Flash insight on voting chicanery

[Voboy]

Why is this worth quarreling about? I have sent other writing to contest where there are 'expert judges.' Or you can do it like the Oscars where it is a combo popularity contest, honest reflection of industry appreciation and campaign. And here that could be totally apart from whether the story really lights people's fires.

You're not following me. I'm not quarreling. I'm not saying this can't be done, nor am I saying that it's not done on other sites.

I'm asking you to understand that any suggestion of this sort needs to make life easier for Laurel, or it needs to increase utility to the READERS (as opposed to the writers). I don't think your idea does either of those things. So I think it's pure fiction.

This is a site for lighting peoples' fires. Nothing more, nothing less. Why would the site owners promote any other interest than that?

 

[EmilyMiller]

But the first doesn't ever happen and even the second would be rare. Like I say elsewhere, it usually takes several thousand views to tip the hot button.

It happens all the time - just not to you. You can’t throw around generalities like that.

This sounds like low bar, but I'm often seeing one vote for three or four hundred views on my stuff. So maybe ten thousand views to get 25 votes, at best.

I see one vote for about every 80 views. So only 2,000 views for 25 votes on average.

 

[RejectReality]

The only thing that changes when you replace a ratings based contest with a judge based contest is the villain who cheated you out of your rightful win.

 

[SmilingLez]

The only thing that changes when you replace a ratings based contest with a judge based contest is the villain who cheated you out of your rightful win.

"Villains to the left of me, villains to the right of me, stuck with the status quo either way"

Edit - nod to Stealers Wheel’s Stuck in the Middle with You

 

[GemmaGemmaGemma]

Someone should dedicate their life to trying to win a contest from the loving wives category. Not me though.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Someone should dedicate their life to trying to win a contest from the loving wives category. Not me though.

If they bring back the monthlies, at least you can win Best Loving Wives Story.

 

[RejectReality]

Someone should dedicate their life to trying to win a contest from the loving wives category. Not me though.

LW has taken more than one spot in themed contests. Not many, but it's not been shut out. Same for monthlies. There's at least one that I noticed while going through 2019 to 2023, despite not really looking at category.

 

[LargoKitt]

This is a site for lighting peoples' fires. Nothing more, nothing less. Why would the site owners promote any other interest than that?

Because they call it Literotica rather than SexyStories. And if Laurel anointed a passel of the voluntary editors on this site to vet stories that would do the trick.

 

[Voboy]

Because they call it Literotica rather than SexyStories.

It's entirely possible to find any kind of erotica here, both literary and shitterary. I think that's a feature, not a bug.

And if Laurel anointed a passel of the voluntary editors on this site to vet stories that would do the trick.

I mean, okay? But it's been almost 30 years and Laurel has shown zero interest in doing that.

Why do you think this is a realistic suggestion? I think TPTB like the site pretty much as-is. Which is their prerogative. There are quite a few writers who seem to disagree with how they do things, and so far they've achieved nothing as far as influencing the direction of the site. I'm not sure whether that's your intent, but if not, then it's just idle wishcraft.

 

[LargoKitt]

It happens all the time - just not to you. You can’t throw around generalities like that.


I see one vote for about every 80 views. So only 2,000 views for 25 votes on average.

So that suggests to me that authors who already have solid followings are pretty much going to win contests. Newbie might arrive with a great tale but it likely will be passed over for a while until she gains some ground here. This is why I would love to see contests vetted by some judges chosen by Laurel.

 

[LargoKitt]

But it's been almost 30 years and Laurel has shown zero interest in doing that.

Why do you think this is a realistic suggestion? I think TPTB like the site pretty much as-is.

I get why you are content with the status quo. Perhaps Laurel appreciates that you are her Sir Launcelot defending her against dragons of overwork. Got it. OTOH, this is a friggin' authors forum and we might feel free to raise a different flag now and again.

 

[Voboy]

I get why you are content with the status quo. Perhaps Laurel appreciates that you are her Sir Launcelot defending her against dragons of overwork. Got it. OTOH, this is a friggin' authors forum and we might feel free to raise a different flag now and again.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Where did I defend the status quo? I'm not terribly happy with the voting either, but she clearly is. That's the point. You need to show that your bold new idea gives the site something the owners are likely to want, and I don't think you've tried particularly hard. You didn't even know how much the contest prizes were worth, when it was a detail that undermined your entire point.

I'm curious what you're after. Are you advocating a change, or are you just venting? If it's the former, you've come nowhere close to meeting your burden by showing desirability. If it's the latter, well, you're being unoriginal: this is about the forty-thousandth different thread doing the same thing.

 

[EmilyMiller]

So that suggests to me that authors who already have solid followings are pretty much going to win contests. Newbie might arrive with a great tale but it likely will be passed over for a while until she gains some ground here. This is why I would love to see contests vetted by some judges chosen by Laurel.

That’s a total non-sequitur and we have had a lot of people placing with their first or second story, or without a large following.

 

[MelissaBaby]

So that suggests to me that authors who already have solid followings are pretty much going to win contests. Newbie might arrive with a great tale but it likely will be passed over for a while until she gains some ground here. This is why I would love to see contests vetted by some judges chosen by Laurel.

Winners of the most recent contest, Summer Lovin':

1st Place Anthrodisiac 165 followers
2nd Place. DaveIsaacs1031 327 followers
3rd Place. WittyUserName. 2029 followers

Only one of the winners has a significant number of followers

 

[FrancesScott]

So that suggests to me that authors who already have solid followings are pretty much going to win contests. Newbie might arrive with a great tale but it likely will be passed over for a while until she gains some ground here. This is why I would love to see contests vetted by some judges chosen by Laurel.

I have 181 followers today. I believe I had less than 100 when I placed third in the 2026 Valentine’s contest. What you claim is just not born out by the facts.

 

[RejectReality]

Let's grab a few more.

Nude Day '26: 1.6k, 461, 132
April Fools '26: 2.6k, 1.3k, 64.3k ( Notice the one with the most followers is in 3rd place )
Valentines '26: 879, 2.3k, 181
Winter '25: 1.9k, 436, ??

So, five of 12 winners are sub 500. 7 of 15 adding in Summer Lovin'. No doubt some of those follower counts have increased dramatically because of their contest win as well.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

So that suggests to me that authors who already have solid followings are pretty much going to win contests. Newbie might arrive with a great tale but it likely will be passed over for a while until she gains some ground here. This is why I would love to see contests vetted by some judges chosen by Laurel.

If that were true people like @lovecraft68 would win every contest he enters. It doesn't seem to work that way.
I've got a small following but it doesn't take 10,000 views for me to get 25 votes.
My entry in the music challenge got 270 votes on 8100 views. So 1 per 30 views, nothing crazy about that. My entry in the current contest is averaging 1 per 60.

 

[SmilingLez]

The irony is that a discussion about whether contests reward popularity has turned into a competition over whose statistics, follower counts, and placements prove their point.

Everyone is busy defending the legitimacy of the system from their own position within it. Which rather neatly illustrates the problem: the people benefiting from a system can sincerely believe it's fair.

And replacing popular voting with judges doesn't eliminate bias. It just changes who gets to exercise it.

YMMV

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I get why you are content with the status quo. Perhaps Laurel appreciates that you are her Sir Launcelot defending her against dragons of overwork. Got it. OTOH, this is a friggin' authors forum and we might feel free to raise a different flag now and again.

If we made @Voboy king for a day there would undoubtedly be a significant number of changes around here.
You can understand why Lit works the way it does without agreeing with it, or even liking it.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

The irony is that a discussion about whether contests reward popularity has turned into a competition over whose statistics, follower counts, and placements prove their point.

Everyone is busy defending the legitimacy of the system from their own position within it. Which rather neatly illustrates the problem: the people benefiting from a system can sincerely believe it's fair.

And replacing popular voting with judges doesn't eliminate bias. It just changes who gets to exercise it.

YMMV

I'm not defending the legitimacy of anything.
It's an arbitrary system, but it serves Its purpose.
To paraphrase a likely apocryphal Churchill quote, it's a terrible system, but it's better than anything else that's ever been tried.

And you are 100% correct, if we went to a system with judges people would just find a whole litany of new things to complain about.

 

[Voboy]

You can understand why Lit works the way it does without agreeing with it, or even liking it.

The internet is SO BAD at this.

Describing reality is not the same as thinking it's awesome, but that's a level of nuance that seems to be too profound for some people. It's so odd to me.

If I were king for a day, the first change would be free beer for all contest participants. PARTICIPANTS, not winners.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

The internet is SO BAD at this.

Describing reality is not the same as thinking it's awesome, but that's a level of nuance that seems to be too profound for some people. It's so odd to me.

If I were king for a day, the first change would be free beer for all contest participants. PARTICIPANTS, not winners.

Oh my God!!!! Why do you hate people who don't enter contests!!!!

 

[Voboy]

Oh my God!!!! Why do you hate people who don't enter contests!!!!

...fine.

Two beers for those who don't enter.

Being king is so easy.

 

[RejectReality]

No matter what, every story I've read that's placed has deserved to be there in my eyes. Never once have I looked at a story and thought it didn't deserve to be there. The absolute best may not always rise to the top, but what gets there is always worth a read and deserving of being honored.

There hasn't been a contest since the first primate gained sentience that hasn't resulted in someone with purple feet from mashing sour grapes.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

The irony is that a discussion about whether contests reward popularity has turned into a competition over whose statistics, follower counts, and placements prove their point.

Everyone is busy defending the legitimacy of the system from their own position within it. Which rather neatly illustrates the problem: the people benefiting from a system can sincerely believe it's fair.

And replacing popular voting with judges doesn't eliminate bias. It just changes who gets to exercise it.

YMMV

Replacing popular voting with judges wouldn't eliminate bias for sure. But it would ensure that people voting know something about writing rather than just rewarding content as most readers seem to do.

Still, this is all idle talk, and not just because Laurel would never do it, but because it's literally impossible for human judges to read what's typically more than hundred contest entries in any reasonable amount of time, let alone keep a realistic ranking of so many stories in their heads. The current system is all that's possible.

Once again, I am surprised I'm alone in my position about Laurel deciding winners. The scores stories end the competition with are nowhere near what readers voted. The votes are processed by a flawed sweeping algorithm many times, but what's even more important is that Laurel is the one who decides whether to do another sweep or to end the competition.
It's Laurel who takes a look at the three highest rated stories ( and their authors) that emerged after the sweep and says: "I am not doing another sweep, these authors won."

I don't think that anyone can dispute what I wrote, but the thing that would certainly rile up the AH is: Is there some specific intent that guides Laurel's decision about the final sweep?

I think there is such intent, although it's not necessarily personal favoritism.