Feeling "hmmmm"

[Bazzle]

I had two pieces of my work expertly reviewed yesterday.

What they said was bang on. I could not fault @Omenainen or @yowser in what they wrote. Its all true.

But it highlighted the faults in my writing. Which is a strange feeling. You read the darn thing over and over again, trying to listen to it in your head. Then hit submit and think its the most amazing thing you've written. You even get the glorious red H, further blowing your own trumpet. You get that lovely warm feeling.

BUT.

Actually both stories are riddled with mistakes, really needed editing yet again before publishing. Almost the Red H is a lie, or covers over the cracks emotionally. I chose two stories with some of my highest scores.

Which makes me think, should I have actually asked for my lesser scored works to be reviewed, rather than what I thought was rather good?

If awful sentence runs and lack of punctuation can get me a red H. It concerns me about my non red H stories...just how bad are they?

But as Yowser said yesterday...my work lacks romance, sex literally nothing remotely exciting happening. Its all a bit mundane.

The other thing that has slightly disappointed me. That those reviews have not created a conversation. Its been left hanging. Which I feel sad for Omenainen and Yowser they have written it to create a debate and conversation around the stories as well as educate me, and in 24 hours tumbleweed has flowed across that bit of the board.

I was half expecting someone else to tear me a new hole on the awfulness of my stories

Anyway, I will get back to editing the stories... hehehehehe.

B

 

[NotWise]

The readers' score is based on whether or not they enjoyed the story, not on the quality of your editing. Probably the only time the quality of writing play a part is when mistakes are bad enough to interfere with their ability to follow the story.

 

[Bamagan]

It's just an opinion, but to the extent that scores mean anything, they suggest that a story serviced the kinks of the audience (or failed to). I believe there are certain readers out there who are perfectly satisfied if a story serves to jump-start their own dirty fantasies, even if the author goes off in a different direction or rushed it to publication without a careful read-through for mistakes. They (assuming I'm right to think they exist) tend to hand out 5s generously, just as some will hand out 1s because you wrote about [fetish of choice] without glancing at the story.

There are some people who claim to adjust their rating to account for technical quality, and I don't disbelieve them, but I doubt that they are a significant component of the voting public. It's a pretty common lament around these threads that stories rife with errors can still achieve high scores, which I generally read as, 'stories with more errors than mine,' since no one is likely to catch them all no matter how much editing is done. I'm not saying that to suggest it's unimportant to try to improve as a writer, in both technical and compositional senses, but I just don't think the scores are a good barometer to judge one's development.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

While I don't doubt you received some valuable criticism, I would take anything anyone says with a grain of salt. As Keith often points out, nobody here is truly an expert and our reviews are just opinions that might or might not be true.
Of course, the subject of the red H and how related it is to the actual quality of the story has come up quite often but I believe the general consensus is that it's a sign of readers liking your story rather than considering it a well-written one, even if there is some overlap there. So it's all up to you to decide which matters more to you, the opinion of some of your peers or the "liking" of readers, because those scores mean that somebody out there liked your stories

 

[AwkwardlySet]

By the way, that doesn't mean you shouldn't improve your editing process. I can vouch for my own writing that it does matter to readers, even though it's not crucial. Some of my early stories (before I took them down) had high ratings regardless of the shaky grammar.

 

[Bazzle]

By the way, that doesn't mean you shouldn't improve your editing process. I can vouch for my own writing that it does matter to readers, even though it's not crucial. Some of my early stories (before I took them down) had high ratings regardless of the shaky grammar.

I totally agree! It has improved dramatically since I have been on this site. Anonymous spectacularly hung drawn and quartered me at first on my editing. I listened and tried to improve. There is more to do, which is part of the learning.

 

[StillStunned]

I don't know whether you already do this, but as a professional editor the Read Aloud function in Word is probably the best tool I can recommend.

Not only does it help you to catch nearly all your typos, but it will help you spot repetitions and see which sentences are too long or don't flow properly.

The trick is to keep your eyes on the screen while you're doing the Read Aloud. Watch the grey highlight skip from word to word. That helps you to stay focused and not zone out.

 

[Bazzle]

I don't know whether you already do this, but as a professional editor the Read Aloud function in Word is probably the best tool I can recommend.

Not only does it help you to catch nearly all your typos, but it will help you spot repetitions and see which sentences are too long or don't flow properly.

The trick is to keep your eyes on the screen while you're doing the Read Aloud. Watch the grey highlight skip from word to word. That helps you to stay focused and not zone out.

I will try that, thank you

 

[Omenainen]

I had two pieces of my work expertly reviewed yesterday.

What they said was bang on. I could not fault @Omenainen or @yowser in what they wrote. Its all true.

But it highlighted the faults in my writing. Which is a strange feeling. You read the darn thing over and over again, trying to listen to it in your head. Then hit submit and think its the most amazing thing you've written. You even get the glorious red H, further blowing your own trumpet. You get that lovely warm feeling.

BUT.

Actually both stories are riddled with mistakes, really needed editing yet again before publishing. Almost the Red H is a lie, or covers over the cracks emotionally. I chose two stories with some of my highest scores.

Which makes me think, should I have actually asked for my lesser scored works to be reviewed, rather than what I thought was rather good?

If awful sentence runs and lack of punctuation can get me a red H. It concerns me about my non red H stories...just how bad are they?

But as Yowser said yesterday...my work lacks romance, sex literally nothing remotely exciting happening. Its all a bit mundane.

It was a funny coincidence they came out on the same day. I enjoyed reading the other one too. The review, that is. I didn’t read the story.

The important thing is what you think of your own stories. External validation is nice, but the scores or other metrics on the stories vary based on circumstances that have little to do with you or your stories. Getting comments implying someone got what you were after are more valuable and less subject to change. It was interesting to me to hear you explain the smoking fetish. This is how we all learn.

The other thing that has slightly disappointed me. That those reviews have not created a conversation. It’s been left hanging. Which I feel sad for Omenainen and Yowser they have written it to create a debate and conversation around the stories as well as educate me, and in 24 hours tumbleweed has flowed across that bit of the board.

I was half expecting someone else to tear me a new hole on the awfulness of my stories

Anyway, I will get back to editing the stories... hehehehehe.

B

I, for one, am not the least bit surprised that not a single white knight has come forth to defend your right to abuse verb tenses. For the grand majority of the time, nobody around here gives a fuck about what someone else wrote and why. But, by having the reviews in the same place, maybe someone will find it someday later and get something out of it.

While I don't doubt you received some valuable criticism, I would take anything anyone says with a grain of salt. As Keith often points out, nobody here is truly an expert and our reviews are just opinions that might or might not be true.

Yeah, and another thing Keith likes to point out is how he never reads the stories by others around here. So for all his grand education and vast experience, it helps the rest of us jack shit. Anyone who wants professional reviews can look for places giving some. I’m sure there are some available who will review smut. Not for free of course, and supposedly not with any insight to how Lit functions as a site to publish smut. I do feel that there’s a need for a communal feedback and joined learning, and I see reviewing as a part of that.

 

[THBGato]

The other thing that has slightly disappointed me. That those reviews have not created a conversation. Its been left hanging. Which I feel sad for Omenainen and Yowser they have written it to create a debate and conversation around the stories as well as educate me, and in 24 hours tumbleweed has flowed across that bit of the board.

I was half expecting someone else to tear me a new hole on the awfulness of my stories

I saw that. I feel bad now for not also reading and contributing.

I've got a pile of real paid work with a deadline of, oh yeah, tomorrow to do, then more due on Monday, but I'll try to get to it.

 

[Bazzle]

I saw that. I feel bad now for not also reading and contributing.

I've got a pile of real paid work with a deadline of, oh yeah, tomorrow to do, then more due on Monday, but I'll try to get to it.

Real work comes first, my bad grammar and smelling can weight!

 

[intim8]

it highlighted the faults in my writing. Which is a strange feeling. You read the darn thing over and over again, trying to listen to it in your head. Then hit submit and think its the most amazing thing you've written.

Because you have the complete amazing story in your head, and when you read how you translated it to words, you subconsciously fill in all the missing parts and spackle over the cracks.

It's an unavoidable thing without a neutral set of eyes on it.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Yeah, and another thing Keith likes to point out is how he never reads the stories by others around here. So for all his grand education and vast experience, it helps the rest of us jack shit. Anyone who wants professional reviews can look for places giving some. I’m sure there are some available who will review smut. Not for free of course, and supposedly not with any insight to how Lit functions as a site to publish smut. I do feel that there’s a need for a communal feedback and joined learning, and I see reviewing as a part of that.

My post wasn't an attack, I was just pointing out that every review is a peer opinion basically, so it doesn't mean it's automatically true. That being said, I supported every review thread authors created because they are a good thing but still, it stands to reason that one needs to understand the possible limitations of such feedback to be able to process it properly. I mentioned Keith because he is the one who often points out this particular limitation of peer feedback, even if I know he does it for reasons that are probably quite different than mine.

My whole point was that Bazzle should use the feedback to learn from it as it likely contains good suggestions but it probably also contains some of the biases that we all have. It's not always easy to differentiate between those, thus my suggestion to take it all critically, "with a grain of salt."

 

[StillStunned]

I, for one, am not the least bit surprised that not a single white knight has come forth to defend your right to abuse verb tenses. For the grand majority of the time, nobody around here gives a fuck about what someone else wrote and why. But, by having the reviews in the same place, maybe someone will find it someday later and get something out of it.

Is this a reference to me defending the "choppy" style in your 750-word story against AlexBailey's criticism? If so, sorry, that was never the intention. I just disagreed with their comments that the wording should be smoother.

 

[Omenainen]

Is this a reference to me defending the "choppy" style in your 750-word story against AlexBailey's criticism? If so, sorry, that was never the intention. I just disagreed with their comments that the wording should be smoother.

No it isn’t.

 

[Bazzle]

My post wasn't an attack, I was just pointing out that every review is a peer opinion basically, so it doesn't mean it's automatically true. That being said, I supported every review thread authors created because they are a good thing but still, it stands to reason that one needs to understand the possible limitations of such feedback to be able to process it properly. I mentioned Keith because he is the one who often points out this particular limitation of peer feedback, even if I know he does it for reasons that are probably quite different than mine.

My whole point was that Bazzle should use the feedback to learn from it as it likely contains good suggestions but it probably also contains some of the biases that we all have. It's not always easy to differentiate between those, thus my suggestion to take it all critically, "with a grain of salt."

Bazzle is going to learn from it

 

[KeithD]

Do you enjoy your writing experience more or less after subjecting it to close scrutiny?

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Do you enjoy your writing experience more or less after subjecting it to close scrutiny?

I love close scrutiny. I love it when someone picks my work apart, this works, this doesn't, liked this part, hated that part, etc ... even if it's mostly or all negative. I can't relate to your character at all - I need to know that! I want to know what I can't know without you, and that is just how your reading experience went for you.

Does it mean that I will change and adapt according to the feedback? Sometimes yes, usually not, but I have been known to overhaul an entire scene that didn't work as well as I had thought or didn't give as much as I had intended, after beta read feedback. I have never received a bit of criticism that I felt that it would have been better if I hadn't have heard it. Criticism and feedback is an absolute no-lose situation for me.

 

[KeithD]

Yeah, and another thing Keith likes to point out is how he never reads the stories by others around here. So for all his grand education and vast experience, it helps the rest of us jack shit. Anyone who wants professional reviews can look for places giving some. I’m sure there are some available who will review smut. Not for free of course, and supposedly not with any insight to how Lit functions as a site to publish smut. I do feel that there’s a need for a communal feedback and joined learning, and I see reviewing as a part of that.

Whether or not I read the stories here has nothing to do with my or your expertise in telling others how they should write here. I do, as a matter of fact. have a whole hell of a lot more written here than you do. And I think I do give a lot of informed guidance here--more than you do. But I'm not here on a busman's holiday. Regardless of your sniping, I do have the training and expertise to review and guide. I'm vetted on that with the Editor's Board MOD. Are you? And whether or not I write reviews here I'm a lot more careful about giving writers guidance how they should write than you are--based, I think, on a whole lot more education and experience than you have and that you denigrate (possibly because you don't have it).

 

[Bazzle]

Do you enjoy your writing experience more or less after subjecting it to close scrutiny?

It hurt reading how badly i'd written. BUT like I've said previously Anonymous ripped some of my stories apart, almost into shreds. Suggesting that I must have been as drunk as my characters when writing. I didn't cry. I tried to listen.

I did go through most of my back catalogue and removed lots of the sentence runs. BUT I clearly missed some in Watching Her. I don't think that there were many in Phantom Flings.

BUT my waffle is a problem clearly. But then I've got a thing for reading Victorian tour guides for places.

So ultimately I've had is two peeps go through and question what I've written.

I take that as a bonus. My work is niche. By contributing here I'm forcing it into a sphere it probably doesn't belong.

It's all good!

 

[Omenainen]

Whether or not I read the stories here has nothing to do with my or your expertise in telling others how they should write here. I do, as a matter of fact. have a whole hell of a lot more written here than you do. And I think I do give a lot of informed guidance here--more than you do. But I'm not here on a busman's holiday. Regardless of your sniping, I do have the training and expertise to review and guide. I'm vetted on that with the Editor's Board MOD. Are you? And whether or not I write reviews here I'm a lot more careful about giving writers guidance how they should write than you are--based, I think, on a whole lot more education and experience than you have and that you denigrate (possibly because you don't have it).

For all your fussing over qualifications and how this is “not a feedback site but a publishing site,” I’d like to point out that the way you’ve been so adamant that @SimonDoom can do reviews properly, despite him also not having any qualifications and not much to show for his ability so far, just reveals your argument to be “I just don’t like AwkwardMD and Omenainen doing this”. Which is an opinion, and you’re entitled to yours.

I don’t need qualifications to post on this free site and I don’t need qualifications to offer my opinions to others on the feedback forum here. I’m not getting in any virtual pissing contests with you. I’m not denying your experience. Giving advice in the type of “I didn’t read your story, but” has its place, and good for you for doing that here for years and years. I just don’t get why it bothers you so much that sometimes, people want more specifics, and someone else is willing to offer that.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I’m not getting in any virtual pissing contests with you.

Pfft, heh.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

Laugh it up, Omenainen. I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing at you.

 

[Omenainen]

Laugh it up, Omenainen. I'm not laughing with you, I'm laughing at you.

You’re welcome to.

 

[Bazzle]

My pissing story is published tomorrow.