Fanfiction finally getting public notice!

[Jenny_Jackson]

Christ alight. It's a great and simple way to spot the people whom have never written good fanfiction; they tell you it's 'easy' or a 'cheat.'

Trust me, good fanfiction is much much harder than normal fiction.

You've got to get *everything* right. Not just character details, but getting the way they speak, the way they act, the way they react. Your own characters are in your head and, theoretically speaking, you should know where they're going next just by thinking about it. Fanfiction characters are in someone else's head and it's not acceptable to write what you want them to do. They have to be in character, or by god the fans will let you know all about it. Have you any idea just how hard that is?

You say there is no originality in fanfiction, that the writers don't create. What stories do you think get written, ffs!? Do you think that nothing changes in the stories? Do you think that the characters stay the same, all the way through, that they don't experience anything in the course of the stories? Of course there's plot and character development in fanfiction! The only difference is that you've got to be twice as creative because you're working with the restrictions of staying true to the characters and setting.

You have obviously read appalling fanfiction and built your opinions of the genre around it. Would you be impressed by someone who formed an opinion of your erotica writing from the lousiest piece of two-bit porn found on the web?

My current (non-erotic) fanfiction has character arcs that have spread over more than 25,000 words and counting. I have introduced new characters and settings and woven them into the scenes such that people tell me they can't tell the difference in quality between my characters and the originals. I live for the times when rabid fans tell me that I have voiced a character so perfectly, or captured them absolutely, because I spent days on that line, trying to get it just so.

I've made someone cry with a tragic scene in my fanfiction.

So don't you tell me that I'm employing a dodge or a cop out by choosing to write a story in a particular field, don't tell me that I'm not being creative or that I'm performing low-level plagiarism. I am a fucking good writer, I work damned hard, and I will not have my work demeaned because people form preconceptions about a genre from reading its worst writers.

The Earl

If that's the way you feel, The Earl, then go ahead and write it. I and many others will continue avoiding reading it. But STOP screaming about how good you are and how we have no right to voice our personal opinions because our opinions differ from yours. I've read fanfic and I'm not impressed. My opinion stands. Working on someone elses coat tails is not in the least impressive to me.

I've made people cry too and didn't need 25,000 words or fanfic to do it. So rather an attack you should be trying to convice me that fanfic is literature and not some fabulous jewel just because YOU happen to write it.

 

[AngeloMichael]

I don't like fan fiction in general.

There was a time when I couldn't read Star Trek and Star Wars novels fast enough, and while most were dreck like Rob said, I found a few gems. But I got tired of each book contradicting each other and the producers of the various franchises kept reiterating how they were non-canon. I don't know why, but it just bothered me to be reading something that didn't really happen. I know how silly that sounds, but when I get engrossed in a story the universe becomes real to me, the characters become real, these events really are happening in an alternate reality, then to be told it didn't happen, it jarred with my belief in the characters.

That being said, I don't mind at all fan fiction based on comic book characters. Contradiction is the way life here and you either accept all of it or none of it, and I adore this genre too much not to accept it. It's our new mythology and just like there were different storytellers thousands of years ago telling their versions of the adventures of Zeus, Odin, etc. there are different storytellers telling the new legends. Comic books have always been written by a conglomeration of authors and artists, each with their own take on the characters, so they kind of belong to all of us now, no matter who originally created them. I consider these fanfics just as legitimate as mainstream comic books. The origins of the most popular characters have been done and redone so many times and the amount of special or "non-canon" issues just keep accumulating, that any take on these characters and their universe is possible.

With works like Harry Potter and others that have all been written by a single author, I think of it as a violation of their work and nothing less than theft to write stories about their characters. I know how angry I would feel if someone wrote about characters and a universe I painstakingly established and developed without asking.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

With works like Harry Potter and others that have all been written by a single author, I think of it as a violation of their work and nothing less than theft to write stories about their characters. I know how angry I would feel if someone wrote about characters and a universe I painstakingly established and developed without asking.

if it were me, I would be flattered...

I don't mind fanfic, I think some of it is great fun... and I agree with Earl, it takes a great deal of talent to "get it right." I've read HORRIBLE fanfic, and it's bad mostly because they don't get it right.

I don't understand why people get their panties in such a bunch about it being "theft." Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[Aurora Black]

Fan fiction is where I got my start, so I can't turn up my nose at it. I am grateful for the experience my years of writing it gave me, and it opened the door to writing original stories.

 

[AngeloMichael]

if it were me, I would be flattered...

I don't mind fanfic, I think some of it is great fun... and I agree with Earl, it takes a great deal of talent to "get it right." I've read HORRIBLE fanfic, and it's bad mostly because they don't get it right.

I don't understand why people get their panties in such a bunch about it being "theft." Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

That's like somebody throwing a party at your house and then someone saying "I don't understand why this person is so upset, they should be flattered we thought to use their house!"

It should be up to the author decides whether s/he wants to be flattered or not by someone using/abusing something they took time and effort to create. Some authors have specific plans for their characters and universe and it pissses them off when some idiot writes about what they really know nothing about.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

That's like somebody throwing a party at your house and then someone saying "I don't understand why this person is so upset, they should be flattered we thought to use their house!"

It should be up to the author decides whether s/he wants to be flattered or not by someone using/abusing something they took time and effort to create. Some authors have specific plans for their characters and universe and it pissses them off when some idiot writes about what they really know nothing about.

Like I said, if it were me, I'd be flattered... I've had people on Lit want to use my stories/characters, build off of them... it's not something I get so uptight about. There's nothing "new" under the sun anyway. Everything is derivative of something else. I think the reaction and response to fanfic is sometimes more interesting than most of the fanfic itself, though.

 

[AngeloMichael]

Like I said, if it were me, I'd be flattered... I've had people on Lit want to use my stories/characters, build off of them... it's not something I get so uptight about. There's nothing "new" under the sun anyway. Everything is derivative of something else. I think the reaction and response to fanfic is sometimes more interesting than most of the fanfic itself, though.

In all honestly, I would probably be flattered too. I just would want them to ask first and give me some synopisis of the story they wanted to write.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

In all honestly, I would probably be flattered too. I just would want them to ask first and give me some synopisis of the story they wanted to write.

That's easy to do when we're here on Lit... a hell of a lot harder when an author is barricaded behind a huge publishing company! (or network, or whatever) I think most people who write fanfic would LOVE to consult with the originator of the work... but it isn't gonna happen.

I know one guy who used to write fanfic ended up writing for the show he loved writing fanfic about... but that's sooooo rare. Almost never happens.

I don't think it's quite right to tell people they "can't" write fiction based on someone else's work simply because they haven't gotten "permission" to use the characters, esp if it's unpublished, or just available on the Internet.

Published work, though... that's seems a little different, to me.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

The problem with Fanfic is this. If you take Harry Potter or some other fiction from a current writer and write your own fanfic you are clouding the efforts of that writer. How can you be sure in writing a story of some 5-20,000 words that you aren't upsetting the original author's sequal he/she has spent 1-2 years working on. Furthermore, even if you don't upset a current novel in process, maybe you take his stories in directions the author does not agree with and confuses another issue. This directly addresses the writers pointed out in the article.

On the other hand, if you took a novel by Hemminway or Cooper or Ayre and wrote your fanfic it wouldn't have either the same affect or the same sucess. What I'm saying is that fanfic stories are playing on the sucess of another author's sucess. So, how do you rate that kind of story on its own?

I did, in fact, write one fanfic story taken from the Bogart film The Maltese Falcon. The story did not follow anything in the film beyond the first few introductory paragraphs. The characters, I admit, are the same. The story is far different than the original film. The only character that even acts remotly like the film version is "Wilmer Cook" played by the great character actor, Elisha Cook jr.

The story did quite well. However, Sidney Greenstreet, Elisha Cook jr, Peter Lorrie, Humphry Bogart, Mary Astor, Ward Bond, John Huston and Dashiell Hammett were all long dead when it was written. I had no one or any story to confuse. The story itself is humor and not even remotely like the film.

In many ways, I regret having written it, because I love Hammett and Bogart. I don't think I did the film any service by panning it.

I started to do the same with Cassablanca several years ago. The story still sits someplace with 5 or 6 paragraphs complete. It will not be finished, not because it wouldn't be a good story, but because I have a deep seated feeling that to finish and publish the story is simply wrong.

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

That's the problem.
yep.


I am frequently confused by the directions that Harry Potter fanfic takes!
I mean..."would someone please tell me what's real!?"



oh.





Do you suppose that if it is signed J.K. Rowling, that it might be her work?

 

[AchtungNight]

Jenny- Best of luck getting that story finished someday. If it's meant to come out, then it will. Hopefully.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Jenny- Best of luck getting that story finished someday. If it's meant to come out, then it will. Hopefully.

Thank you. But I will never finish it.

And I forgot the link to the one I did do... http://english.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=104493

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

Ha ha ha.
My buldging sides hurt from laughter.

 

[Oblimo]

I started Sapphyre/Brigid Darkflame (stupid name, non?) as a free-form character 12 years ago and switched her over to VtM when it became available. Unless you wrote both VtM handbooks and the Bastet and changeling books, I think I'm good. ^.^

I didn't freelance any materials for WW 1st editions, so we're good. And I am in no way knocking fan fiction. Hell, when I write supplements and adventures for RPGs, I get paid for fanfic'ing.

 

[Seattle Zack]

"Do you like what you doth see...?" said the voluptuous elf-maiden as she provocatively parted the folds of her robe to reveal the rounded, shadowy glories within. Frito's throat was dry, though his head reeled with desire and ale.

She slipped off the flimsy garment and strode toward the fascinated boggie unashamed of her nakedness. She ran a perfect hand along his hairy toes, and he helplessly watched them curl with the fierce insistent wanting of her.

"Let me make thee more comfortable," she whispered hoarsely, fiddling with the clasps of his jerkin, loosening his sword belt with a laugh. "Touch me, oh touch me," she crooned.

Frito's hand, as though of its own will, reached out and traced the delicate swelling of her elf-breast, while the other slowly crept around her tiny, flawless waist, crushing her to his barrel chest.

"Toes, I love hairy toes," she moaned, forcing him down on the silvered carpet. Her tiny pink toes caressed the luxuriant fur of his instep while Frito's nose sought out the warmth of her precious elf-navel.

"But I'm so small and hairy, and...and you're so beautiful," Frito whimpered, slipping clumsily out of his crossed garters.

The elf-maiden said nothing, but only sighed deep in her throat and held him more firmly to her faunlike body. "There is one thing you must do for me first," she whispered into one tufted ear.

"Anything," sobbed Frito, growing frantic with his need. "Anything!"

She closed her eyes and then opened them to the ceiling. "The Ring," she said. "I must have your Ring."

Frito's whole body tensed. "Oh no," he cried, "not that! Anything but...that."

"I must have it," she said both tenderly and fiercely. "I must have the Ring!"

Frito's eyes blurred with tears and confusion. "I can't," he said. "I musn't!"

But he knew resolve was no longer strong in him. Slowly, the elf-maiden's hand inched toward the chain in his vest pocket, closer and closer it came to the Ring Frito had guarded so faithfully...
------
The one place where fanfic succeeds is satire, and when it's done well, it can be quite brilliant. That was, of course, an excerpt from Bored of the Rings, Harvard Lampoon's excellent 1969 parody of the Tolkein classic.

--Zack

Edited to add: I've never suggested that fanfic writers have no talent, or that their effort isn't genuine. But, at the end of the day, no matter how "challenging" it is to write within someone else's universe, it's still not your own.

 

[Stella_Omega]

If I told you that I hate and detest wine, would you trust my taste in wines? No, I didn't think so!
"Bored of the Rings" is... Maneschewitz. Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill. The kind of fan fiction a fan-fiction-hater would choose as exemplary.

 

[Seattle Zack]

Come now, I wasn't suggesting that Bored of the Rings was fanfic. It was satire ... you remember Jim Zucker's Airplane! from 1980:

Jiveman #1: Sheeeet, man, that honkey mus' be messin' my old lady got to be runnin' col' upsihd down his head!
Subtitle: Golly, that white fellow should stay away from my wife or I will punch him.

Jiveman #2: Hey Holm, I can dig it! You know he ain't gonna lay no mo' big rap upon you man!
Subtitle: Yes, he is wrong for doing that.

Jiveman #1: I say hey sky, s'other say I won say I pray to J I get the same ol' same ol.
Subtitle: I knew a man in a similar predicament, and he ended up being sorry.

Jiveman #2: Knock yourself a pro slick. Gray matter back got perform' us' down I take TCBin, man'. Don't be naive Arthur.
Subtitle: Each of us faces a clear moral choice.

Jiveman #1: You know wha' they say: See a broad to get that bodiac lay'er down an' smack 'em yack 'em.
Subtitle: Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.

Together: Col' got to be! Yo!
Subtitle: How true!

Together: Sheeeeeeeit!
Subtitle: Golly!

 

[Stella_Omega]

Come now, I wasn't suggesting that Bored of the Rings was fanfic. It was satire ...

come now, of course you were;

The one place where fanfic succeeds is satire, and when it's done well, it can be quite brilliant. That was, of course, an excerpt from Bored of the Rings...

That seems pretty definatively a suggestion. What do you think?

(edited to add)

Edited to add: I've never suggested that fanfic writers have no talent, or that their effort isn't genuine. But, at the end of the day, no matter how "challenging" it is to write within someone else's universe, it's still not your own.

Every post you've made in this thread has been to express contempt of the talentless fools who write this form you disapprove of so strongly, and to suggest that their efforts are phony.

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

We're all waffles.

 

[TheEarl]

If that's the way you feel, The Earl, then go ahead and write it. I and many others will continue avoiding reading it. But STOP screaming about how good you are and how we have no right to voice our personal opinions because our opinions differ from yours. I've read fanfic and I'm not impressed. My opinion stands. Working on someone elses coat tails is not in the least impressive to me.

I've made people cry too and didn't need 25,000 words or fanfic to do it. So rather an attack you should be trying to convice me that fanfic is literature and not some fabulous jewel just because YOU happen to write it.

If you think that post was screaming about how good I am, then you completely misread it. It was pointing out that I have put just as much of my heart and soul into my fanfiction as I do all the rest of my writing and that it isn't the "cheap cop-out" that you think it is. Good fanfiction is indepth and more creative than normal fiction, because of all the restrictions you have to work with.

But it's nice to see you have such a high opinion of me.

I've read fanfic and I'm not impressed.

So you'd consider it fair if someone read the worst bit of porn they could find and then trashed the whole genre, telling you that your stories were rubbish. They just focus on the carnal instinct. Where's the creativity in that? If you want to be a proper writer, then you need to learn about plot and characterisation. You need to learn how to craft a proper storyline, rather than just having shallow characters playing out Tab A into Slot B.

Understandably, I was a little annoyed when you said this about my writing. Hence my energetic response.



I'm actually really saddened by your post. You obviously see me as some kind of self-involved braggart, obsessed with ego. My post was actually an attempt to convince you that fanfiction was literature, as I expounded the difficulties of staying in someone else's character and how creativity flows from the limitations that are imposed on you. I was trying to persuade you that fanfiction was not easy and that, to do it well, required more work than writing in your own canon.

However, apparently you interpreted that as me 'screaming about how good I am'. And that says a hell of a lot about how you perceive me.

The Earl

 

[WARNINGWARNING]

The Earl~
Now you're buldging (at the temples).


I think your case has been well stated.

 

[FallingToFly]

The French Market drew him like a magnet. He spent hours wandering through the stalls, amazed by the ever-changing offerings, the lilting patois of the vendors that fell on the ear like audile rain, liquid and refreshing. The abundance of produce stunned him; he took to buying fresh fruit as he browsed, sweet cantaloupes as fragrant as flowers, peaches that dripped juice on his chin and hands, star fruit that tasted like innocence. He found he couldn’t resist restocking some of his supplies here, nothing in England rivaled the lush foliage of these plants, the heady perfume of them lifting like a prayer through the smells of coffee and seafood and the spicy tang of people everywhere, laughing and sweating and moving.

The girl was behind a table of fresh-picked herbs, long capable fingers deftly sorting his selections into bundles and tying them with butcher’s twine before wrapping them up in individual packets. Her bright eyes swept over him like a warm breeze, simmering with interest and attraction, her smile as sharp as glass. That quicksilver glance and her shining waist-length ebony braid sent a spear of lust straight through him. It wasn’t until he was unwrapping his purchases that he found the note, next to the scrawled label for the angelica.

Damn those fanfic writers- such shitty writing, and such hollow attempts at emulating the canon...

*cough*BULLSHIT*cough*

Unless you read the first two papragraphs of the piece this came from, how, exactly, would you know that it's fanfiction? It has it's own setting, it's own characters, and most certainly, the writing style isn't in line with the canon.

Zack, this is no attempt to be nasty, but you have no idea what you're talking about. Jenny, I am perfectly willing to agree to disagree- but I also think you are highly mistaken.

The thing most everyone seems to forget is that the number 1 rule in fanfiction is- we can't profit from it. We play with it, yes, and we do most certainly enjoy writing and reading it, but that's all we get from it. Other than pleasure, the only benefit I have ever gotten from fanfiction is that it is a surefire way to get out of a writer's block. It's entertainment, it hurts no one, and, because by law we can't profit from fanfiction in any way- there's no question of us competing with the canon author.

And, on a side rant- if the author is stupid enough to introduce us to really great new characters, and then drop them cold (LKH's Danse Macabre with the Chicagoan Rex comes to mind. *grumblecussgrowl*) what would you expect a bunch of people with more creativity than sense to do? Write porn?

...
.....

Okay, so besides writing porn...

 

[AchtungNight]

I would like to add something else. It's occasionally hard for some writers to create characters that fit the points they wish to make with a story's themes. If they can find someone else's characters that fit their points through fortunate coincidence, and adapt them with a quality story that reflects well on the original inspiration as well as the fanfic writer's (yes, I'm speaking from personal experience here), it can be a good thing. Whatever it takes to get the story out- if it's meant to come out. I also know from personal experience it can be bad to go too far. Of course, how far too far is is up to the writer and their audience in the end.

 

[AchtungNight]

And, on a side rant- if the author is stupid enough to introduce us to really great new characters, and then drop them cold (LKH's Danse Macabre with the Chicagoan Rex comes to mind. *grumblecussgrowl*) what would you expect a bunch of people with more creativity than sense to do? Write porn?

...
.....

Okay, so besides writing porn...

ROFL!!!!!

I have operated off this same principle with many celebrities who didn't have much erotic fanfic out there before I came along. I achieved a mixture of failure and success, but I and readers got much emotional profit out of the affair, and that was the important thing.

 

[TheEarl]

I would like to add something else. It's occasionally hard for some writers to create characters that fit the points they wish to make with a story's themes. If they can find someone else's characters that fit their points through fortunate coincidence, and adapt them with a quality story that reflects well on the original inspiration as well as the fanfic writer's (yes, I'm speaking from personal experience here), it can be a good thing. Whatever it takes to get the story out- if it's meant to come out. I also know from personal experience it can be bad to go too far. Of course, how far too far is is up to the writer and their audience in the end.

I have to say that I tend to find that the best fanfiction comes from being specifically written to that canon rather than adapted. In my case, it would have to be a hell of a fortunate coincidence as the plot would have to mesh absolutely precisely. I find it hard enough trying to keep in character.

The Earl