Feminists say that due process is tantamount to misogyny in rape cases

[LJ_Reloaded]

Proof that feminists want special rights for women - in no other crime case do we just believe the accuser. 'Innocent until proven guilty' is the rule, except in rape cases, if feminists get their way.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/post...-we-should-automatically-believe-rape-claims/

No matter what Jackie said, we should generally believe rape claims

In last month’s deep and damning Rolling Stone report about sexual assault at the University of Virginia, a reporter told the story of “Jackie,” who said she was gang raped at a fraternity party and then essentially ignored by the administration. It helped dramatize what happens when the claims of victims are not taken seriously.

Now the narrative appears to be falling apart: Her rapist wasn’t in the frat that she says he was a member of; the house held no party on the night of the assault; and other details are wobbly. Many people (not least U-Va. administrators) will be tempted to see this as a reminder that officials, reporters and the general public should hear both sides of the story and collect all the evidence before coming to a conclusion in rape cases. This is what we mean in America when we say someone is “innocent until proven guilty.” After all, look what happened to the Duke lacrosse players.

In important ways, this is wrong. We should believe, as a matter of default, what an accuser says. Ultimately, the costs of wrongly disbelieving a survivor far outweigh the costs of calling someone a rapist. Even if Jackie fabricated her account, U-Va. should have taken her word for it during the period while they endeavored to prove or disprove the accusation. This is not a legal argument about what standards we should use in the courts; it’s a moral one, about what happens outside the legal system.

The accused would have a rough period. He might be suspended from his job; friends might defriend him on Facebook. In the case of Bill Cosby, we might have to stop watching his shows, consuming his books or buying tickets to his traveling stand-up routine. But false accusations are exceedingly rare, and errors can be undone by an investigation that clears the accused, especially if it is done quickly.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I call this exibit AA9000.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I call this exibit AA9000.

I call this exhibit AA9000 of you demanding special rights for women, not equality.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

St. Thomas student faces long suspension but no charges in sexual encounter

http://www.startribune.com/long-sus...red-of-on-campus-sex-assault-claim/377852501/

At St. Olaf College in Northfield, student Madeline Wilson raised eyebrows with her T-shirt: "Ask me how my college is protecting my rapist." Wilson said she was raped by another student in a dorm last May. She said the school cleared him in a campus investigation that she believes was deeply flawed.

The suit against St. Thomas, filed with accompanying St. Paul police reports and correspondence between defense attorney Beau McGraw, the plaintiff and university officials, goes into explicit detail about how the encounter played out between the two identified in the suit as John Doe and Jane Doe:

The two acquaintances met at a dorm party in Brady Hall on the evening of Dec. 11. Both had several drinks. They soon were holding hands and rubbing each others' backs. John asked Jane whether she wanted to make out, and she replied "maybe later."

They went with others to an off-campus house party, kissed in the backyard and then walked to a lounge in the campus dorm where Jane lives. She straddled him and started unbuttoning his shirt, according to John Doe's court filings. Later, he alleged, she fondled him, which he took as a "clear indication of her consent" and he penetrated her digitally. John asked her to go further, but she declined. The two parted about 1:30 a.m.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Evidence exhibit #AA9002 of MUH SOGGY KNEES

https://www.insidehighered.com/news...against-colleges-punished-them-sexual-assault

Colleges lose series of rulings in suits brought by male students accused of sex assault. In stinging decisions, judges fault lack of due process.

The case joins three other legal wins for accused students in the past two months, and at least 10 in the last year. Some legal experts, including the federal and state judges deciding the cases, say the flurry of recent successes for disciplined students may show how some colleges and universities are eliminating “basic procedural protections” in an attempt to combat campus sexual assault.

“In over 20 years of reviewing higher education law cases, I’ve never seen such a string of legal setbacks for universities, both public and private, in student conduct cases.” Gary Pavela, editor of the the Association of Student Conduct Administration's Law and Policy's Report and former president of the International Center for Academic Integrity, said. “Something is going seriously wrong. These precedents are unprecedented.”

As recently as a year ago, accused students seemed destined to lose lawsuits challenging their penalties. In May, it was widely believed that there had been just one such case in recent memory -- a lawsuit brought against the University of the South in 2011 -- that made it to court and had a favorable outcome for an accused student. Though a few cases have seen success in the way of pretrial settlements -- including recently at the University of Colorado at Boulder, Swarthmore College and Xavier University in Ohio -- many more have been dismissed outright.

Then, in July, a California trial court judge ruled that the University of California at San Diego must reverse the suspension of a male student who allegedly assaulted a female student. The student accused the university of violating his due process rights by presuming his guilt ahead of a hearing, not allowing the accused student access to witnesses and evidence, and informing a hearing panel of his guilt instead of letting the panel reach its own conclusion. The judge in the case agreed.

Muh soggy knees - it smells like victory from here, folks.

 

[badbabysitter]

After reading all the posts, two things stand out


1. Feminists were never mentioned

2. At no point did the never mentioned feminists say that due process is tantamount to misogyny in rape cases


in order for you to prove some thing about someone you have to show where that person actually does the thing you claim

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

After reading all the posts, two things stand out


1. Feminists were never mentioned

2. At no point did the never mentioned feminists say that due process is tantamount to misogyny in rape cases


in order for you to prove some thing about someone you have to show where that person actually does the thing you claim

This is like saying racists weren't ever mentioned when someone guns down a church full of black people

or misogynists weren't actually mentioned when a crazed gunman shoots up a school full of women

feminist lolgic 101, folks

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

Feminist lolgic strikes again.
http://www.thedp.com/article/2015/02/response-letter-penn-law-school-faculty

In your “Open Letter”of last week, you set aside your own political disagreements to denigrate policies that could lead to safety and educational equality. By conflating the extensive procedural protections rightly afforded to criminal defendants with “fundamental fairness” in the context of a school disciplinary proceeding, your letter perpetuates the harmful myth that survivors of sexual violence should be disbelieved, silenced and denied non-criminal relief unless they seek and obtain criminal conviction of their assailant.

No, “due process of law is not window dressing,” and you have misstated the law of due process in the university setting. It is generally established that public universities owe students minimal due process rights, and private universities owe them none. While you critique the U.S. Department of Education Office of Civil Rights’ guidance that the evidentiary standard used should be a “preponderance of the evidence” standard instead of “clear and convincing” evidence, as a legal matter, private universities can discipline students with no process whatsoever. They must only adhere to the contract set forth by their own policies. Thus, the “Open Letter” must be seen for what it is: a disagreement with Title IX’s mandate that sexual assault survivors not be made to struggle through grievance procedures that specially insulate those accused of sexual assault. This policy, and the OCR’s guidance, was designed to fight the pernicious effects of sexism — including sexual harassment and assault — on our campus. Title IX, a civil rights law, mandates this policy for the purpose of ensuring that people are not denied the ability to pursue and enjoy their education on the basis of sex. The proceedings required are not criminal-light proceedings, despite your attempts to portray them as such. Although Penn’s data on discipline is sadly lacking, grievance proceedings are generally remarkable for the lack of consequences for those found to have committed a sexual assault. Few students found responsible for sexual assault in university adjudications are even expelled — between 13 percent and 30 percent by a recent count.

Furthermore, perhaps because you know full well that Penn students have no claim to due process in this setting, you failed to explore what your arguments mean in the context of actual due process at state universities. If you had, you would know that it is well established that due process allows state schools to expel students for any misconduct using an even lower evidentiary standard than that at issue here, that of “substantial evidence.” Why do you think it should be legally harder to expel someone for rape than for moving newspapers, or cheating or assaulting a police officer? The answer again is that your “fairness” standard has a basis — it’s just not in the law. And when 16 esteemed professors of law opine in a public forum, the general public will take your policy rhetoric as law, especially if it is cloaked in false appeals to the Constitution. Do you also think that people facing criminal rape charges should get special protections not afforded to other criminal defendants? Or is your concern only for Ivy League men accused of rape? One thing is certain: Your concern in this “Open Letter” is not for those of us who have been and will be sexually assaulted.

Due process is misogyny, folks.

No wonder schools are getting their asses sued off by men.

 

[badbabysitter]

This is like saying racists weren't ever mentioned when someone guns down a church full of black people

or misogynists weren't actually mentioned when a crazed gunman shoots up a school full of women

feminist lolgic 101, folks

that's classic false equivalency


in your example it would be demonstratably shown that race was an issue because they are physically identifiable attributes

or the guy shooting up specifically women would also be a tangible physical fact


but you directly made a claim that feminists stated something... it's literally your thread title

the race shooting and women shooting would be based on clearly shown facts..... if you can physically show where the feminists stated what you claimed they stated... then you'd have a case

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

that's classic false equivalency

Nope, but what you're doing is making excuses.

in your example it would be demonstratably shown that race was an issue because they are physically identifiable attributes

or the guy shooting up specifically women would also be a tangible physical fact


but you directly made a claim that feminists stated something... it's literally your thread title

the race shooting and women shooting would be based on clearly shown facts..... if you can physically show where the feminists stated what you claimed they stated... then you'd have a case

If it calls for preferential treatment for women, it's a feminist by definition.

 

[badbabysitter]

Feminist lolgic strikes again.
http://www.thedp.com/article/2015/02/response-letter-penn-law-school-faculty

Due process is misogyny, folks.

No wonder schools are getting their asses sued off by men.

also never mentioned.. that's 3 for 3 now


women are also suing the asses off schools too... but since that doesnt fit into your world view, you've never heard of it

 

[badbabysitter]

Nope, but what you're doing is making excuses.

I'm not making excuses for you making a claim and being unable to support it

If it calls for preferential treatment for women, it's a feminist by definition.

no, it's not

here's the definition of feminism

Oxford dictionary

The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

Merriam Webster

the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities

: organized activity in support of women's rights and interests


Cambridge

the belief that women should be allowed the same rights, power, and opportunities as men and be treated in the same way, or the set of activities intended to achieve this state:

so.. wrong 4 for 4 times now on claims

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

also never mentioned.. that's 3 for 3 now

In your “Open Letter”of last week, you set aside your own political disagreements to denigrate policies that could lead to safety and educational equality. By conflating the extensive procedural protections rightly afforded to criminal defendants with “fundamental fairness” in the context of a school disciplinary proceeding, your letter perpetuates the harmful myth that survivors of sexual violence should be disbelieved, silenced and denied non-criminal relief unless they seek and obtain criminal conviction of their assailant.

They said it right there. Learn to read, moron.

women are also suing the asses off schools too... but since that doesnt fit into your world view, you've never heard of it

Ho hum, women are always suing and winning. I never recognize the sun rising and setting, either, does that mean I deny its existence?

Men suing colleges and winning over sex discrimination is a totally new thing. Especially when it comes to false rape charges.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

I'm not making excuses for you making a claim and being unable to support it




no, it's not

here's the definition of feminism

Oxford dictionary

The advocacy of women’s rights on the ground of the equality of the sexes.

Merriam Webster

the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities

: organized activity in support of women's rights and interests


Cambridge

the belief that women should be allowed the same rights, power, and opportunities as men and be treated in the same way, or the set of activities intended to achieve this state:

so.. wrong 4 for 4 times now on claims

That definition is flat out wrong.

So far you're 0 for 4.

 

[badbabysitter]

That definition is flat out wrong.

So far you're 0 for 4.

and already in derp mode

please show me where feminists say that due process is tantamount to misogyny in rape cases

 

[badbabysitter]

In your “Open Letter”of last week, you set aside your own political disagreements to denigrate policies that could lead to safety and educational equality. By conflating the extensive procedural protections rightly afforded to criminal defendants with “fundamental fairness” in the context of a school disciplinary proceeding, your letter perpetuates the harmful myth that survivors of sexual violence should be disbelieved, silenced and denied non-criminal relief unless they seek and obtain criminal conviction of their assailant.

They said it right there. Learn to read, moron.

still missing the words " feminists" and " misogyny"

get back to me when you find them

Ho hum, women are always suing and winning. I never recognize the sun rising and setting, either, does that mean I deny its existence?

still missing the words feminists and misogyny, get back to me when you find them

and they're always winning? dude, it only makes the news when they win.. wow, you are so disconnected with reality

Men suing colleges and winning over sex discrimination is a totally new thing. Especially when it comes to false rape charges.

true... not to mention the women that are suing universities for attempts to cover up rape charges

I'm glad that men are finally stepping up.. but to infer that feminists are the true culprit diminishes the crimes

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

still missing the words " feminists" and " misogyny"

get back to me when you find them

She seeks special rights for women. That's a feminist.

 

[badbabysitter]

She seeks special rights for women. That's a feminist.

5 for 5

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

and already in derp mode

please show me where feminists say that due process is tantamount to misogyny in rape cases

I showed that in the OP. She is a feminist, by her actions.

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

still missing the words " feminists" and " misogyny"

get back to me when you find them

Found them!

In your “Open Letter”of last week, you set aside your own political disagreements to denigrate policies that could lead to safety and educational equality. By conflating the extensive procedural protections rightly afforded to criminal defendants with “fundamental fairness” in the context of a school disciplinary proceeding, your letter perpetuates the harmful myth that survivors of sexual violence should be disbelieved, silenced and denied non-criminal relief unless they seek and obtain criminal conviction of their assailant.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

Found them!

In your “Open Letter”of last week, you set aside your own political disagreements to denigrate policies that could lead to safety and educational equality. By conflating the extensive procedural protections rightly afforded to criminal defendants with “fundamental fairness” in the context of a school disciplinary proceeding, your letter perpetuates the harmful myth that survivors of sexual violence should be disbelieved, silenced and denied non-criminal relief unless they seek and obtain criminal conviction of their assailant.

search= feminists: Zero results
search=misogyny: Zero results

Yup, LeJackass is still unable to read even the simplest sentence without injecting his own false meaning (and now entire words) into them.

 

[badbabysitter]

Found them!

In your “Open Letter”of last week, you set aside your own political disagreements to denigrate policies that could lead to safety and educational equality. By conflating the extensive procedural protections rightly afforded to criminal defendants with “fundamental fairness” in the context of a school disciplinary proceeding, your letter perpetuates the harmful myth that survivors of sexual violence should be disbelieved, silenced and denied non-criminal relief unless they seek and obtain criminal conviction of their assailant.

please show me in bold the words " feminists", "due process", " misogyny"

please and thank you

it should be easy, since you made the claim that was what they stated

 

[LJ_Reloaded]

please show me in bold the words " feminists", "due process", " misogyny"

please and thank you

it should be easy, since you made the claim that was what they stated

NEWS FLASH!!! The word 'feminist' never has to be in there. Feminist is as feminist does.

The whole fucking country knows what a feminist looks and acts like, and that is why we don't want to be associated with you.

As for due process, literally that is the word that describes what this feminist author is opposed to.