Formal Dom Training

[Kajira Callista]

Is it something you would do, have done, or think all Doms should do?

 

[@}-}rebecca----]

KC genuinely I ask , how are you defining 'Formal Dom Training' what would be the structure / philosophy /model our opinions and also poll votes were based on please......

 

[Richard49]

For me
formal training was to serve under a dom as a submissive for one year
in my case it was a Dom and Domme couple

(psst ... she was a hell of lot more rough than he)

 

[SweetDommes]

As posted in the thread that originated this question - we didn't have the opportunity for any type of mentorship. I'm not sure how long it would have lasted even if we had been given the opportunity, but since it wasn't there ... we'll never know, now will we?

At this point, I've seen just as many who have claimed "I trained at XYZ in Europe/Asia/BFE for ABC years/months/decades" who were idiots, as those who have freely admitted that they were self-taught.

As with anything else, from different hobbies to military service to going to college - it works for some people and not for others. Military service is not for me, but I have the utmost respect for those who have served. Going to college was for me, but I totally understand why it isn't for everyone and don't look down on anyone who hasn't gone. Doing mentorships in WIIWD works for some, not for others. For those that it has worked for - great for you ... but keep in mind that different people think and work in different ways, so it isn't for everyone.

 

[O'Mac]

Hey Kajira! Long time, no see.

To answer your question, I think formal training is actually a pretty good idea, if only for people to understand the basics of Domination. While I would rather teach myself particular techniques for bondage, whipping, and gagging, some of the more rudimentary but vital aspects such as first aid knowledge would be best learned in a more structured and formal environment.

 

[raven2]

I am not experienced enough in this field to make an educated statement on this question. I replied that I would do it because I feel that the oportunity to learn from more experienced individuals should never be ignored. I have been a teacher for many years and I also train in people to be teachers and instructors. I have realized that what I take as obvious and second nature, most of my students have no clue about until I bring it to their attention.

 

[Kajira Callista]

KC genuinely I ask , how are you defining 'Formal Dom Training' what would be the structure / philosophy /model our opinions and also poll votes were based on please......

I started the thread because it was mentioned on another thread. I dont know what Formal Dom Training entails but im betting we will find out a bit more on this thread.

 

[alice_underneath]

To answer your question, I think formal training is actually a pretty good idea, if only for people to understand the basics of Domination. While I would rather teach myself particular techniques for bondage, whipping, and gagging, some of the more rudimentary but vital aspects such as first aid knowledge would be best learned in a more strucutred and formal environment.

Sometimes I get confused, because people seem to be using the term 'Dominant' and 'sadist' interchangeably.

I understand why classes or formal training in the use of whips/canes/etc. is a good idea for sadists, but not all Dominants are interested in using these tools.

Which prompts the question.... what would formal training for a nonsadistic Dominant entail?

For me formal training was to serve under a dom as a submissive for one year in my case it was a Dom and Domme couple

Richard,

I am interested to know the goal of your training.

Were you spending time in the role of a masochist, in order to understand how it feels to have a sadist standing over you with a whip?

Were you spending time as a manservant of sorts, in order to understand how it feels to be subservient in this way, and what is reasonable to expect of a slave?

Were you spending time learning details or protocols of a specific culture.... i.e., the 'proper' way to kneel, respond politely, etc?

In your opinion, what type of Dominant would benefit from your type of training?

 

[Netzach]

I had a formal mentor for about a year. He encouraged me to come into the community as a switch and to explore all activities and all options before me and to not discount anything as a possibility and something pleasureable or useful to me. He taught me to respect the myriad ways that people have of doing things, the fact that there is no one agreed right way, and how to walk in the community as an open-minded and respectable person.

I chose to bottom more often than top when I started out, but I remained in touch with the degree of pleasure and rightness that Dominance and ownership ultimately held for me.

He encouraged me to think about what I was doing at each step and he taught me some basic skills, but much more important were the aforementioned subjects than any physical skills he passed along.

I also spent about 2 years active in a Leather club, going from the process of pledge to member, a situation with some formality to it.

My training has been loosely formal, (as much as you're going to get in the Midwest anyhow) and largely informal. Both kinds of learning are valuable to me. I also don't think of myself as "trained" and done. There is always something to learn and someone to learn from, even as people begin to approach me to learn.

 

[Luna_Wolf72]

My training

Started out as a submissive..trained under one Mistress for 3 years. This same woman introduced me to switching and finally intro'd me to someone who was willing to work with/teach me as a dominant.

Of course most of what I learned concerned technique: caning, proper cat placement, procedures. Having a basis for how I felt when I was the bottom gave me an edge when it came to learning how to read what my submissives need.

So yea, I do believe some sort of training should be the rule, not the exception.

 

[lust4us]

I think Dom training would be useful. For instance I got many of my ideas on how to be a better Dom from reading Female Domiation stories in Penthouse Variations, over years. My husband, who is a switch but a slave for me, would also read it and point out things that turned him on. Regretably there really isn't any real movies that you can buy. One's that show a Dom working over their sub and both having great sex because of it. I also don't get how people go to Pro Dom's and don't have sex? But that's just me! I do it because it makes my/our sex life better. Call me stupid but I thought sex was what is still all about? I have read where guys have become impotent and just like being ordered around and being a slave. But what is wrong with his/her tongue? I am lucky, my husband has a big fat cock. But he also has a fucking lizard tongue! Don't these guys/gals still like servicing there Dom's with their mouths and tongues? And why wouldn't a real Dom not want to get the greatest nut of her/his life everytime she/he is toping their slave? I guess one of the reasons why we all need avenues of direction readily available to us is, because in today's society it is so taboo to come out and say you are into BDSM. My personal belief is that every woman alive and every man alive have some thoughts of either being a dom or a sub or both! Any way so much for my pontificating. I hope I haven't offended anyone. That is surely not my purpose. Also I hope I haven't gone off thread too much. I haven't been able to post a link as of yet but if any of you Dom's and subs out there are interested in an interesting story, my husband just had his first story published on Lit. I think it is great, but then again I am a bit bias! The name of the story is "The Recipe for a Great Time"

 

[nusubgurl]

i have mentioned that i belong to SAADE in Austin...Society for the Advancement of American Dominance Education.

It is an educational group, with a one year mentorship program from Doms. You can read more about it at www.houseofsaade.com

Switches in Dom mode also participate in the program, and submissives have their time in the classroom sharing feedback and serving as demo bottoms

Plus, we have educational meetings every month covering topics, recently: safe calls, hypnosis, sounds play, dungeon safety, internet dating, etc, etc.

And we have play parties !!!!!!!!

 

[RJMasters]

For what its worth.

I don't think training to be a Dom or Domme is something that can be done or is necessary. I think if you wish to be an experienced practitioner of "BDSM activities", then yes training is a must.

Mentorship IMO is the way to go when it comes to imparting understanding as to what or who a Dom or Domme is/are. This can be done in many ways and take on many forms.

One method Richard mentioned, was to become a Dom/Domme one would have to serve as a submissive for 1 year. This of course follows the philosophy of you need to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes in order to understand where they are coming from. This of course should impart a type of dominance, which does not come from ignorance, but a fuller understanding of both dominance and submission. Another element I see added into this style of training seems to be “earning” and “being recognized”. Meaning simply that yes you did serve 1 year and so earned through time and effort…and after that time was then recognized by those who already have an established and respected reputation. In short credentials and references.

It should be noted however, that such a method described above has just as many negatives and shortcomings as it does have benefits. Not looking at it from a balanced perspective in my opinion would be an injustice.

Another form of formal training, which I have seen spoken of lately is more like a school-type of training from an institution. I don’t have any experience to say one way or another about this type of approach. It could be very good or very poor depending on the institution itself and those who are teaching. Again I see this as an opportunity for someone to learn, but there seems yet again this idea of credentials and references. The, “I graduated from the school of…..” and here is my diploma to prove it.

The problem I have here is that you see the same thing in the world when it comes to hiring someone for a job. The question is, would you hire someone who can do the job or someone holding a piece of paper that says they can do the job. Do any of us really wish to adopt a mentality that says I am not even going to grant interviews unless a person has the piece of paper to begin with?

What I really feel is missing in all of this is something so simple and yet seems to have been lost in the shuffle of searching for accreditation, its called happiness.

For Pete sakes. There should really only be one motivation behind all of this and that is your own happiness. I have seen people who are new and are seeking something that is missing in their life. They are not sure if D/s or if BDSM activities are what they are looking for. That is where a good mentor should step in and help them.

HELP THEM TO WHAT?

Help them discover what makes them happy. What brings joy to them. What satisfies and fulfills them. A good mentor doesn’t tell a person they are dominant or submissive, they let that person come to a decision on their own. They don’t take a dominant person and force them to be a submissive for one year. They don’t take a submissive person and force them to be a dominant for one year. A good mentor helps the person to keep an open mind and learn and experience things as a means of self-discovery. To learn more about themselves, SO THAT once they learn this, they then can find expression of it that brings fulfillment.

Knowing how to use a cane does not make anyone a Dom or Domme. So NO amount of training of these BDSM types of skills will result in a person being a better or worst Dominant or submissive. If this were true, then let’s make up a job description right now and list all the skills necessary to be a Dom or Domme and start handing out diplomas.

I am not against or feel negative towards learning these types of skills….and if given the chance I would jump at the chance to learn many of them. Not because I want some diploma, but because I have a great desire to want to learn these things and to experience them.

Could I last a year under a mentorship that encouraged me to have an open mind and encouraged self-discovery? Yes. At the end of that time will I have a better understanding of my own nature? Yes. Will I then be able to start expressing that nature, experiencing the results of that and grow? Yes.

Could I last a year forced to be a submissive, with the hopes that if I am a good enough submissive, the dominants in charge of me will grant me special status. Not just no, but fuck no. Inside of 3 months one of us would be dead. Because of the amount or degree of respect I have for Shadowsdream, Lady Kouka or Netzach I could easily see myself spending a year learning from them, and benefiting from taking part in the various experiences they do. I could even take on a subordinate role in order to have that kind of opportunity. But if any of them ever told me to get on my knees and lick their boots…they might as well call the fucking ambulance now, because they would have to beat me to death before I would submit to that.

Just because I held up a piece of paper that says I graduated from the School of Proper Caning, would any of you take that at face value and let me cane you? Get real.

In the final analysis, the only real accreditation one can get is how he or she expresses himself or herself to each and every person they meet. Not in a show of being dominant or submissive, but in an expression of who they are naturally.

I will agree that the title of Dom or Domme is not something one takes for themselves, it is a title of respect for a dominant type person that is given to them by someone who respects them enough to call them their Sir or Maam. In fact, in my narrow definition of the title of Dom or Domme, a person cannot hold that title unless they currently are in a relationship with a submissive. A person who once had a relationship can say I know what it is like to be a Dom/Domme or that I have 20 years experience being a Dom/Domme. It is very much like claiming to be a husband or a wife. “if” you are married, then you can claim that title, but if you get divorced, you can no longer say I “am” a husband or wife.

I don’t aspire to claim the title of Dom, I aspire to be the best possible me I can be. I learn about BDSM activities not because it makes me a more skillful Dom, but because I am one kinky sob.

The only exception I feel to a person taking the title of Dom or Domme for themselves is if they are going to be a Professional Dom or Domme. Then they best have their shit together and have a wide range of training that is associated with BDSM activities.

Ok enough rambling. I think this is a semantics minefield.

 

[bridgeburner]

I don't know how else you're going to safely learn how to use a bullwhip on someone than to be taught how to do so. However, there are seminars and clubs and classes and friends willing to show you stuff and I wouldn't say that any of that amounts to formal training which implies a pre-planned course of study with specific mile-posts if not an actual terminal point.

I'm not the kind of person to ever turn down an opportunity to expand my knowledge base because knowledge is power, of course, and one day I'll rule the world and you'll all be sorry then BWAHAHAHAHAHA.....ahem, er....so I'm in favor of training if you can get it and if it works for you, but you can't always get it and sometimes what's available doesn't work for you. Let's not forget the puke-inducing hypnosis seminar I went to last year.

Must you have formal training? I'd be an idiot to say so since clearly there are good and competent Dominants who haven't and terrible ones who have. I do lean toward the belief that Dominants should undergo more rigorous extra-relationship training than submissives because they hold the whip. Yes, everyone has responsibility for their own safety in this game, but when your partner is tied up and armed with a safe word and you're the one holding the instrument of doom the split second between split skin and that safe word belongs to you. Anyone can have an accident, but the better your skill and training, the fewer accidents you have.


-B

 

[graceanne]

There's something else that confuses me. So supposedly serving as a sub for a year helps you understand what's going on in there heads. How can a dom/sadist understand what's going on in a subs head just from a spanking. It's something different - it turns me on, but it doesn't turn on a top/sadist (generally). So you don't know what's going on in my head.

Plus what goes through one subs head and what goes through another's head is quite often two different things. People are complicated creatures, serving as a sub for a year isn't gonna do shit when it comes to understanding me, anymore than walking around in a dress will let you know what it's like to be a woman.

 

[catalina_francisco]

There's something else that confuses me. So supposedly serving as a sub for a year helps you understand what's going on in there heads. How can a dom/sadist understand what's going on in a subs head just from a spanking. It's something different - it turns me on, but it doesn't turn on a top/sadist (generally). So you don't know what's going on in my head.

Plus what goes through one subs head and what goes through another's head is quite often two different things. People are complicated creatures, serving as a sub for a year isn't gonna do shit when it comes to understanding me, anymore than walking around in a dress will let you know what it's like to be a woman.

It is a little more complicated sometimes, and perhaps is one thing that will work for one but not another. I am of the thought that if you are a Dom through and through, you can train as a sub as long as you like, but as you say grace, there will be a difference in the way you experience and process it simply because your make up is different. OTOH, for me as a slave now being placed in the position of topping other subs, I am finding my own experience and mindset an advantage a typical Top/Dom does not necessarily have. For those who get their kicks in much the same way I do, I have great connection with and often remain a jump ahead of them and instinctively know what they need...it works also with those who have slightly different tastes to mine, though it is not as strong a connection simply because I do not feel the same, so then tap into my skills to use my mind to place myself into a different space. I find I am learning more about D/s than I ever did from living in my comfort zone of slave, though that is who I am inside and out.

Catalina

 

[bridgeburner]

I'm with you on that, Graceanne. I suppose the idea behind it is so that a Dominant will truly, viscerally appreciate a submissive's service, but you really can't grok it unless you're a submissive.

And then, some submissives get off on service and others get off on humiliation and yet others get off on praise or objectification or the attention or any combination of things and if you don't get off on any of those things being bossed around is only going to piss you off or bewilder you.

-B

 

[Richard49]

I'm with you on that, Graceanne. I suppose the idea behind it is so that a Dominant will truly, viscerally appreciate a submissive's service, but you really can't grok it unless you're a submissive.

And then, some submissives get off on service and others get off on humiliation and yet others get off on praise or objectification or the attention or any combination of things and if you don't get off on any of those things being bossed around is only going to piss you off or bewilder you.

-B

interesting how you and so many interchange titles (ways of being) when they are infact seperate issues
like a submissive and a bottom are two states of being and it should not be assumes they are the same at any time.

 

[bridgeburner]

interesting how you and so many interchange titles (ways of being) when they are infact seperate issues
like a submissive and a bottom are two states of being and it should not be assumes they are the same at any time.

Richard,

You need to go back to ignoring me since you're having a hard time reading. The term "bottom" is nowhere in my post.

 

[Richard49]

Richard,

You need to go back to ignoring me since you're having a hard time reading. The term "bottom" is nowhere in my post.

Welp
prehaps you are the one that can not read
but me thinks it is that you are part of the group that just wants to manpulate things so you can have what you want without paying the price

I may be wrong
I was once
but my money is that you are one of those that says traing is not necsary

I used the submissive/bottom as an example of inproper exchange of titles(beings)

As to ignoring you
as soon as lady_kat passes
all my posts and threads will be removed from Lit

in the meantime
that's the time between than and when
I hope I can expose to those that have been hurt or are afraid of hurt
that the majority of the pain lies in the misuse of language allowing folks
to mislead others as to what they are and can expect

 

[Netzach]

interesting how you and so many interchange titles (ways of being) when they are infact seperate issues
like a submissive and a bottom are two states of being and it should not be assumes they are the same at any time.

So if being a Dominant is a fixed way of BEING, then how did you serve "as a submissive" for a year?

Bear in mind, I spent my fair share of time taking orders, serving, being struck and sometimes fucked at the whim of others. I'd say what I was DOING was submitting.

 

[Netzach]

I actually think that bottoming/submitting is valuable training for Dominants/Tops and is written off far too quickly.

I don't think I'd be half what I am without it. Whether I got out of it a perfect understanding of what a submissive gets and total empathy with them isn't the point. The point is that I pushed myself into a growth situation of considerable difficulty. Was it fun for me? Sometimes very much so. More often than not, fuck, no! It was uncomfortable, not-me, infuriating, humiliating, and disappointing. And I don't regret a moment of it.

 

[SweetDommes]

I actually think that bottoming/submitting is valuable training for Dominants/Tops and is written off far too quickly.

I don't think I'd be half what I am without it. Whether I got out of it a perfect understanding of what a submissive gets and total empathy with them isn't the point. The point is that I pushed myself into a growth situation of considerable difficulty. Was it fun for me? Sometimes very much so. More often than not, fuck, no! It was uncomfortable, not-me, infuriating, humiliating, and disappointing. And I don't regret a moment of it.

Although I will admit that I'm one who voted that "it isn't necessary," I also admit that I'm a switch. I have bottomed before; I still do at times. However, as to "formal training" - didn't happen, and not likely to happen any time in the future.

I do believe that every PYL should experience the other side - but a short-term arrangement is enough, in my opinion.

 

[Richard49]

So if being a Dominant is a fixed way of BEING, then how did you serve "as a submissive" for a year?

Bear in mind, I spent my fair share of time taking orders, serving, being struck and sometimes fucked at the whim of others. I'd say what I was DOING was submitting.

I would agree that what you were doing was submitting "physically"
maybe you were more bottoming

I know my year was hell in many ways
the only way I made it through was the comittment I made to myself
and at times just pure fucking grit....

and I am not saying that the only way totrain as is I did and you did
but it is hard to see how someone can say "I am a Dom" and not have experences the other end ... me thinks that it is this lack of traing that we get switches or as one former moderator of this board who came on as a submissive and than a swtich and finall as a Domme

we can think in our head that we are (....) but when it comes to real life experence we find we are not (....).

I remember in VN a lot of youngins who came so very brave with the "I will..."
and the "I'll never ..." only to be just the opposite when the first shell came in.

When one says they are a Dom and turn out to be nothing more than an untrained top some one is going to get hurt. When another comes on says "I am submissive"and in reality they are asensulist someone is going to get hurt.

As I live that year as both a submissive and bottom every minute of it taught me what I really was and was not it also taught me much about what it would "feel" like (both physically and emotionally) to be a submissive or bottom or sensulist.

Since being here and atending munchs locally and being part of this local community I have seen many who were nothing more than manpulators. In that manpulation I have seen people hurt ... some very badly...

 

[Richard49]

Although I will admit that I'm one who voted that "it isn't necessary," I also admit that I'm a switch. I have bottomed before; I still do at times. However, as to "formal training" - didn't happen, and not likely to happen any time in the future.

I do believe that every PYL should experience the other side - but a short-term arrangement is enough, in my opinion.

This is a far cry from "it isn't necessary"

Me thinks short term is a year