Forced masculinization?

[KoPilot]

It didn't occur to me that there could be an "opposite" to forced feminization until like, yesterday.

Does this even exist? If not, why do you think so? Do you think that it could be used as an effective tool of humiliation?

I think it could if done right. One of the things I've noticed is that a lot of female pyls highly value their femininity, and it seems to serve as a foundation for their s-type behavior.

I could see how having your chest bound and forced to wear a strap-on for non-sexual activities like cleaning, or ill-fitting men's clothes, or having your hair cut short could easily undermine that prized femininity, especially if forced to do so in public.

Ideas? Thoughts?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thing is, we don't associate masculinity with loss of status-- in fact quite the opposite. Your female sub would have to be convinced, somehow, that being male was an undesirable and unacceptable thing in society's eyes, that being a boy means loss of freedom, a state of vulnerability, and a constriction of boundaries...

That men are worth less than women are, and it's slightly shameful to be one.

Does any woman on this green planet believe anything like that? Really truly deeply viscerally believe it?

 

[welkin]

It doesn't work as well... That female has long been regarded as the "weaker" sex, it plays on men's insecurity of being powerless and demoted... Kinda like some people would think a tomboy is a woman who is assertive and independent and confident... So there you have it, m-> f is disempower and f -> m is empower.

Which is why to me, femininization as humiliation is quite sexist -- why should a man feel humiliated to be dressed in women's clothes if women were men's equal, just with a different phenotype?

 

[welkin]

(I can see calling a woman unfeminine might have the same humiliating effect as calling her unattractive, but that humiliation comes from a different place than what men get out of femininization.)

 

[hoodooman]

let's see...

I'm home fresh out of a shower and shave...put on a slight touch of perfume and a satin robe when I see her car pull into the driveway.

She's wearing a man's suit and carrying a briefcase. She looks like Charlie Chaplin but without the moustache...

I pour her a glass of wine and greet her at the door with a kiss and the wine. She sips without answering my "welcome home darling" and then sets the briefcase next to the door.

"Suck my dick" she says flatly.

I go to my knees, unbuckle, unbutton and unzip her slacks. Her briefs appear in peek-a-boo. I reach up with both hands and slide her slacks to her ankles. I see the bulge from her phallus and lean forward to kiss it lovingly. She watches and I look up. Our eyes meet. I smile at her to express my love and adoration. I pull on the waistband of her tighty whities until they too are at her ankles.

Her long thick cock bobs and sways. I look up again to see her smile at what will happen next. With our eyes locked, I take her cock in both hands and lift it to my mouth. I eagerly pucker to accept the head between my hungry lips.

I swirl my tougue around the head and into the pee hole, our eyes still locked. I break my gaze as she thrusts gently forward. The vibrator in the cock comes to life with a buzz. Mistress coaxes me with encouragement such as "suck it bitch, make me come so you can lick it up".

 

[Stella_Omega]

Well, that's an excellent example of a man who does not listen.

Did you not see what the topic is? Did you read the top post?

Talk with your mistress about your ignorant faux pas.

But yes, that sort of thing is the way masculinisation goes. Towards power, not away from it.

The only examples I've ever seen where the switch is humiliating is when the girl is forced to become a "boy amongst men" and the other guys mock "him" for his tiny dick and tell him...

wait for it...

that "he" might as well be a chick and they're going to treat "him" accordingly. And then he gets to be the bottom in a gay gangbang.


That would work best when that woman WANTS to BE a man in the first place. Shame I don't care to be humiliated, huh. I got me a readymade scenario!

 

[Etoile]

There's a story in Macho Sluts about this, isn't there? I know I've read one in one of my books. If it's not that, I'll find which one it is.

 

[Stella_Omega]

There's a story in Macho Sluts about this, isn't there? I know I've read one in one of my books. If it's not that, I'll find which one it is.

Yes there is! You'll notice there's not much gender-based humiliation involved. The guys simply treat her like the butch woman she is.

Which would be just fine by me. I really am not in the market for further gender humiliation than life has already handed me... Honest!

 

[Etoile]

Yes there is! You'll notice there's not much gender-based humiliation involved. The guys simply treat her like the butch woman she is.

Which would be just fine by me. I really am not in the market for further gender humiliation than life has already handed me... Honest!

Are you thinking of the one with the cops? I looooove that one. It's not what I was thinking of though. I'm remembering one where a guy takes his girlfriend to a gay bar after butching her up. At one point a buttplug ends up in a drink, and somebody yells "hold still boy, if your daddy wants your ass, he gets it! "

I gotta find it now....

 

[Stella_Omega]

Are you thinking of the one with the cops? I looooove that one. It's not what I was thinking of though. I'm remembering one where a guy takes his girlfriend to a gay bar after butching her up. At one point a buttplug ends up in a drink, and somebody yells "hold still boy, if your daddy wants your ass, he gets it! "

I gotta find it now....

Please let me know when you find it

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

I have always pictured Stella like this for some odd reason. Kind of the Marlene Dietrich of Lit wearing a strapon

 

[Stella_Omega]

That's very sweet of you, VBM, but-- I am not nearly as feminine or glamorous or heterosexual as Marlena was. I don't wear drag for the delectation of men.

I'd ask her out on a date though!

If i were to be a hat-wearing celeb my preference would be along these lines:

or maybe this:

or:

 

[Etoile]

gotta fix up your brando pic stella, imageshack doesn't like lit! and no hotlinking!

 

[Stella_Omega]

gotta fix up your brando pic stella, imageshack doesn't like lit! and no hotlinking!

Ma'm, yes Ma'm

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

Brando and Sinatra are the shit. Along with Orson Wells my three favorite legends.

Depp not so much. I think Depp is a fantastically talented actor, maybe the best of his generation, but for some reason he never appealed to me. I think it is his anti-American sentiment and that is why I refuse to watch his films any longer. He is a wannabe European.

I still rather bone Marlene, minus her strapon, than any of the pugs mentioned above

 

[Stella_Omega]

With all due respect, I don't care if Depp appeals to you or not, or who you want to bone. This thread isn't about you-- nor about me, really-- it's nominally about a possible form of humiliation play, and how it might work for different types of women. I'm one type of woman, which is why I offered my thoughts.

I shouldn't have answered you in the first place... My apologies to the thread respondents.

 

[Very_Bad_Man]

With all due respect, I don't care if Depp appeals to you or not, or who you want to bone. This thread isn't about you-- nor about me, really-- it's nominally about a possible form of humiliation play, and how it might work for different types of women. I'm one type of woman, which is why I offered my thoughts.

I shouldn't have answered you in the first place... My apologies to the thread respondents.

Okay I'll just put you on ignore. I really detest bitchy people. This way I do not further intrude on you.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Okay I'll just put you on ignore. I really detest bitchy people. This way I do not further intrude on you.

Duuuude.....

 

[YourCaptor]

I can see it being done to men more than to women. Just looking at the nilla world, it's very common.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I can see it being done to men more than to women. Just looking at the nilla world, it's very common.

Forcing masculinisation on men?

You're right, at that.

 

[Dyslexicea]

Forcing masculinisation on men?

You're right, at that.

This did make me smile but it also made me think.

No we don't force masculinity on men but we do force it on boys, lovely beautiful little boys. Not the kind of masculinity you and I speak of, the kind where you wear your heart on your sleeve but the kind of masculinity which almost destroys the heart.

What has it gotten us, men who lack empathy and compassion. Men who go to war, men who don't care if they kill hundreds of innocent children, women and men as long as they can kill one or two bad men, bad by their definition, which may mean only they fit someone's profile. Men who kill. Men who rape. Men who sell addictive drugs to children so they can make a few more bucks. Men who'd rather build weapons than feed, house and help the poor. Men who'd rather put people in jail than solve problems.

Men who treat us like we are second class. Men who think they have the right to control our bodies. Men who deny we have the same rights as they do. Men(some Supreme Court Justices) who say our Constitution doesn't give us the same rights as men. Men who won't even amend our Constitution to add "Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of sex." We're the lucky ones it's much worse for more than half our sisters in this world.

Men who very well may end it for all of us.

It doesn't have to be this way if we just let children be who they are meant to be. Not just boys but girls too. I know it can works, I know men who are very masculine but are loving, compassionate men, just as I know men who are very feminine, loving and compassionate. What wrong with a man being a mix of both?

As far as butch goes, most butch girls I've known have heart. Why is it that all women can't be excepted as butch if it's how we want to or need to express ourselves? Why should it just be in my community where we can express ourselves as we need to. I can be butch today, femme tomorrow and anywhere in-between if I care to be.

I guess KoPilot I brought your thread back but maybe not the way I should have.

 

[Allyourbase]

Hey!

*raised from the dead* tnx Dyslexicea

Whats happening to the forums! They is all awesome all of a suddens!

Just stopping by, so I'll get updates on this thread. Will read up later soon.

And for the archeological efforts of future generations I'll just drop the same story here that I did in the Humiliation/Embarrassment thread, because it has a home now: Machoification. Lesbian forced masculinization.

(An aside: there's some humiliation play concerning FtM crossdressing in one of my own stories as well (A clean shirt), but that's not forced masculinization.)

Oh and:

The only examples I've ever seen where the switch is humiliating is when the girl is forced to become a "boy amongst men" and the other guys mock "him" for his tiny dick and tell him...

wait for it...

that "he" might as well be a chick and they're going to treat "him" accordingly. And then he gets to be the bottom in a gay gangbang.

That would work best when that woman WANTS to BE a man in the first place. Shame I don't care to be humiliated, huh. I got me a readymade scenario!

*ahem*
I like that...

 

[CutieMouse]

I get the argument that it's difficult to force a masculine image on a woman, and have her experience the same distress/humiliation as forced feminization might cause.

However...

IMO, it is possible. I recently changed jobs, which meant a [necessary] change of wardrobe. My previous wardrobe was very feminine - pencil skirts, cardigans and stilettos. The new job requires a company logo polo shirt and slacks. I haven't worn slacks in 10 years. I haven't worn a polo (much less one with a logo) in, ummm... ever.

It's been an interesting change. Dressing down (and in a way I personally identify as more masculine) has been very dis-empowering, for me. I've struggled with feeling like a woman trapped in boy's clothes; there is nothing that distinguishes me from the men in my workplace. It feels kind of stupid to let it bother me, but it does. It's getting easier to ignore the discomfort, and I understand the reasoning behind the dress code, but blech.

None of the above is an issue of D/s, specifically, and maybe *most* women wouldn't feel "weaker" dressed as a man, but it is possible.

 

[BrightlyGo]

I've got one: Dress her up very convincingly male (but, like nerd/loser - Howard Walowitz type) and send her to a singles bar to get chicks' numbers. Rejection's pretty humiliating.

(Then again, i wouldn't be surprised if she came back with 10...)


I wonder if there's some way you could finagle a convincing job interview...

 

[Sweetdaisymae]

Really interesting thread!
Most male Doms that I have met seem to desire the feminine (looking/dressing) sub. Something I find hard to deal with as I do not dress that way in normal day to day life or feel comfortable in that image.
However forced masculinisation, in the true sense of the word, ultra male clothing, hair, how alien would that feel.
As a straight, female sub, who isn't overtly feminine, yes I would feel out of place, humiliation and possibly desexualised as my sexual id is very much female. There is the question, would I feel sexual when forced into a totally male persona?
It thows up a lot of interesting questions about personal identity that I have not really addresses before.