartoon?

I don't think Beavis and Butthead would be this stupid....

 

[sutherngent985]

Some years back a guy I worked with was given a tour of a military base and he was shown the outside of a 'war room.' He was told that the room was so highly classified that only six people on the base had access to the inside. The guy asked the obvious question, "Which one of the six cleans the toilets and sweeps it up at night?" According to the guy, you could see on the faces of the people giving the tour that, well of course janitors go in there at night, but they are just janitors. How could a janitor possibly know anything about classified information?

Only in the US would someone be so stupid as to think just because a person isn't trained or in the military they are too stupid to know whats going on.