Feminism: What is It?

[modest mouse]

That was the reason I called the idea of feminism amorphous right before I wrote the definition.

I understand that but perhaps I am more opposed to the thoughts you lumped me in with than you thought.

 

[lavender]

 

[modest mouse]

I think the docs forgot to give you an adequate amount of estrogen supplements after the sex change.

Yeah, well the pills made me moody, hard to please, and I always thought I was right.

 

[lavender]

 

[sigh]

Lavy,

"Maybe there is hope for the next generation of Texas men?"

I think Texan and I, also a Texas male by birth, are older than you by "a few" and just because of our accident of location of birth are neither stupid or unaware of the world around us. Are you being a little prejudiced because we are male.........or from somewhere south of the MDL?

"The irony of this all is that the 1/3 who are radical are usually the ones who are educated."

Sorry, spending four years in a liberal cirriculum being brainwashed that women are superior because they are women is not education, and is the major reason that "Feminism" has reached the sad level that it has today.

Still luv ya,

Runner

hey...i spent five years in a purely scientific curriculum...you know, math, physics, chemistry, quantitative analysis, physiology and that sort of stuff...obtaining a highly specialized degree, and i'm exquisitely good at what i do

nobody brainwashed me into anything

to suggest that i was is a crock

no...i'll take that back...it's insulting

 

[modest mouse]

And this was a change, how exactly?

Shut up.

 

[Natalie Nessus]

Feminism is fairness, that is it. There should be no differences in laws, car loans or marriage, yes? We are all people


I return to my wine

 

[lilminx]

Oy

Sorry, Lavy- I haven't read this entire thread- just the first page, because I want to respond to your initial question. I'm torn on it.

On the one hand, I consider myself a feminist, and always have- even at a young age. To me, feminism is believing that men and women should have equal rights, and get paid the same for the same job.

On the other hand, the term "feminist" has such a negative connotation- when I used to tell people that I was a feminist, they looked at me as if they expected me to shave my head and denounce men forever.


I still want men to pay for dinner when we go out (hell, I'm a teacher- I don't make a lot of money), but I also believe double standards should be a thing of the past. So should unequal pay.


-Forgive me if I'm being very clear or eloquent- just stating my opinion a tad bit drunkenly.

 

[Pan718]

Shut up.

Somehow this conversation just hit a low point I can hang with at this hour of the morning...

Pan
Comfortably shallow at times.
Resisting my temptation to disrupt a serious interchange.

 

[Pan718]

Hey lilminx...

Can you put the wineglasses into the kitchen sink and then come to bed you hot little subbie you...? I am still a feminist if I'm giving her what she really wants aren't I...?

A serious thought lacking serious presentation. Assistance Counselor?

 

[RhumbRunner13]

Feminism is about equality?

Laurel, you said:

"Feminism is about equality".

There is NO such thing as equality!!!
Those of us on this board, men and women are proof. There are those in any given group who excell at one level or another, this bunch has developed inquisitivness, knowledge and the use of language to a degree greater than the general public. We are not superior to anyone, other than in those talents. We excell for numerous reasons, but mostly because the intellect is UNEQUALLY higher than the norm!!!

I wish I could kick a football through the goalposts from 60 yards out 96% of the time, but I wouldn't give up my intellect to do it.

Runner

 

[Laurel]

If you go back an reread my post, you will see I said:

Feminism is about equality, not homogeneity. Wanting the same legal and financial opportunities as equally qualified men does not mean wanting to become a man.
. . .

Feminist is a political term, referring to those who believe women should be judged by their abilities, not by their gender.

I hope this clarifies things. If you don't agree that equally qualified people should get equal consideration regardless of gender, race, religion, etc., then that's your belief system.

 

[Texan]

Here is my own personal "radical" view concerning feminism. I don't feel that men are the impediment when it comes to equal opportunities for women. Women are the problem. Or should I say that it is because women are so ambivalent about their definitions of "success," that success cannot be achieved.

I still want men to pay for dinner when we go out (hell, I'm a teacher- I don't make a lot of money), but I also believe double standards should be a thing of the past. So should unequal pay.

The first quote was mine... the second was from lilminx...

I rest my case.

(note: lilminx.. I agree with you completely.)

 

[sigh]

Here is my own personal "radical" view concerning feminism. I don't feel that men are the impediment when it comes to equal opportunities for women. Women are the problem. Or should I say that it is because women are so ambivalent about their definitions of "success," that success cannot be achieved.

again, hon, it sounds as if you think this condition is gender specific...i'd argue that as many men are ambivalent about their definition of "success" as women

and on another note...i am well aware of the limits of my abilities...and i know the difference between bumping my head on a glass ceiling and bumping my head on one fashioned of my own inabilities

fortunately, i've no desire to climb upwards at this time...i like where i am and who i am (which happens to be MY definition of success, by the way)

 

[RhumbRunner13]

Sigh.

"again, hon, it sounds as if you think this condition is gender specific...i'd argue that as many men are ambivalent about their definition of "success" as women "

I would respectfully argue that point. No, I will never know what it is like to be reared as a female, but I will tell you that as a male, we are NOT allowed ambivalence! We MUST be prepared to take a female into our life, support her and the ensuing family and provide income and support till the end of our lives, PERIOD!
I have a feeling this subject IS gender specific. Until ALL women are willing to surrender the special positions afforded to them by classic society, they should not attempt to alter said society to their liking.

I like that society. I think women go through a hell in childbirth that a man will rarely face. I honor my (no more "possesive than I am her's) wife because we "belong" to each other! We are, and will remain a team. Each to do the part required to maintain that team, but one of us must be a man and the other a woman!

Runner

 

[lavender]

 

[Guest]

Re: Sigh.

 

[sigh]

Re: Feminism is about equality?

I wish I could kick a football through the goalposts from 60 yards out 96% of the time, but I wouldn't give up my intellect to do it.

if i had your intellect, i'd trade it in for just about anything...

 

[ksmybuttons]

I am a feminist.

Opportunity, availability and a RIGHT to pursue it and have the information available to make an educated choice.

There were no sports for girls when I was growing up. I had to wear a dress to school. Birth control only became available when I came of age and it was dangerous. Guidance counselors directed us women to women's work. Boys had to take shop and girls take home economics. No choice. Sex education was the film on what your period was and I have no idea what the boys saw. We didn't see it together. I learned about all the men of history, but the only women I was exposed to in school were attached to men.

After I was finished with college and was working professionally I remember being pinched on the butt at work. I was told to "deal with it" by the Human Resources Director.

If your female body parts didn't work, they just gutted you, hell, you didn't need that uterus or those ovaries. A lump in your breast? Take the whole thing off, including the muscle and the lymph nodes. You really don't need that arm. PMS and menopause are all in your head. Give the woman a tranquilizer she's just distraught and she is just making her husband miserable. Rape? She deserved it. Beat the wife. You bet, she made him do it. No such thing as a deadbeat dad. If he didn't pay the child support, it was her problem. No support from the religious leaders, either. They were all men.

These are just a minuta of what it was and is all about.

The changes in society are slow. The change in values are slow. The feminist movement, along with all civil right's movements, are still necessary. It has taken alot of work and heartache to just get to the point that we, as women and as people, are today. It is a movement of a changing culture.

I glory when I see women excelling NOT being the exception. I can pick a woman physician, dentist or lawyer and have a choice of more than one. They are doing studies about my body that were never done before because women push for it. No one can beat me without a reason and have it be ignored.

Damn right, I am militant. I will always be a militant in my relationships with people when I see them being ignorant of what it is about.

I want choices. I want fairness. Don't ever try to deny me that. I am vigilant.

 

[lavender]

 

[RhumbRunner13]

Lavy!!!

If you were a male this would be known as "STEPPING ON YOUR DICK!!!!"

You quoted me:
"RhumbRunner -

Just for your info, calling us hon saying I still luvs ya, and all that stupid insipid and condescending bullshit on a thread about feminism and women's empowerment is fucking laughable. "

If you will have the courtesy to go back and look, "hon" was used by one of your feminist pals to, I believe Texan. I never called you "Hon", that is saved for my wife, and her only!!! Second, If you are going to quote me do it correctly! I do not speak, type or think in eubonics, so I did NOT say " I still luvs ya"! I come from a place where if some guy makes an ignorant comment, the nearest lady will turn around and TELL him what a stupid shit he is. The reverse is also true. If a woman makes a "dumb ass comment", she will be told exactly that. Consider yourself told!

As far as being nice, and trying to be friendly and fun on this site, FOR THIS MESSAGE,............Go Fuck Yourself, is that better?

Runner

 

[seXieleXie]

Re: Lavy!!!

If you were a male this would be known as "STEPPING ON YOUR DICK!!!!"
<snip>
Second, If you are going to quote me do it correctly! I do not speak, type or think in eubonics, so I did NOT say " I still luvs ya"! I come from a place where if some guy makes an ignorant comment, the nearest lady will turn around and TELL him what a stupid shit he is. The reverse is also true. If a woman makes a "dumb ass comment", she will be told exactly that. Consider yourself told!

As far as being nice, and trying to be friendly and fun on this site, FOR THIS MESSAGE,............Go Fuck Yourself, is that better?

Runner

the difference between "still luv ya" and "i still luvs ya" is not worth such a vhelment reaction. the tone is still patronizing/condecending/whatever. now... being that it is 3 in the morning and i've had a not so pleasant night i'm not going to jump into the discussion again... but can i just say... can't we all just get along?
http://www.myrtlelearns.com/pictures/get%20along.psd.gif

i'm going to bed now. if you can't have a disagreement without having a fight then you shouldn't be debating. if you kids aren't good i'll force you to watch the new brittany spears movie until you've memorized the script (yay, i'm being condicening too...hurrah for hypocracy at 3 am when running on about 5 hours sleep )

 

[TygerEyez]

Rhumb, for the sake of all our sanities, consider St. John's Wort, please? *chuckles* I don't know much about you, but the impression you're putting off is just that... Putting off people. I'm afraid to misspell any of the words you used in a post for fear of being screamed at. Let a debate be with words, not shouts.

For the record, I believe in equality, and I believe that women have rights in the workforce, and everything else. However, there are too many women who keep pushing and pushing. "Power to women" has become "all-powerful women." A well-meant drive for equality has been pushed into an overbearing ideal of "we can do it for ourselves."

I'm proud to be feminine, and I say "good for you" for those who love the life where they do everything for themselves. Me? Personally, I wish guys would hold open a door for me, or pay for my meal sometimes. They're too scared to anymore.

 

[Natalie Nessus]

I love the feminine

 

[ksmybuttons]

Feminism is about equality, not homogeneity. Wanting the same legal and financial opportunities as equally qualified men does not mean wanting to become a man. Fanatics like to twist the definition of feminist into something evil & scary to suit their own purposes, but all feminists really want is for women to have the same economic opportunities as everyone else. Not special treatment, not the "upper hand". And thanks in good part to the feminist movement, chicks in my generation have opportunities that our grandmothers do not. I happen to think that's pretty damn cool.

I don't think I am old enough to be your grandmother, your mother, maybe.

Feminism as a political movement is much more than economics. It is safety, opportunity, and it is choice. It is education. It is a cultural shift.

In order to have more subtle things acknowledged, many women in the movement went for the obiviously concrete and the analogy. "Don't open a door, don't help me on with my coat, don't buy my meal.." They were saying they were no longer an object. They were not a possession to be controlled. Making these shifts in people's inate beliefs and values sometimes takes a hammer.

I think you will find that many of us who are centered in ourselves as women, and feel less discrimination than we once did, like and enjoy chivalry. I always have. I will always be a woman. I still prefer to wear dresses. I love being pampered, just as I love to pamper.

The complacency of many women today is one of the frightening things for me. Any growth or change is like a lightening bolt. It is not a straight line. It has highs and lows. It is the subtlies of the discrimination today that must be watched.

The president has identified that the way to get people off of welfare is to get the women married and he is going to use federal welfare dollars to do it.

Very scary from a feminist view.