For Cloudy...

[amicus]

Startling DNA evidence and new archeological finds could change what we believe about human evolution forever. Ice Age Columbus: Who Were The First Americans: portrays the epic journey of the prehistoric discover of America 17,000, an accomplishment brought to life by cutting-edge science research. Following a clan of daring European stone age hunters across 3,000 miles of ocean to their first settlement in what is now the northeastern U.S. From the producers of the classic Discovery Channel special the Neanderthal’s World, this two part human drama offers a powerful vision of the greatest migration in human history. http://adsales.discovery.com-ice age Columbus:…

Hello Cloudy….could not copy and paste the above for some reason, so typed it out.

This was shown as one program from 1-3 am November 7, 2005 on the Discovery Channel and I thought you might be interested if you did not see it.

It was an entertaining two hours, although with scant evidence, existing of a ‘spear point’ found in Virginia and a comparison of DNA and carbon dating correlating to 17,000 year old remains in Europe and North America.

Aside from the usual reference to ‘Clovis points’ found in New Mexico, I think, dating around 13,000 years ago this evidence seems to imply that European DNA is found in approximately 25 percent of Native American samples from more recent times.

The program provided information I had not seen before, as traditional archeology cites the Bering Land Bridge from Asia as the major migration pathway for Native American Peoples.

My search turned up only the two references under “Ice Age Columbus: Who Were The First Americans? Both sources from Discovery Channel entries.

Amicus

 

[cloudy]

Startling DNA evidence and new archeological finds could change what we believe about human evolution forever. Ice Age Columbus: Who Were The First Americans: portrays the epic journey of the prehistoric discover of America 17,000, an accomplishment brought to life by cutting-edge science research. Following a clan of daring European stone age hunters across 3,000 miles of ocean to their first settlement in what is now the northeastern U.S. From the producers of the classic Discovery Channel special the Neanderthal’s World, this two part human drama offers a powerful vision of the greatest migration in human history. http://adsales.discovery.com-ice age Columbus:…

Hello Cloudy….could not copy and paste the above for some reason, so typed it out.

This was shown as one program from 1-3 am November 7, 2005 on the Discovery Channel and I thought you might be interested if you did not see it.

It was an entertaining two hours, although with scant evidence, existing of a ‘spear point’ found in Virginia and a comparison of DNA and carbon dating correlating to 17,000 year old remains in Europe and North America.

Aside from the usual reference to ‘Clovis points’ found in New Mexico, I think, dating around 13,000 years ago this evidence seems to imply that European DNA is found in approximately 25 percent of Native American samples from more recent times.

The program provided information I had not seen before, as traditional archeology cites the Bering Land Bridge from Asia as the major migration pathway for Native American Peoples.

My search turned up only the two references under “Ice Age Columbus: Who Were The First Americans? Both sources from Discovery Channel entries.

Amicus

Thanks, ami.

I saw it listed, but didn't get the chance to watch it, unfortunately.

I've known for a good while that caucasian DNA shows up pretty regularly. It's the actual source of that DNA that is the question.

Some say that the vikings were here back during the middle ages, and that's why there were "white" Mandans. I've also noticed that the Ojibwes up in Canada that I'm friends with are much lighter skinned than even I am, and my father was white.

It's a mystery, for sure, but a fascinating one.

 

[R. Richard]

I've known for a good while that caucasian DNA shows up pretty regularly. It's the actual source of that DNA that is the question.

Some say that the vikings were here back during the middle ages, and that's why there were "white" Mandans. I've also noticed that the Ojibwes up in Canada that I'm friends with are much lighter skinned than even I am, and my father was white.

It's a mystery, for sure, but a fascinating one.

Perhaps I can be of help. There is a legend among the Eastern Inuit that a ship landed bearing 12 white men and some families. Some of the white men were giants and some were dwarves. However, even the dwarves were very strong.

The best guess of which I am aware is that the 12 white men were Northmen who had left Greenland. The conditions in Greenland were simply too harsh to allow Europeans to live there with the primitive technology they had at that time. The conditions began to produce dwarves, mainly due to malnutrition. Supposedly the white men set up a house that was at least very similar to the kind of house traditionally used by Northmen.

If there was a migration, the migration probably took place around the year 1000. It is worth noting that the Eastern Inuit found by the Europeans were both lighter and taller then the Western Inuit. Northmen may be a part of the ancestry of the Eastern Inuit.

 

[R. Richard]

Amicus:
I do not even have a TV set. I tried the Discovery.com reference, but obtained nothing. Can you furnish any other information/reference? TIA!

 

[cloudy]

Perhaps I can be of help. There is a legend among the Eastern Inuit that a ship landed bearing 12 white men and some families. Some of the white men were giants and some were dwarves. However, even the dwarves were very strong.

The best guess of which I am aware is that the 12 white men were Northmen who had left Greenland. The conditions in Greenland were simply too harsh to allow Europeans to live there with the primitive technology they had at that time. The conditions began to produce dwarves, mainly due to malnutrition. Supposedly the white men set up a house that was at least very similar to the kind of house traditionally used by Northmen.

If there was a migration, the migration probably took place around the year 1000. It is worth noting that the Eastern Inuit found by the Europeans were both lighter and taller then the Western Inuit. Northmen may be a part of the ancestry of the Eastern Inuit.

There's also the Owl-Eyes.

 

[amicus]

Actually, the Viking expeditions to Martha's Vineryard, seem more possible.

This show postulates a clan in Southern France or Spain, following the ice floe around the mile high glacier as they chased seals for food, as the impetus for discovery; then they got lost, the leader died and they somehow landed in the 'Grand Banks' which at that time were above sea level.

Far fetched for me...


amicus....

 

[R. Richard]

There's also the Owl-Eyes.

And also Kennewick man.

 

[cloudy]

Actually, the Viking expeditions to Martha's Vineryard, seem more possible.

This show postulates a clan in Southern France or Spain, following the ice floe around the mile high glacier as they chased seals for food, as the impetus for discovery; then they got lost, the leader died and they somehow landed in the 'Grand Banks' which at that time were above sea level.

Far fetched for me...


amicus....

It's not so far fetched. The human race is very good at survival under some of the harshest conditions. I don't suppose we'll ever really know, but it's the fact that it is a mystery that makes it so fascinating.

 

[amicus]

Yes, I have been following the Kennewick man saga for years.

Yes...we will never know with certainty and it will always remain a mystery; but many things seem to become less mysterious as time passes and techniques improve...we shall see.


amicus...

(edited to add: In volume two of my "Chief' series...I have added a character with blue eye color and two other characters, near the end, with 'white eyes' and straw colored hair...justifying the addition by the 'Kennewick man' possibilities.)

 

[R. Richard]

Yes, I have been following the Kennewick man saga for years.

Yes...we will never know with certainty and it will always remain a mystery; but many things seem to become less mysterious as time passes and techniques improve...we shall see.


amicus...

It may not. A court has ruled that scientists can have access to the Kennewick man remains. I suspect that there are more legal battles to be fought, but that eventually it may be possible to determine exactly who Kennewick man is. Intriguing!

 

[TheEarl]

I remember someone on Lit bringing up a report on an expedition of Welshmen who built a settlement in America a while back.

The Earl

 

[cloudy]

I remember someone on Lit bringing up a report on an expedition of Welshmen who built a settlement in America a while back.

The Earl

That would be me.

I'm having a brain fart on the guy's name right now, but the legends say that he brought three ships here around 800 or 900 AD, and I read something last year that they'd found some Danish writing in a cave, somewhere up in the Northeast, that they'd dated to right around 1000 AD.

 

[neonlyte]

Perhaps I can be of help. There is a legend among the Eastern Inuit that a ship landed bearing 12 white men and some families. Some of the white men were giants and some were dwarves. However, even the dwarves were very strong.

The best guess of which I am aware is that the 12 white men were Northmen who had left Greenland. The conditions in Greenland were simply too harsh to allow Europeans to live there with the primitive technology they had at that time. The conditions began to produce dwarves, mainly due to malnutrition. Supposedly the white men set up a house that was at least very similar to the kind of house traditionally used by Northmen.

If there was a migration, the migration probably took place around the year 1000. It is worth noting that the Eastern Inuit found by the Europeans were both lighter and taller then the Western Inuit. Northmen may be a part of the ancestry of the Eastern Inuit.

The West coast of Greenland was settled by 'vikings' out of Iceland between 900 and 1490. Of the three main settlements Western, Middle and Eastern there is archeological evidence they shared settlement with Inuits in both Western (the most Northerly) and Middle. In summer months the vikings travelled north to the Inuit hunting grounds around Disco Island (I kind you not - sounds like all night parties). There are at least three known explorations to the American continent - 985 Bjarni Herjolfsson explored the coast of Labrador (Markland to the vikings). Circa 1000 Leif Eirikson followed Herjolfsson sitings and proceeded down as far as Vineland (Nova Scotia) and in the early 1000's (1000 - 1020) a settlement was established on the tip of Newfoundland at L'Anse aux Meadows. Vikings continued to visit Markland for construction timber up until 1347.

Given the trading links and shared settlements with the Inuit over a period of 400 years it is more than likely that the gene pool became mixed.

Edit: I'm dubious of Welsh claims. The Welsh barely feature as explorers, and were largely ignored by the Vikings. Vikings were certainly on the Western coast of Ireland in the early 800's and through that century rounded the Iberian Peninsular and sacked the Western coast of Italy, they thought nothing of long voyages and might easily have made the crossing to America. Of course we can never know, they didn't return, if they had they would have made the Saga's.