For Fathers of Daughters, Daughters of Fathers

[NoJo]

Having neither sisters nor daughters (nor neices either, for that matter), I've always wondered at how much truth there is in the words of the straying father in the Philadelphia story:

What do you think?


From The Philadephia Story

Tracy (Katherine Hepburn) is furious at her father, asks him angrily what he blames his philandering on:


Mr. Lord: A reluctance to grow old, I think. I suppose the best mainstay a man can have as he gets along in years is a daughter - the right kind of daughter.
Tracy: How sweet!
Mr. Lord: No, no. I'm talking seriously about something I've thought over thoroughly. I've had to. I think a devoted young girl gives a man the illusion that youth is still his.
Tracy: Very important, I suppose.
Mr. Lord: Oh, very, very. Because without her, he might be inclined to go out in search of his youth. And that's just as important to him as it is to any woman. But with a girl of his own full of warmth for him, full of foolish, unquestioning, uncritical affection -

 

[oggbashan]

Bullshit

It's just an excuse.

Daughters are just like anyone else. They have their own lives to live and will/should leave their father and strike out on their own.

Ditto sons and mothers.

The idea that a man is as young as the woman he feels is an excuse for older men to ditch their wives and chase a younger version. Hypocritical. Why shouldn't his wife use the same excuse to find a younger man?

Og

 

[Guest]

I too think that bit of dialogue is bullshit, particularly given the character who recites it. I know the film is a classic screwball comedy, and based on a then popular Broadway play, but in the end the dynamics of the dialogue, and the psychology of each main character is specious at most. I use that word deliberately and particularly.

Btw, it's a favorite film and one of Cary Grant's shining roles. The rest of the cast ain't bad either .

Perdita

 

[alice_underneath]

I agree with Perdita's comments in their entirety.

However, shifting from screwball comedy to the real world, I note (from personal experience and direct knowledge of the experiences of many others) that a daughter relates very strongly to her mother when the father cheats.

Even in the "best" of such circumstances, the daughter will relate to the mother and feel a certain rejection of herself. This is true even if the father bends over backwards to try to assure her that the rejection of the mother has nothing to do with the child.

In the real world, for a father to outright blame his infidelity on the fact that he does not have "the right kind of daughter" would be nothing short of abject cruelty.

I've always wondered at how much truth there is in the words of the straying father in the Philadelphia story:
What do you think?

I don't know you, Joe, but in this post I do not "read" you as someone who is deliberately trying to offend others.

However, I would respectfully ask you to contemplate why the very suggestion that there might be "truth" in this dialogue is profoundly offensive to the daughters of all philandering men.

Because what you are really asking is: If you had just been cuter/more loving/better behaved/etc., would your father have still done this terrible thing?

Alice

 

[NoJo]

The obvious, easy answer has been given above. Of course, a lot of people would snort and say "that's rich", and assume that the father is being downright devious by trying to absolve himself.

Katherine is also angry at her mother for forgiving the weakness of her father so readily.

The play touches on the subject of strength and weakness. Men are strong, women are weak: That's the myth men and women have to live up to. The play shows strong women and weak men, and as such, is still subversive.

And now, if I may let some of my cats out on the table, I'd say that based on observation of those of my male friends who have the "right kind" of daughter, I can understand Tracy's father's comments.

 

[NoJo]

It's just an excuse.

Daughters are just like anyone else. They have their own lives to live and will/should leave their father and strike out on their own.

Ditto sons and mothers.

The idea that a man is as young as the woman he feels is an excuse for older men to ditch their wives and chase a younger version. Hypocritical. Why shouldn't his wife use the same excuse to find a younger man?

Og

Why not indeed?

 

[Norajane]

I was not full of foolish, unquestioning, uncritical affection for my father- not after the age of 12 or 13 anyway. Warmth and affection, yes. Uncritical and unquestioning, no. My dad was not and is not a philanderer, though.

So I'd conclude it's not necessary to have the right kind of daughter in order to not be a philanderer.

 

[Weepingguitar]

I was 10 when my father left my mother for another woman, and he still suffers from the dilusion that he's a great father and that I adore him. I think he's an asshole, lol. If I ever get around to getting married, he's in for a hell of a shock, because I'm not even sure if I would want him there.

I get along with him as a buddy, but definately not as a father figure.

 

[Guest]

And now, if I may let some of my cats out on the table, I'd say that based on observation of those of my male friends who have the "right kind" of daughter, I can understand Tracy's father's comments.

I would really appreciate you saying more on this (i.e., I don't get it).

I agree with what you say about the play but finally I find it doesn't hold after several decades. I believe it was in the somewhat recent past that the play was revived, if not on Broadway, somewhere back east, and I remember thinking, "What the fuck for?" Unlike Wilde's comedies of manners, neither the playwright's nor the screenwriter's fundamental visions (vis-a-vis the characters) seem substantive or relevant outside the witty banter. What the authors have to say about men and women, sex, love, marriage, etc., amounts to smoke for me.

Perdita