Flash insight on voting chicanery

[LargoKitt]

Reading somebody's post about getting low votes I spotted something I had not figured in before: The author was writing a story for a *contest* that promised *money* to the winner. The 'aha moment'. Of course. People must be gaming contests in order to land bucks. Lovely arena where your supporting 'clack' can be anonymous and saboteurs are also invisible. It isn't just snarky 17 year old trolls who kick over 'sand castles' and say, "I did that." Or Steven Miller saying, "I made him president." It *could* be very real friends who get a cut of the $1500 if they can boost you and trash the competition. All a surmise, of course, since voting is a black box. But dang, I hadn't ever figured in MONEY.

 

[EmilyMiller]

$1500

$150

That probably makes it worse of course…

 

[ElectricBlue]

Reading somebody's post about getting low votes I spotted something I had not figured in before: The author was writing a story for a *contest* that promised *money* to the winner. The 'aha moment'. Of course. People must be gaming contests in order to land bucks. Lovely arena where your supporting 'clack' can be anonymous and saboteurs are also invisible. It isn't just snarky 17 year old trolls who kick over 'sand castles' and say, "I did that." Or Steven Miller saying, "I made him president." It *could* be very real friends who get a cut of the $1500 if they can boost you and trash the competition. All a surmise, of course, since voting is a black box. But dang, I hadn't ever figured in MONEY.

It's not $1500, but yes, Contests have prize money, which brings out the worst behaviour in some people. It's one of the reasons (not sure if it's the primary reason these days) for shitty behaviour.

 

[LargoKitt]

$150

That probably makes it worse of course…

Noted. Though I swear I saw the larger figure. And yeah, If you are popular enough to pick up a chunk of change every couple of months... Do authors 'campaign'? I know many post their doings on the home page. I don't assume anyone looks at that; or that there is any overlap between forums and readers. Most of my stories rate nicely above 4.5 but I never get a feeling of "Geezy whizzy there's a new hot Largokitt tale bursting on the scene."

 

[ElectricBlue]

Noted. Though I swear I saw the larger figure. And yeah, If you are popular enough to pick up a chunk of change every couple of months... Do authors 'campaign'? I know many post their doings on the home page. I don't assume anyone looks at that; or that there is any overlap between forums and readers. Most of my stories rate nicely above 4.5 but I never get a feeling of "Geezy whizzy there's a new hot Largokitt tale bursting on the scene."

When I joined Lit 14 years ago, Contests brought out appalling behaviours from competing groups of writers - the writers, more so than the fans.

Around that time, the AHMod was introduced, and the worst of the cabals disappeared, thank goodness. It was feral behaviour, frankly. That was also when sweeps were introduced, IIRC - they might have already existed, not sure.

 

[Britva415]

So what about when it’s not for a contest?

 

[anthrodisiac]

Noted. Though I swear I saw the larger figure. And yeah, If you are popular enough to pick up a chunk of change every couple of months... Do authors 'campaign'? I know many post their doings on the home page. I don't assume anyone looks at that; or that there is any overlap between forums and readers. Most of my stories rate nicely above 4.5 but I never get a feeling of "Geezy whizzy there's a new hot Largokitt tale bursting on the scene."

I'm sure some do broader campaigns, get out the vote type stuff. But unless you don't get a ton of votes already, that probably won't do all that much if you're getting 50, 100, 200 votes from your regular followers or people stumbling on the story. It might help out on the margins. Some people definitely have more enthusiastic fans than others.

 

[Voboy]

And yeah, If you are popular enough to pick up a chunk of change every couple of months... Do authors 'campaign'? I know many post their doings on the home page. I don't assume anyone looks at that; or that there is any overlap between forums and readers.

I suspect that campaigning, in order to be effective, would need to be fairly widespread and obvious. It’s a near-certainty that the rest of us would be likely to pick up on it.

Regardless, I don’t buy your premise. The same writers don’t really pick up that chunk of change every couple of months.

 

[Mastered_again]

Until very recently, I had no idea that contests offers prize money, but shouldn't we already know that chicanery was the reason Al Gore created the internet

 

[Trionyx]

The mere thought that someone who spends hours upon hours writing, fine tuning, editing, rereading is doing it for the money is ludicrous. In my case, it would pencil out to less than3 bucks an hour for a longer story. I bet the contests would still get as many entries if there were no prize money and the back stabbing and one bombing would still continue.

 

[LargoKitt]

I'm sure some do broader campaigns, get out the vote type stuff. But unless you don't get a ton of votes already, that probably won't do all that much if you're getting 50, 100, 200 votes from your regular followers or people stumbling on the story. It might help out on the margins. Some people definitely have more enthusiastic fans than others.

Usually takes my stories many weeks to get that kind of votes.

 

[Imstillfun]

If it were about the money and score wouldn’t we all post incest stories? And voting scores are a lso driven by the category you post in. I’m a loving wives/group sex kind of gal. So no way I’m getting paid.

 

[LargoKitt]

I suspect that campaigning, in order to be effective, would need to be fairly widespread and obvious. It’s a near-certainty that the rest of us would be likely to pick up on it.

Regardless, I don’t buy your premise. The same writers don’t really pick up that chunk of change every couple of months.

Generic reaction to the fact that some writers are quite popular. No direct equation into votes or contest wins, but I haven't done a formal tally.

 

[LargoKitt]

I guess I wish contests were won because the stories were good, more than that they were popular. I kind of cherish my one E from Laurel and Manu. It's for a 'How To', but I'll take it. (That one was also a contest winner, but I never saw any $$.)

 

[Voboy]

I guess I wish contests were won because the stories were good, more than that they were popular.

I'm sorry, but this is a chimera. Who says whether a story is "good?"

That standard will always be subjective. The current voting system has many issues, but the more complicated you make the voting, the worse this place gets.

Contests are a known quantity. Of course people with more followers have an advantage, but please don't act as though those with many followers didn't need to work to get those followers: most of them grinded out story after story, in some cases for years, to build that following. Don't minimize that.

But, again, your premise is flawed. I have more than a few contest wins. You'd think I'd have the system down to a science by now, and yet I don't. Because, from my perspective, the current system is chaotic enough to defy predictability. I think that's a benefit, as far as competitive advantages (or disadvantages) go. I also have more than a few followers: one thing I can tell you for certain is that those followers don't even come close to translating to the "instant votes" you seem to think occur.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I have won six contests and would likely have won a few more if the monthlies had continued, so I've definitely got some thoughts on this issue.

I don't doubt that there have, on occasion, been authors who have used alts to one bomb to knock down competitors, but I don't think that has been common, at least in my time here. For one thing, the last minute sweeps make it very difficult to determine which stories are the actual contenders. I have had stories get enough of a boost at the last minute to place in the top three, and I've had stories with the highest score shortly before the deadline get passed by other stories that got their own boosts. Nobody can predict the ultimate winners, so how would you know who to target.

I think it is more common for fans of particular authors to try to shoot down those they see as competition to their favorites. Some people might one bomb authors who have won previously, thinking "give someone else a chance." And then there are those killjoys that are just drawn to spoiling things for others.

As for campaigning, it definitely goes on. When I've had stories nominated for Readers Choice, I've put a link to them in my sig line, with a "For your consideration" message. Lots of other authors have done the same.

And there is always off site campaigning. Many authors post links to their stories on Twitter, Reddit, Bluesky, etc. I think that creates some advantage, but not much.

 

[MelissaBaby]

If it were about the money and score wouldn’t we all post incest stories? And voting scores are a lso driven by the category you post in. I’m a loving wives/group sex kind of gal. So no way I’m getting paid.

The monthly contests were for highest score in each category. In the themed contests, I think the readership is spread out across the site so broadly, that there is very little advantage to any particular category.

 

[anthrodisiac]

I guess I wish contests were won because the stories were good, more than that they were popular.

The minimum requirement for eligibility is 25 votes, so even more niche stories have a shot. A story doesn't have to be popular, it just has to be loved by at least roughly 25 people and it can win. Popularity helps insulate against the inevitable bombing and people who legitimately don't like it (let's not pretend that all "bad" votes are obviously fraudulent, people are allowed to vote what they choose), but is no guarantee. Like @Voboy says, it just makes things steadier than stories who don't have as many votes. I'm sure if you looked at the winners over the years, you'd find authors with higher followers, or stories that are in high-traffic categories win more frequently than authors with fewer followers or in niche categories, but I know there have been times when an author literally submitted their first story and won.

Edit: And "good" is subjective. A story can be both popular and good. A lot of people love the story that won, but there are certainly going to be those who hated it. I'd be surprised if the "popular" stories that won were utter garbage. They had to beat out other stories that were probably just as, if not more, popular, so there has to be something to them.*

*I guess there doesn't have to be, but it seems pretty likely.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I guess I wish contests were won because the stories were good, more than that they were popular. I kind of cherish my one E from Laurel and Manu. It's for a 'How To', but I'll take it. (That one was also a contest winner, but I never saw any $$.)

A story with 100 views and a 4.90 score will beat one with 1,000 views and a 4.80 score so it isn't just popularity.

You have to be proactive about getting your prize. If you win, contact Laurel and give her your info to collect. The smart thing to do is create an Amazon account with a separate email address and take your prize as a gift certificate, so you don't have to give out any personal info.

 

[Voboy]

A story with 100 views and a 4.90 score will beat one with 1,000 views and a 4.80 score so it isn't just popularity.

This, and there used to be learned discussions here about whether it was wisest to post late, at the tail-end of the submission period, to thus maximize the value of those early votes, many of which are probably inflated.

This whole discussion, though, is predicated on what I think is the mistaken notion that a large number of writers truly intend to win. Speaking for myself, that's not really a consideration and it never has been. I mean, I certainly like to win, but I know how the contests work. Meaning I never, ever expect to. You write your best piece to the theme, you categorize it as best you can for your desired audience, you make friends in the support threads, and you tip your cap to the winner. Fun for all.

I do think that if the prize was really $1500, that'd be a game-changer. I think Laurel chose a good prize money amount: it's enough to feel like you actually won something, but nowhere near enough to think of yourself as a semi-pro writer.

 

[old_prof]

No author can win every few months with the current system. If you win prize in a themed contest, you cannot win again for the next two contests, meaning in the extreme no one could win more than every six months. I do not believe there has been any repeat prize winners in the last 9 contests (roughly 18 months). That's 27 unique actors winning prizes.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

The type of person who would gather up their own little army to drop a 1-nuclear to Lit just to boost their chances for a contest for 150 Yeehaws! is the same type of miserable asshat who breaks into a house just to steal all of the lightbulbs and sell them out on their own.

It's just saddens me to say that this caricature isn't at all exaggerated, but years ago there have been burglaries where lightbulbs got stolen from front porches. I don't want to both cry and laugh at the same time, so don't ask about it.

 

[MelissaBaby]

Consider this:



That's what you get when you have people actually vote, rather than base the winner on scores.

40 voters. 18 votes was an easy win.

Well deserved, though. That story is fucking hilarious.

(RIP Ogg)

 

[deathlynx]

Around that time, the AHMod was introduced, and the worst of the cabals disappeared, thank goodness. It was feral behaviour, frankly. That was also when sweeps were introduced, IIRC - they might have already existed, not sure.

Pretty sure sweeps have always been there. But I do remember some of the clique-ish behavior. Always tried to keep my head low and stay out of it myself.

 

[LargoKitt]

I'm sorry, but this is a chimera. Who says whether a story is "good?"

I know what you mean by this. And there is enough stuff and range of tastes and styles here that the evaluation is moot. That said, I have a personal eye out that, in my personal book, I would call good literature. Someone has taken the time to write well, with originality and creative language. May not be the best formula for giving one hand Mary a workout. But I could see a sitch in which the editors and guest judges pick out some stories with surpassing creativity.