...Forgive?

[satindesire]

I told him I wanted to go to a counselor again a few nights ago. He drooped and just kept asking "But I thought I was doing better! Aren't I doing better?"

All I could think was "If you have to ask, what do you think?"

I know a few said to leave him last year. But it's hard to really think about that. Have I debated? Yes. He's changed to who I used to know somewhat, but Jerk is still there too. I think because "that stuff" isn't brought up much anymore, it's ceased to exist for him. Never happened. Erased from existence.

There are things from our past that confused me, things said by others... And I see more of what they meant more and more. But I get scared to try and bring them up. Ask him about it. Ask why he does things. Even now, this mr lubby dubby is scaring the hell out of me. I've worked 3 days so far, he and the kids home alone together for 9 hours each time. I admit, I'm worried. That old temper might resurge and I'm not around to get them clear. So far things seem well. But that's so far, on three days. By next month... I dunno.

Maybe I am stupid to stay. Stupidly holding to that "he can change" mentality.

I'm going to try the counseling. May even swallow down and get ahold of that family member.

You know and I know both that inside you know he won't change.

You already know you need to leave and you eventually will.

From now until you do, it's a waiting game.

You've already made the choice. You're just trying to figure out how to accept it.


(I say this from intensely personal experience, as I was in a horrifically abusive relationship with a man much like your own descriptions for four years.)

 

[sweet_k]

That was the one...

I've been trying to be more open. He says I take things too literally and need a thicker skin. That lately I take too much out of context. I'm trying to not do that as much, but with the way he says and does it, it's hard not to feel it's against me.

He lost his job in January. I still don't know the exact reason as to why. We've both been looking for jobs awhile (I only worked weekends til this week), and that's been eating at him. Every rejection or unanswered resume pisses him off. I think me getting hired somewhere this week is going to add to that. I mean, he's happy now, but there was already a comment made that raised my red flag.

He's trying, attempting to be nicer to the three of us. This morning he did dishes, ran me a bath, gave me a backrub, picked out my clothes for me (though that weirded me out). I'm trying to lower the barrier I put up, but after almost 2 years of doing it, it's difficult.

I think I want to try counseling again. I'm just afraid to. The last time was such a horror, I'm scared.

He didn't cheat on me. He was emotionally abusive for the bettet half of my last pregnancy and the first 6 months of our daughter's life. I attribute most of his anger/problems with his old job. Now that he's not there, he's calmer, for the most part. But I'm very afraid when he gets hired somewhere, once work stress restarts, so will everything else.

I guess I'm torn. I want to see and hope that I get my guy back again... But am scared on what I may get in the end. I think that's why it's so hard. I'm afraid that if I forgive him, will it just restart? I know that's not something that anyone can answer, but my mind is thinking it all the time...

What a fucking piece of shit asshole. He can't get a job because he's a child with severe anger and attitude issues. I attribute his anger/attitude issues to him being bugfuck crazy.

If you're afraid of him, Jesus Christ..get out. It is that easy. Take your kids and just get the fuck away from this psycho.

NO ONE deserves to be abused, or to live in fear. NO ONE.

You don't have to stay with him to forgive him. My father nearly killed me when I was a child. I forgive him, but haven't seen nor talked to him at least ten years.

Walk away. No, run away. Far away.

 

[Lior2006]

Protect your children and get them out of there.

 

[Frothydog]

You grit your teeth when he touches you, and you sob after having sex with him. You are in terror to leave your babies alone with him.

You are living in hell, Sweetheart.

Any move you take away from him is a move forward; in the right direction. Even if that means sucking it up for a short time to TEMPORARILY move in with your parents.

You are much too intelligent to have to live in constant fear and revulsion. Listen to what everyone here is saying.

 

[Mephistophelily]

I think I need more help.
Some way to get my strength back up. I'm right at that brink of going.
He hurt me over the weekend. Terribly.
He tried to force himself on me, even after a 2 hour talk the night before on how I was still scared of him.
The more I think on it, the worse I feel.
I brought it up the other day. He basically tried to rape me. I didnt want it. I told him that. And he did it anyway. That killed any trust I had left.
And now he feels bad. He cries. Says he's sorry. Says he loves me, that was wrong, that he knows I love him or I would have left by now.

He brings up the kids. So much.
He wants marriage counselling now. Set one up himself. But he seems to think this made everything better.

one hand says I should try. For our kids.
The other wants to know why the hell it took 2 years for him to wake up. That its far too late.

I feel sometimes like i'm at fault. That I'm ruining everything. That everything isnt bad, i'm overreacting still.

He swears he wants to try.
I'm not sure i'm even emotionally here anymore...

 

[Noor]

I think I need more help.
Some way to get my strength back up. I'm right at that brink of going.
He hurt me over the weekend. Terribly.
He tried to force himself on me, even after a 2 hour talk the night before on how I was still scared of him.
The more I think on it, the worse I feel.
I brought it up the other day. He basically tried to rape me. I didnt want it. I told him that. And he did it anyway. That killed any trust I had left.
And now he feels bad. He cries. Says he's sorry. Says he loves me, that was wrong, that he knows I love him or I would have left by now.

He brings up the kids. So much.
He wants marriage counselling now. Set one up himself. But he seems to think this made everything better.

one hand says I should try. For our kids.
The other wants to know why the hell it took 2 years for him to wake up. That its far too late.

I feel sometimes like i'm at fault. That I'm ruining everything. That everything isnt bad, i'm overreacting still.

He swears he wants to try.
I'm not sure i'm even emotionally here anymore...

Sweetie- he did rape you. You are not over reacting! You tell him how scared you are so he rapes you? Its a power thing, its not a sex thing. He knows if he gets emotional, says he's sorry, cries, brings up the kids, he can pull you back, this is classic abuse patterns and he is escalating.

Start finding a place to run to that he can't find or trace. Call abuse shelters, get out quietly with the kids. Don't let him know a thing. Don't threaten to leave, just act as normal as you can. Don't talk to him about it, don't visibly pack, just disappear. I have seen this before, statistically you are in the most danger when you leave but for your children's sake if you can't do it for your own, you must leave as soon as possible.

A friend of mine was in a similar situation about 15 yrs ago, she set up a place with her kids birth certificates, money, codes to friends "just in case". One day she left a message on a friends machine that was not the right code, said she was going to a shelter. We called the police, her husband told them she had left and gone into a shelter somewhere. She and her children have yet to be found. No one, not her family, her church or her friends have heard from her since that phone message.

 

[removed021712]

A couple of thoughts; first, forgiveness is entirely about you. It is not about him. Forgiveness is about you releasing the resentments that you are carrying around because of his actions real or perceived (and I know that at leat some of them are real). It is YOU, not him, that is bound by these resentments - they likely have little affect on him. Read some of the AA literatire on resentment and forgiveness...it is amazingly good. Also, remember, forgiving him does NOT mean that what he did was ok - if it were, you would not need to fogive him. It means that you are willing to move forward with your life and not live in the past misdeeds.

Any counselor worth a nickel would likely suggest a period of abstinence while you are working through these issues. There is no possible way that you can be intimate while you are fearful. If he is not willing to do that, there is no point in even talking.

 

[SweetErika]

I think I need more help.
Some way to get my strength back up. I'm right at that brink of going.
He hurt me over the weekend. Terribly.
He tried to force himself on me, even after a 2 hour talk the night before on how I was still scared of him.
The more I think on it, the worse I feel.
I brought it up the other day. He basically tried to rape me. I didnt want it. I told him that. And he did it anyway. That killed any trust I had left.
And now he feels bad. He cries. Says he's sorry. Says he loves me, that was wrong, that he knows I love him or I would have left by now.

He brings up the kids. So much.
He wants marriage counselling now. Set one up himself. But he seems to think this made everything better.

one hand says I should try. For our kids.
The other wants to know why the hell it took 2 years for him to wake up. That its far too late.

I feel sometimes like i'm at fault. That I'm ruining everything. That everything isnt bad, i'm overreacting still.

He swears he wants to try.
I'm not sure i'm even emotionally here anymore...

You are NOT at fault. You are NOT overreacting to the [attempted] rape, mental or emotional abuse. Don't let yourself think or say otherwise.

Clearly this scumbag doesn't want to change, or he'd be continuing to make marked changes, rather than saying he wants to try.

And you've got to tell the part of you that says "try for the kids" that it's screwed up. In reality, you need to get out for your kids. Otherwise, you're just showing them it's normal to abuse and be abused. I know you're a much better mom than that.

Especially now that this has escalated to physical violence, you have to get out for yourself and your kids. Call your local domestic abuse hotline or shelter for support, both emotional and in terms of getting out safely. Then do what they say; they are experts and aren't in the heat of this situation.

Get yourself and your kids out of there and completely healthy. Your husband can go to counseling and work on himself while you guys are safe, if he really wants to. And if he ever does demonstrate change and regain your trust over a looooooong period of time, you can always go back.

You have to make a move before he really explodes, or you do, or your kids get hit with crossfire. Seriously, this is your bottom/turning point, honey.

 

[silverwhisper]

i think that some things are unforgivable, and mephistophelily, i think that's one. i don't think it matters a damn how sorry he claims he is--he might even mean it right now--but if that's happened even once, i say all bets are off.

frankly, i think you need to call the police, file a report and get this shit documented to establish a pattern of abuse. if there are bruises, i think a hospital visit is appropriate because hospital staff can serve as witnesses if need be.

you are not at fault here, like erika said. nobody "makes" a man do that to a woman. your children deserve a healthy model for their own future relationships.

please don't become a statistic, and please don't contribute to your children becoming statistics, either.

ed

 

[Frothydog]

A couple of thoughts; first, forgiveness is entirely about you. It is not about him. Forgiveness is about you releasing the resentments that you are carrying around because of his actions real or perceived (and I know that at leat some of them are real). It is YOU, not him, that is bound by these resentments - they likely have little affect on him. Read some of the AA literatire on resentment and forgiveness...it is amazingly good. Also, remember, forgiving him does NOT mean that what he did was ok - if it were, you would not need to fogive him. It means that you are willing to move forward with your life and not live in the past misdeeds.

Any counselor worth a nickel would likely suggest a period of abstinence while you are working through these issues. There is no possible way that you can be intimate while you are fearful. If he is not willing to do that, there is no point in even talking.

There is plenty of time for forgiveness, but that can wait. It seems his abusive behavior is escalating. You can have him arrested you know, and a restraining order placed on him. This is not going to get better, and it is getting worse. Call a crisis hotline and tell them everything. See what they say. My advice would be to call 911 right now and have him taken away.

You have it within yourself to make it stop. I'm not saying it will be easy, but being inside looking out makes it hard for you to be objective. Please don't doubt yourself. There is nothing wrong with you. He is a predator. It is NOT YOUR FAULT. My heart goes out to you, kiddo. Really, it does.

 

[Noor]

There is plenty of time for forgiveness, but that can wait. It seems his abusive behavior is escalating. You can have him arrested you know, and a restraining order placed on him. This is not going to get better, and it is getting worse. Call a crisis hotline and tell them everything. See what they say. My advice would be to call 911 right now and have him taken away.

You have it within yourself to make it stop. I'm not saying it will be easy, but being inside looking out makes it hard for you to be objective. Please don't doubt yourself. There is nothing wrong with you. He is a predator. It is NOT YOUR FAULT. My heart goes out to you, kiddo. Really, it does.

Just so you know, a restraining order is only good if the guy obeys it and they usually don't. The time between when the ex arrives and the police show up can be life and death. I would be armed and hard to find until he moves onto someone else.

Not saying you should do this, as its not nice or illegal but I have noticed that having really mean assed larger than him male relatives show up with weapons, threaten to take him out if anything ever happens to you, and dump his body somewhere it won't be found for decades seems to work better than restraining orders. The ones I know about have been very specific as to how they would do it and where they would dump the body.

Where I am, people under restraining orders are not supposed to be able to get a firearms license, but recently a friend discovered her ex who she has one against was able to get a firearms license under his name and address!

 

[Frothydog]

Noor, I know firsthand the limitations of restraining orders and how the system is designed to protect the guilty. Yet to do nothing is to invite disaster by inches. I do agree she needs to be hard to find once he gets out of custody. A gun would be good, but those cost money, and she is not in any financial condition to drop several hundred dollars on a gun and concealed weapons permit.

Your idea of the big guys showing up to explain why it would be best for him to move on is a good one but I don't know that this is a viable resource for Mephistophelily. Guys like this are brothers, cousins and brothers of close friends, and her husband has probably severely hindered any close relationships except for him.

My guess is that in RL she is portraying her marriage as sound, and that this is the only place she is being completely honest about what is going on.

 

[Mephistophelily]

That's it exactly, Frothydog. Because of our kids, stresses already on family members, and other things, I try to keep the happy wife going around others. He's very good at blowing it off and acting likr nothing's wrong.... So if I'm depressed, crying, and afraid in front of others, it comes off very strange. I keep bottling it and faking it.

I wish I could take the Big Scary Guys approach. But I don't have any nearby. I know 2 people that would probably come if I absolutely needed them if he got violently bad, but other than that, we live by his family and his friends. I'm originally from 2 counties away, and most of my family is scattered that way. I've got my mom in her Mama Bear state...

I do have someone with not size intimidation, but authority. I've been afraid to call her.

That fear's starting to slip.

He's trying so hard right now to be good and nice and kind- but I just dont trust it at all. He said he feels sick. That he misses sex.

That got me.
You dont miss me saying I love you with sincerity?
You just miss sex?

I get so much "I know you still love me because..." Or "I know you won't go because" lately. It's starting to work on me. I know it shouldn't (believe me, I hear it from someone thats trying to help me...) and it just bothers the heck out of me. Let me think for myself.

The counselor is next wednesday.
I just hope I dont shut down.

 

[ecclectic]

Not saying you should do this, as its not nice or illegal but I have noticed that having really mean assed larger than him male relatives show up with weapons, threaten to take him out if anything ever happens to you, and dump his body somewhere it won't be found for decades seems to work better than restraining orders. The ones I know about have been very specific as to how they would do it and where they would dump the body.

Failing that, find some long haul movers who are willing to help you out.

Slip your guy something that will make him compliant/unconscious and he wakes up on the other side of the country with nothing in his pockets. Used to be able to make them wake up in another country, but the borders x-ray the trucks now.

 

[Jackotheshadows]

That's it exactly, Frothydog. Because of our kids, stresses already on family members, and other things, I try to keep the happy wife going around others. He's very good at blowing it off and acting likr nothing's wrong.... So if I'm depressed, crying, and afraid in front of others, it comes off very strange. I keep bottling it and faking it....

Two things, one might be considered pop psychology, but I think it's helpful...

This guy's walking down a street when he falls in a hole. The walls are so steep, he can't get out. A doctor passes by, and the guy shouts up, "Hey you, can you help me out?" The doctor writes a prescription, throws it down in the hole and moves on. Then a priest comes along, and the guy shouts up "Father, I'm down in this hole, can you help me out?" The priest writes out a prayer, throws it down in the hole and moves on. Then a friend walks by. "Hey Joe, it's me, can you help me out?" And the friend jumps in the hole. Our guy says, "Are you stupid? Now we're both down here." The friend says, "Yeah, but I've been down here before, and I know the way out."

Lean on your friends. If they're good ones, they'll get mad *for* you, and let you bleed off some of the stress. And they may have a perspective on the situation, or a suggestion, that you hadn't considered before. They probably already see things going awry, so not telling them isn't doing any good at all.

The other thing is this. If he's truly repentant, then he should understand, in a deep way, that your forgiveness is not guaranteed, nor is it easily won. It can be frustrating for him, sure, but if he's really addressing the things he's done, then he should be willing to suck it up and endure. I wonder if he's though about his response if the situation were reversed. And no, not the "Oh, of COURSE I'd forgive you." that most people toss off when faced with that scenario. Because we know it's not nearly that easy.

And if he is truly sorry, and is going to put the work in to earn your trust back, you will have to decide two things. One, do you have the ability to forgive him (at some point), completely and without lingering resentment. Not forgetting the past, but not bringing it up during arguments, or letting it color your future relationship. Any lingering anger and resentment, after deciding to forgive, will fuel resentment on his part, and the belief that you didn't really forgive him. And then it's all over. Forgiveness is really a simple thing in concept, but oh-so-hard to do. And the second decision is, can you abide by that decision for the forseeable future? Those are the keys. I wish you luck!

 

[Noor]

That's it exactly, Frothydog. Because of our kids, stresses already on family members, and other things, I try to keep the happy wife going around others. He's very good at blowing it off and acting likr nothing's wrong.... So if I'm depressed, crying, and afraid in front of others, it comes off very strange. I keep bottling it and faking it.

I wish I could take the Big Scary Guys approach. But I don't have any nearby. I know 2 people that would probably come if I absolutely needed them if he got violently bad, but other than that, we live by his family and his friends. I'm originally from 2 counties away, and most of my family is scattered that way. I've got my mom in her Mama Bear state...

I do have someone with not size intimidation, but authority. I've been afraid to call her.

That fear's starting to slip.

He's trying so hard right now to be good and nice and kind- but I just dont trust it at all. He said he feels sick. That he misses sex.

That got me.
You dont miss me saying I love you with sincerity?
You just miss sex?

I get so much "I know you still love me because..." Or "I know you won't go because" lately. It's starting to work on me. I know it shouldn't (believe me, I hear it from someone thats trying to help me...) and it just bothers the heck out of me. Let me think for myself.

The counselor is next wednesday.
I just hope I dont shut down.

Good Luck with the counselor. I think you need to let your friends know, the more resources you have available the better.

I am a fairly small stature person, but I am told that I can be vicious when cornered or in protection mode. I have a well of anger I can channel into action if needed, and at times it has saved my life. You need to find a way of doing that, I can see your anger is there. Don't let it eat you up, just store it for when you might need it. Use it to make you stronger and keep you from shutting down. If you feel you are giving in, think of your kids, they need you and they need a better environment than what they have now.

 

[Frothydog]

I do have someone with not size intimidation, but authority. I've been afraid to call her.

That fear's starting to slip.


The counselor is next wednesday.
I just hope I dont shut down.

Please, please find it within yourself to take advantage of the resources you have and do what you have to do for yourself and your babies.

Remember that bravery is not the absence of fear. Bravery is doing what needs to be done regardless of how afraid you are.

 

[Mephistophelily]

Thank you for your thoughts.
He found my posts... and is most likely still reading.

Even after he promised not to.
Stop it. Please. Stop breaking promises to me!

 

[SweetErika]

You have to know that's not going to happen. He doesn't love, or even care about, you enough to keep promises.

Here's to hoping he reads this, realizes how truly sick he is, and leaves at least until he gets the help he desperately needs.

 

[berg177]

The counselor is next wednesday.

There's no next Wednesday left in this relationship. Sometimes post marital counseling helps to sort things out but you need to be in a safe place before you can make that decision. Run don't walk. If my family had only been two counties away when I finally sought help in my marriage I'd be one whole year closer to good mental health.

It gets so much better. You get to breathe again... really breathe.

 

[ecclectic]

Thank you for your thoughts.
He found my posts... and is most likely still reading.

Even after he promised not to.
Stop it. Please. Stop breaking promises to me!

If he's going to insist on reading the posts, lets hear his side of the story, or he can prove that he's no kind of man at all and just read and cower in some dark corner of his mind and lash out at you.

 

[fuckmeat]

Oh wow.

I so wished it wasn't nearly this bad for you.

I'm not going to reiterate my thoughts in addition to all the advice you've had here. Please know that you are in my thoughts. Please also know that you're responsible for the first prayer I've said in nearly a year.

Ok... just one piece of advice. I know, it's pathological.

When you decide to leave, lean on everyone that offers you any form of help. You must have no pride where getting yourself and your kids to safety is concerned. Not all your relationships with friends or even relatives will survive but by that time, you will be somewhere your husband cannot reach you. It will feel selfish, especially at a time when you can't reciprocate but true friends play the long game. They know that a time may come when they need to cash that karma.

Also, even if he hasn't hit you you have every right to go to a shelter. Psychological abuse is more debilitating in many respects than domestic violence. Rape is violence, whether you lie there and let it happen or not.

My heart goes out to you Lily. Everyone on this thread is rooting for you.

And now that your husband has seen this thread, I hope I don't need to tell you not to discuss your exit strategy here.

 

[Eilan]

It's definitely past time to DTMFA.

OP's husband: If you're reading this and don't know what that means, look it up.

Hint: MF = you.

Just so you know, a restraining order is only good if the guy obeys it and they usually don't.

The person who files the order has to obey it as well.

 

[Frothydog]

Everyone on this thread is rooting for you.

We totally are.

 

[Teachme84]

Hi..
Like others this thread has opened up alot of bad memories for me, and i don't envy you at all. I really wish you weren't in this situation, and i hope you find the strength to leave and heal yourself very soon.
I really do send my very best wishes to you and hope your ok.
Please let us know how you are when you can.
xxxxxx