Feedback for Laurel re Loving Wives

[irxgbr]

Laurel posted this reply in the Story Feedback Forum a day or two ago. I feel it should have a bigger response than it has collected already When the boss drops in it seems a good oppotunity to have our say.

Quote:
These are interesting comments, and we are following this discussion closely.

The Loving Wives category has always been a bit of an enigma. Initially, I believe it was suggested as the "Cheating Wives" category. Some other sites even go so far as to have a category called "Slut Wives". After some discussion with various authors, it was decided that it would be born as the "Loving Wives" category - firstly to avoid wholesale degradation of the wives appearing in the category, and secondly to broaden the scope. Generally, the category encompasses any story in which a wife is one of the main characters, and where her wifedom (that sounds like bdsm) is a key element as well.

As Lit continues to grow, it's become apparent that there are several types of wife stories and wife story readers. The dividing factor appears to me to be whether the wife's extra-marital sex is with the husband's consent or against his wishes/without his knowledge. Even more simply, one might look at whether the husband was pleased or humiliated by his wife's actions. There are as many variations and nuances as there are stories in the category, but the main lines seem to be drawn at the husband's feelings/response to the wife's actions. Do most/any of you agree that this distinction is key?

As far as the voting/comments, it is not clear that splitting the category would resolve the negative response some stories generate with some readers. In fact, it's possible that splitting the category might make it easier for certain people to target stories they don't like. That is not an argument against a change - just an observation. As Boxlicker101 said, some readers have a very strong emotional response to certain stories - which can be good or bad.

We are open to the idea of splitting the LW category. The main issues that would need to be addressed are:

1) What would the two new categories be called, and what specifically would make a submission fall into one category, but not the other? To make it worth splitting, we would need to create less confusion for authors and readers with the two new categories than the single existing category already engenders. If we go from one slightly confusing category to two slightly confusing categories, we've actually doubled the confusion.

2) How would we re-categorize all of the existing LW stories? The answer to this question may help point to the solution to the first question. If it is possible to read all of the existing LW stories and clearly see which of the new categories each one belongs in, then that would be a pretty good indicator that the two new categories are well defined. If someone reading the existing stories is not able to determine which new category many of them belong in, then the new categories probably need further refinement. The existing LW stories will be the most important resource when deciding any new wife-related categories.

Another part of the solution to issues of categorization - Loving Wives and otherwise - will be the continuing evolution of the Literotica Story Tags. The increasing integration of that feature into the site will hopefully alleviate some of the ambiguity that the category system introduces. That will be a longer term evolution, though.

This site continues to grow because of threads like this one. Almost every single part of Literotica was developed based on input and feedback from authors and readers. Even though we don't post in every one of these threads, Manu and I are reading away and implementing your suggestions to try to improve Lit. Please feel free to post any specific suggestions you have about how you think LW could best be split up and/or improved.

Thanks again for all of the good discussions, and sorry for the long post.

 

[irxgbr]

My reply:

The split into two, husband likes or dislikes, would I assume cover the vast majority of stories but I feel it would do little to placate the profesional Trolls. They may congregate in the 'dislikes' section but that would make that even worse.
I suggested here some time ago that, perhaps, your vote checking procedure could monitor, and bar, any IP address that only puts up '1' votes each and very time. The negative comments are I suspose down to the author to delete although I do not in principle but if it was accepted that it was a way to get them to lose interest perhaps we all could

 

[thebullet]

I was one who suggested splitting the LW category many moons ago, but now I'm not so sure.

This all started when the public comments section became available, IMHO. Before then one didn't really know how most people felt about LW stories except for the stories that one wrote oneself. The only other guidlines were the scoring system, and low scoring stories were just assumed to be bad stories.

When it comes right down to it, I love the public comments. I find them ridiculous, hilarious, sometimes even inciteful. IF the LW category is split into two, I fear those delicious public comments might be reduced. Except for the real bottom feeders, it is possible that the majority of Lit readers will stick to the category they prefer.

For example, I never go into the BDSM category, or Celebrities, or Fetish, or Transsexual, or Gay Male, or Erotic Horror. Several others I rarely look at. No offense to any readers of those genres. They just don't appeal to me.

So I'm afraid that splitting the LW category will seriously reduce the sniping, the rangling, the arguing, the insults; All the things in the Public Comments section that make life worth living.

Don't do it! Let the games continue.

 

[irxgbr]

Come on guys and girls, how about some ideas

 

[thebullet]

Come on guys and girls, how about some ideas

Well if you really need to categorize, it seems to me the split should be something like:
Cuckold (Likes it)
=and=
Cuckold (Hates it)

That most clearly deliniates the divide, I guess. I wouldn't call them that, but that would be the basic criteria.

 

[R. Richard]

Come on guys and girls, how about some ideas

The Loving Wives readers seem to me to be of three basic types:

Type1: "If you, author, don't subject the wife to a gang bang I will kill you!"

Type2: "If you, author, subject the wife to a gang bang I will kill you!"

Type3: "Die author scum!"

I have a simple, yet elegant solution. I do not submit stories to the Loving Wives category. I tired it during my successful 2004 Survival Contest submissions. Never again!

 

[Guest]

my response

Generally, the category encompasses any story in which a wife is one of the main characters, and where her wifedom (that sounds like bdsm) is a key element as well.

That seems to be where the biggest hurdle is.... a story can qualify under those guidelines HOWEVER, because it doesn't actually go with the loving part of loving wives the authors who submit stories into this category get hosed.

As Lit continues to grow, it's become apparent that there are several types of wife stories and wife story readers. The dividing factor appears to me to be whether the wife's extra-marital sex is with the husband's consent or against his wishes/without his knowledge. Even more simply, one might look at whether the husband was pleased or humiliated by his wife's actions. There are as many variations and nuances as there are stories in the category, but the main lines seem to be drawn at the husband's feelings/response to the wife's actions. Do most/any of you agree that this distinction is key?

1. loving wife having relations with her husband only
2. wife having relations with someone for her husband (IE. he wants a threesome with another woman)
3. wife having relations with someone because of her husband, but not cheating (husband gets into trouble wife uses her body to get out, wife has sex with another man because her husband wants her to or wants her to for pregnancy reasons)
4. wife has relations with someone other then the husband, cheating or revenge sex
5. wife has relations with someone else because she wants to

those seem to be the five major themes of stories that go into the LW category currently. Each grouping as a DISTINCT following, people that like number one are going to pound on anything from two through five. People that like numbers four and five may not be inclined to read those that fall into category one.

As far as the voting/comments, it is not clear that splitting the category would resolve the negative response some stories generate with some readers. In fact, it's possible that splitting the category might make it easier for certain people to target stories they don't like. That is not an argument against a change - just an observation. As Boxlicker101 said, some readers have a very strong emotional response to certain stories - which can be good or bad.

With any change there would be a sharp effect at first, however I believe like anything else it would even out. Those that get constantly upset at people for writing a story that does not fit the classic image of a 'loving wife' would stay in the category that they truly liked while those that enjoy the risque stories that would fall in items two through five of my list above would migrate to the category that fit their fancy.

We are open to the idea of splitting the LW category. The main issues that would need to be addressed are:

1) What would the two new categories be called, and what specifically would make a submission fall into one category, but not the other? To make it worth splitting, we would need to create less confusion for authors and readers with the two new categories than the single existing category already engenders. If we go from one slightly confusing category to two slightly confusing categories, we've actually doubled the confusion.

New Categories:
Loving Wives - Wives having relations only with their Spouse.
Experimenting Wives (or even 'Daring Wives') - Wives having relations with another for or because of their spouse (spouse driven threesomes)
Naughty Wives - cheating wives, revenge taking wives, wives that are just plan naughty

I don't think that they can split the category into just two different ones.... there really needs to be three... because not all of the stories that are in the LW category currently fit in loving or cheating.... some of those stories fall firmly into "experimenting wives" as described above.

2) How would we re-categorize all of the existing LW stories? The answer to this question may help point to the solution to the first question. If it is possible to read all of the existing LW stories and clearly see which of the new categories each one belongs in, then that would be a pretty good indicator that the two new categories are well defined. If someone reading the existing stories is not able to determine which new category many of them belong in, then the new categories probably need further refinement. The existing LW stories will be the most important resource when deciding any new wife-related categories.

The how of fixing this is fairly easy... do the same thing that yall did when you were breaking up the foreign language stories, there was a posting that you had on the main LIT page, on the index page and you posted it on the discussion boards... let the authors send in what their story names are and what category that they would now fit into. It saves you all a lot of foot work and puts the responsiblity onto the author for knowing their work. If the categories that I wrote about above were used then I think it would be fairly simple for the authors and readers to figure out what category a story fits into.

Another part of the solution to issues of categorization - Loving Wives and otherwise - will be the continuing evolution of the Literotica Story Tags. The increasing integration of that feature into the site will hopefully alleviate some of the ambiguity that the category system introduces. That will be a longer term evolution, though.

This site continues to grow because of threads like this one. Almost every single part of Literotica was developed based on input and feedback from authors and readers. Even though we don't post in every one of these threads, Manu and I are reading away and implementing your suggestions to try to improve Lit. Please feel free to post any specific suggestions you have about how you think LW could best be split up and/or improved.

Thanks again for all of the good discussions, and sorry for the long post.

**Note** I made my actual suggestions for the new categories a touch bigger in font so that they could be seen easier.

 

[kendo1]

Please don't split it up!
You would rob us of so many interesting comments, and therefore threads.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Come on guys and girls, how about some ideas

Personally, I don't understand the category at all. I looked around Lit when I first came here. It seemed to me that "Loving Wives" category was specatularly misnamed. And I would never consider the wifely part of any relationship to be the defining element, personally, I would put my stories into erotic coupling or something. BUt what the hell, it's obvious that many people have some sort of sexual fetish for that band of gold!

Aside from my own personal prejudices, I like Elizabetht's idea of three new categories.
But- do these stories have to be defined by the woman's actions?
how about;
Loving Spouses (spouses having loving relations with each other)
Daring Spouses (Spouses exploring extra-curricular happily)
and
Wrecked Marriages (cheating spouses, revenge-taking spouses, and spouses that are just plain naughty)
You could further subdivide that last category into
Asshole Husbands and
Bitch Wives
so each subgroup could find stories to their own taste...

And since more than half of the stories in "non-consent" are about women set upon by their very own husbands, we could fill the "assholes" section almost as rapidly as the "Bitches"!

 

[mack_the_knife]

Aside from my own personal prejudices, I like Elizabetht's idea of three new categories.
But- do these stories have to be defined by the woman's actions?
how about;
Loving Spouses (spouses having loving relations with each other)
Daring Spouses (Spouses exploring extra-curricular happily)
and
Wrecked Marriages (cheating spouses, revenge-taking spouses, and spouses that are just plain naughty)
You could further subdivide that last category into
Asshole Husbands and
Bitch Wives
so each subgroup could find stories to their own taste...

And since more than half of the stories in "non-consent" are about women set upon by their very own husbands, we could fill the "assholes" section almost as rapidly as the "Bitches"!

Sadly the wifey-trolls would probably roam all the categories, prowling for activities they didn't approve of (Taliban-like).

 

[Pure]

?

i like to hear about these 'wifey trolls' and what they say, what scenes they particularly object to.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Sadly the wifey-trolls would probably roam all the categories, prowling for activities they didn't approve of (Taliban-like).

Why post there at all, then?
If it's happy sex, put it in erotic couplings. If it's a threesome, put it in threesomes. and if it's ugly sex put it in non-consent...
Let the trolls have marriage all to themselves.

 

[Guest]

i like to hear about these 'wifey trolls' and what they say, what scenes they particularly object to.

Ask anyone that actually has posted anything to this category.....

we get hammered as soon as there is something that is not strictly husband wife sex only.... anything more then that and we get whalloped....

He wants another woman.... the guy is seen as a leech and doesnt appreciate his wife
He wants her to sleep with another guy (same race)... he is seen as a sick minded pervert
He wants her to sleep with another guy (different race).... its turned into a huge raciest thing
She sleeps with another guy because the husband was cheating.... SHE is seen as the whore
She sleeps with another woman... SHE is still seen as the whore

the list goes on and on....the problem is that as Laurel stated... if the story has a wife in it and she is doing something in the confines of being a wife... even if its having sex with someone else to get revenge on her husband.... the story will go into loving wives... where it gets crucified

 

[LadyCibelle]

Personally, I don't understand the category at all. I looked around Lit when I first came here. It seemed to me that "Loving Wives" category was specatularly misnamed. And I would never consider the wifely part of any relationship to be the defining element, personally, I would put my stories into erotic coupling or something. BUt what the hell, it's obvious that many people have some sort of sexual fetish for that band of gold!

Aside from my own personal prejudices, I like Elizabetht's idea of three new categories.
But- do these stories have to be defined by the woman's actions?
how about;
Loving Spouses (spouses having loving relations with each other)
Daring Spouses (Spouses exploring extra-curricular happily)
and
Wrecked Marriages (cheating spouses, revenge-taking spouses, and spouses that are just plain naughty)
You could further subdivide that last category into
Asshole Husbands and
Bitch Wives
so each subgroup could find stories to their own taste...

And since more than half of the stories in "non-consent" are about women set upon by their very own husbands, we could fill the "assholes" section almost as rapidly as the "Bitches"!

I really, really like your categorization Stella. IMHO YOU have the most fitting.

 

[mack_the_knife]

Why post there at all, then?
If it's happy sex, put it in erotic couplings. If it's a threesome, put it in threesomes. and if it's ugly sex put it in non-consent...
Let the trolls have marriage all to themselves.

In truth, though, your solution does seem the best suggested, split the category or hide the stories in other categories. I prefer the 'split' method.

 

[Stella_Omega]

Ask anyone that actually has posted anything to this category.....

we get hammered as soon as there is something that is not strictly husband wife sex only.... anything more then that and we get whalloped....

He wants another woman.... the guy is seen as a leech and doesnt appreciate his wife
He wants her to sleep with another guy (same race)... he is seen as a sick minded pervert
He wants her to sleep with another guy (different race).... its turned into a huge raciest thing
She sleeps with another guy because the husband was cheating.... SHE is seen as the whore
She sleeps with another woman... SHE is still seen as the whore

the list goes on and on....the problem is that as Laurel stated... if the story has a wife in it and she is doing something in the confines of being a wife... even if its having sex with someone else to get revenge on her husband.... the story will go into loving wives... where it gets crucified

You mean that if my couple happen to be married- my story gets put in that pigstye?
Note to self; No "W" word in my stories!

Sheesh!

 

[Guest]

You mean that if my couple happen to be married- my story gets put in that pigstye?
Note to self; No "W" word in my stories!

Sheesh!

ayep
if the coupling is husband and wife.... it auto goes into Loving Wives

HENCE the reason why authors that actually write to that category want it broken up and have been begging for it to be broken up for ages

 

[Stella_Omega]

ayep
if the coupling is husband and wife.... it auto goes into Loving Wives

HENCE the reason why authors that actually write to that category want it broken up and have been begging for it to be broken up for ages

This is terrible!
My loving biracial couple, Tracy and Stella, should get married- but not now! These horrible lit policies are dooming them to a life of illegitiimacy...
(edited to say- wait a minute... I know I have seen rape stories in non-con that turn out to be the husband after all

 

[Guest]

This is terrible!
My loving biracial couple, Tracy and Stella, should get married- but not now! These horrible lit policies are dooming them to a life of illegitiimacy...
(edited to say- wait a minute... I know I have seen rape stories in non-con that turn out to be the husband after all

ahhhhhh but that is the catch....
as soon as it turns into NONconsent/taboo its moved

but its just a coupling between hubby and wife... tada

 

[Stella_Omega]

ahhhhhh but that is the catch....
as soon as it turns into NONconsent/taboo its moved

but its just a coupling between hubby and wife... tada

so... a woman abusing her husband ISN'T non con?

Actually, I guess it would depend on circumstance.
Anyways, I copy and pasted my post into the thread over in story discussions forum...

 

[mack_the_knife]

Crap, the three main characters in my fantasy novel got married at the end, do they gotta go into loving wives for the sequel?

 

[Boxlicker101]

Bump until I can write my post.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I read this thread a while ago and a related thread as well. I made some comments then and I will expand on them now.

I see nothing wrong with a category for genuine loving husbands and wives or SO's. I would call it "Loving Couples", since I would see no reason for singling out wives for this category. Perhaps it could include committed gay or lesbian couples. I have written only one story that would go into it. It is now in "First Time" since it was about the weding night of two virgins. I probably wouldn't write a lot more stories for this category because I prefer to write about swingers and cheaters and single people having uncommitted fun together. If the category doesn't get enough contributions, it could probably be merged with E/C or have its stories parceled ut to whatever other categories they belonged in.

The rest of the stories in the category, which probably make up a very big majority, might be split into no more than two new categories. One might be "Swinging Spouses" which would include adding another person to the sex lives or a husband and wife. This could be either a threesome or one spouse having sex outside the marriage at the instigation, or at least the acquiescence of the other. The reason for the outside sex partner might be voyeurism, winning a promotion, paying a gambling debt or anything else. I think I have written about four stories that would fit this category and I have at least one more in process. Threesomes as I describe here are currently posted to group sex and some stories now in that category might be transferred to the new one.

ElizabethT described a category named "Naughty Wives" and I like that name. It would be about married women having sex with men outside their marriage, against their husbands' wishes and maybe without his knowledge. Their reasons could be revenge, lack of good sex at home, general horniness or anything else. Any reason would do, just as long as it fit the description. If they were having lesbian sex, it would go in the Lesbian category. I have two stories currently in LW that would go into this category and some in E/C that I would want to transfer into it.

The opposite number of this one, "Naughty Husbands" leaves me a bit cold. I have written some stories that might fit into such a category but they are posted elsewhere and I want to leave them there. My most common protag. is a single man and he never has sex with married women, unless they are very unhappily married. I could write a third person story about a man who is married to a nasty bitch of a wife, or a frigid wife or a wife who is opposed to sex for anything but procreation. He could have mutually enjoyable sex with married women in a similar situation or with single women. I haven't written anything like this, but I would.

 

[Daevious]

How about this?

My two cents, freely given.

The LW seems to be a hodge-podge of separate stories; let's divvy them up where they go:

Threesomes & moresomes to group sex
Dominant Wife/Husband to BDSM or Non-consent as needed
Husbands watching wives with others to exhibition/voyeur
Change LW to Loving Couples and retain the Husband/Wife (and other monogamous couples) in the category
Cheaters and revenge sex to either Erotic Couplings or BDSM (or group sex if a large enough group is involved.

I hate trolls; I like free idea flow. Sorry if the re-alignment changes your favorite troll-hunting ground but I like intelligent conversation.

Cheers!

 

[Stella_Omega]

My two cents, freely given.

The LW seems to be a hodge-podge of separate stories; let's divvy them up where they go:

Threesomes & moresomes to group sex
Dominant Wife/Husband to BDSM or Non-consent as needed
Husbands watching wives with others to exhibition/voyeur
Change LW to Loving Couples and retain the Husband/Wife (and other monogamous couples) in the category
Cheaters and revenge sex to either Erotic Couplings or BDSM (or group sex if a large enough group is involved.

I hate trolls; I like free idea flow. Sorry if the re-alignment changes your favorite troll-hunting ground but I like intelligent conversation.

Cheers!

revenge sex is not BDSM... but other than that, your idea is sound. I suggest a category called "cheaters and revenge"