Female Version of 'Macho'?

[xssve]

And no, my pickup is merely average sized.

Now that we've exchanged pleasantries and personal information, is there any chance of getting back on topic?

I'm still interested in any word that describes Mae West's unapologetic, uninhibited, bantering sexuality - is she anywhere in the ballpark doc? Bawdy? Might make it easier if we had an example of what you have in mind.

 

[xssve]

Newsflash: calling any self-respecting woman a bimbo isn't funny.

Again, who did I call a bimbo?

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I actually thought of this very example as I was reading this thread and wondered if I would have reacted like this if it had happened that way. No, I wouldn't. Seriously. If you tell me about Indians, and the information is wrong, I'd just correct you based on what I know as an Indian. I just don't see why you're insulted.

And no, I wouldn't expect you to quote your sources unless asked because what you know (or believe you know) is a fact to you.

I'd be happy to hear more about the origins of the word "bimbo." Would be nice if we could discuss words without getting riled up about the connotations.

Doc is going to get this week's award for starting the most non-political threads that get people fighting mad.

I think I'm going to start avoiding your threads, Mr Penis King.

 

[Stella_Omega]

You need look no further than the mirror - or are you categorically incapable of being wrong?

yes, I can be very wrong, which is why I can understand your problem here.

Seriously. I am well aware that I've blown this up out of proportion-- but there was something there to blow up.

Meanwhile, I think both Mae West and Marilyn Monroe are quintessential Femmes

 

[sweetness6280]

I'd be happy to hear more about the origins of the word "bimbo." Would be nice if we could discuss words without getting riled up about the connotations.

Doc is going to get this week's award for starting the most non-political threads that get people fighting mad.

I think I'm going to start avoiding your threads, Mr Penis King.

LOL... That's Mr Wonderful Penis King. I would hate to see Mr. Penis riled... I hear he spits.

 

[xssve]

yes, I can be very wrong, which is why I can understand your problem here.

Seriously. I am well aware that I've blown this up out of proportion-- but there was something there to blow up.

Meanwhile, I think both Mae West and Marilyn Monroe are quintessential Femmes

Whatever floats your boat.

Sure, they're both femme, but they are polar opposites in terms of attitude - i.e., West is not playing the innocent like Marilyn (deceit or no?) but the bawd - there is a world of difference between the two.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

LOL... That's Mr Wonderful Penis King. I would hate to see Mr. Penis riled... I hear he spits.

Pretty soon we'll just be shortening it to "the King"

 

[Huckleman2000]

is this a commonly understood usage? because it's a first for me. Bimbo is as insulting as you can get, even more than slut, as far as I know-- it insults the woman's intelligence as well as her morals.

If she makes you look good, it's only by contrast-- your dog looks smart next to her.

See, I think you're the one reading your own perception into this. Surely, not all women are intelligent? (outside of Lake Wobegone, anyway) What do you call women who appear to get by more on their looks than their brains? Apart from, 'the enemy' (apparently)?

As for "Men Who Try To Explain Things", how's this for a gender-based explanation: When asked what traits they find attractive in men, women most often say "confidence" and "intelligence". These are also traits that lead to advancement in society. I understand it if you say that society isn't gender-fair, but to point at 'dominant male' traits that women are complicit in preserving, and blaming men for them, doesn't strike me as much of a gender-neutral stance. As Dr. M pointed out in another thread, "If you elect doofuses, you get to live in doofusland."

I read the screed you linked to, and I found it shallow and insulting and self-pitying. How dare she assume that her perception is actually how men think in the situations she describes. Particularly, men much older than she is. Is she, or has she ever been, a man?

I've seen "boi-femme" couples out together before I was aware of the term, and my immediate thoughts were that they had appropriated the gender characteristics of gay men. This in contrast with "dyke-femme" couples where they appropriated characteristics of hyper-masculine men. Yes, I see those female roles as appropriated from male roles, but that's probably because I had experience with men in those roles first, and my frame of reference as a man.

I'm sorry if those aren't the correct terms to use, I'm trying to understand something that I have only limited experience with.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Again, who did I call a bimbo?

You called these types of women bimbos, more or less;

Mmmm. Good question!

A non-lethal femme-fatale. What they might make of a pre-baby Angeline Jolie, say, after she went into Saks with $50,000 to blow, but maybe a little cheaper than that.

I think you see them at carnival in Rio.

Oh, well technically, we call that a bimbo.

Now, I can see the joke- - although I don't think Angelina Jolie is stupid in any way. Sure she's made some weird lovelife choices but haven't we all?

So I can apologise to you twice because you are not the only man that's pissing me off, Mab's attitude of "no-woman knows the trouble I've seen" in his other thread isn't doing anything good for me either.

 

[Stella_Omega]

See, I think you're the one reading your own perception into this. Surely, not all women are intelligent? (outside of Lake Wobegone, anyway) What do you call women who appear to get by more on their looks than their brains? Apart from, 'the enemy' (apparently)?

that wasn't Mab's question. he wanted to know what a hyper-feminine woman might be called. He wasn't asking what you'd call a stupid woman.

As for "Men Who Try To Explain Things", how's this for a gender-based explanation: When asked what traits they find attractive in men, women most often say "confidence" and "intelligence". These are also traits that lead to advancement in society. I understand it if you say that society isn't gender-fair, but to point at 'dominant male' traits that women are complicit in preserving, and blaming men for them, doesn't strike me as much of a gender-neutral stance. As Dr. M pointed out in another thread, "If you elect doofuses, you get to live in doofusland."

Congratulations! You've just scored two swigs and a full chug in the "Anti-feminist drinking game"

I read the screed you linked to, and I found it shallow and insulting and self-pitying. How dare she assume that her perception is actually how men think in the situations she describes. Particularly, men much older than she is. Is she, or has she ever been, a man?

And another full shot...

I've seen "boi-femme" couples out together before I was aware of the term, and my immediate thoughts were that they had appropriated the gender characteristics of gay men. This in contrast with "dyke-femme" couples where they appropriated characteristics of hyper-masculine men. Yes, I see those female roles as appropriated from male roles, but that's probably because I had experience with men in those roles first, and my frame of reference as a man.

I'm sorry if those aren't the correct terms to use, I'm trying to understand something that I have only limited experience with.

Now here, I think, you've hit the nail right on the head!

Queer society is evolving in some new ways.

 

[sweetness6280]

Pretty soon we'll just be shortening it to "the King"

mmm... Dr. the King. Works for me.

 

[xssve]

You called these types of women bimbos, more or less;

What women - those who act like bimbos? I wasn't aware this one had made the PC list.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

But this suggests that macha already has a definition and it has nothing to do with exaggerated feminization. It has more to do with political rights and feminism.

That is correct. The word has a definition and a usage. Therefore, whatever it is that you want a word for, this would appear not to be it.

 

[xssve]

Bimbification or no? For all I know she has an advanced degree in particle physics, but this pays more.
http://z.about.com/d/losangeles/1/0/O/3/-/-/UFC76girls2.jpg

 

[Corylea]

Oh, that would have been me for the first twenty years of my sexual life. Except that it was sexual. I played with gay men, not straight. I've never trusted a straight male Dom not to presume on male privilege, although Corylea says she's known a few.

*blink* Huh? What? I said that 99% of straight male doms seemed to be completely full of themselves, to the level of being full of, er, something else. That meant that I'd met a few who acted like humans (yes, of course you're in the 1%, Doc) -- that's not the same as abandoning male privilege.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

*blink* Huh? What? I said that 99% of straight male doms seemed to be completely full of themselves, to the level of being full of, er, something else. That meant that I'd met a few who acted like humans (yes, of course you're in the 1%, Doc) -- that's not the same as abandoning male privilege.

Do us vanilla types score any better?, he said hopefully.

 

[Corylea]

Pretty soon we'll just be shortening it to "the King"

And then we can shorten that to "Elvis."

 

[jomar]

...Doc is going to get this week's award for starting the most non-political threads that get people fighting mad.

I think I'm going to start avoiding your threads, Mr Penis King.

But...the Penis King thread has been a success! It's in the refractory phase for the moment.

 

[Corylea]

And don't forget that "femme" sometimes comes with modifiers -- it sounds like maybe Doc enjoys women who'd count as "high femme."

 

[Stella_Omega]

*blink* Huh? What? I said that 99% of straight male doms seemed to be completely full of themselves, to the level of being full of, er, something else. That meant that I'd met a few who acted like humans (yes, of course you're in the 1%, Doc) -- that's not the same as abandoning male privilege.

dammit, there I am tripping up again!

I was thinking about this on my way home from work. And counting the straight male Doms I can remember meeting who weren't topping from privilege, regardless of whether or not they were full of themselves-- because that in itself is common among most capitol-D Doms, of either sex-- or any orientation.

Meh. It's nearly impossible to not play with privilege if you have it to hand in the tool bag, was my conclusion. *shrug*

Sure, they're both femme, but they are polar opposites in terms of attitude - i.e., West is not playing the innocent like Marilyn (deceit or no?) but the bawd - there is a world of difference between the two.

yeah, so you might use modifiers? A bawdy Femme, a ditzy femme. In the Angelina Jolie example, a femme with money to burn.

(didn't see corylea's post above me!)

 

[xssve]

The gay male equivalent of boi wight seem to be "twink", boi, however, sounds more dignified, and "twink", as I've heard it used is closer to "slut".

Twink or twinkie is a gay slang term describing an attractive young or young-looking gay man (usually in his late teens or early twenties) with a slender build and little or no body hair.[4][5] In some societies, the term chick or chicken is preferred.[6] Twinkle-toes is a related term also used, usually in a derogatory manner, to imply a man is effeminate.[7] The terms can be complimentary or pejorative.[8][9]

Wikipedia: Twink

Also:

In goth (and sometimes punk) subculture boi is used to refer to a young man not afraid to experiment with traditionally "feminine" things such as eyeliner, frills, etc. and as a protest against gender roles

Wikipedia: Boi

The appearance of semi-androgynous adolescence would appear to be the common thread.

Boi (plural: bois) is a term used within LGBT and butch and femme communities to refer to a person's sexual and gender identity.[1][2] In lesbian communities, there is an increasing acceptance of gender expression and intersexuality, as well as allowing people to self-identify with labels such as boi.[3][4][5] The term may denote a number of possibilities that are not mutually exclusive:[6]

* A younger person who looks and acts like a young, heterosexual male, possibly embodying stereotyped attributes towards casual sex and commitment in relationships, in contrast with the stereotype of the U-Haul lesbian. Bois may not identify as butch, regarding butches as playing a more powerful or responsible role – the "man of the house" – while a boi is still in a freer, younger phase.
* A submissive butch in the BDSM community, or a younger butch in the butch-femme community.[7]
* A young transman, or a transman who is in the earlier stages of transitioning.[7]

* A term of endearment for butches by femmes.[7] It may also be used in the gay community to refer to a younger person – bisexual or gay – who may have effeminate characteristics.[7] The term can also be used by anyone who wishes to distinguish from heterosexual or heteronormative identities.[7]

Boi may also refer to a female-born or female-bodied person—sometimes transsexual, transgendered, or intersexed, sometimes not—that generally does not identify as, or only partially identifies as feminine, female, a girl, or a woman.[8] Some "bois" identify as one or more of these, but they almost always identify as lesbians, dykes, or queers. Many are also genderqueer or practice genderfuck. Bois may prefer a range of pronouns, including "he", "she", or gender-neutral pronouns such as "hir", "sie", "zie", and "ey".[9] The term has found increasing usage in the larger LGBT culture.

Wikipedia: Boi

Here's Bimbo, if anyone is still interested, or can't type.

Also see "Genderfuck" which is all about creating this sort of confusion as an end in itself.

 

[Stella_Omega]

bimbo - 4 dictionary results
bim·bo /ˈbɪmboʊ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[bim-boh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -bos, -boes. Slang.
1. a foolish, stupid, or inept person.
2. a man or fellow, often a disreputable or contemptible one.
3. Disparaging and Offensive. an attractive but stupid young woman, esp. one with loose morals.
[Origin: 1915–20, Americanism; perh. < It bimbo baby]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
CITE THIS SOURCE|PRINT
bim·bo (bĭm'bō) Pronunciation Key
n. pl. bim·bos

1. Slang A woman regarded as vacuous or as having an exaggerated interest in her sexual appeal.
2. Slang A vacuous person: "a male bimbo ... who even has to be tutored ... in the clichés that comprise the basic interview" (George F. Will).

The most common thread in that wikipedia entry for boi seems to be its use within the queer community.

 

[xssve]

In this case, my usage is in reference to younger women who are into heterosexual anal sex, i.e., a female homosexual.

I know, I know, but spare me, I'm just relating the colloquial usage of an expression that heretofore had some other meaning, it's not my doing.

You have no idea how complicated it gets in the middle of small town Mormon/Christian activists.

I am forced to remind them occasionally that the Bible does not prohibit heterosexual anal sex, and perhaps inconveniently, it neither prohibits pedophilia or pederasty, if you take the word "Man" literally.

But you'll have to ask a Catholic priest about that.

 

[xssve]

The most common thread in that wikipedia entry for boi seems to be its use within the queer community.

See above.

 

[Stella_Omega]

In this case, my usage is in reference to younger women who are into heterosexual anal sex, i.e., a female homosexual.

I know, I know, but spare me, I'm just relating the colloquial usage of an expression that heretofore had some other meaning, it's not my doing.

You have no idea how complicated it gets in the middle of small town Mormon/Christian activists.

I am forced to remind them occasionally that the Bible does not prohibit heterosexual anal sex, and perhaps inconveniently, it neither prohibits pedophilia or pederasty, if you take the word "Man" literally.

But you'll have to ask a Catholic priest about that.

gah, I tried to live in a small town once, my family lasted there for three years. And that was considered a very liberal small town.


I'm perfectly willing to add your def to the list -- now that the sun is over the yardarm.

And we should also start thinking about hetero relationship dynamics that could be called queer-- there are more than a few.