Family drama?

[fire_breeze]

If you were looking for family fun, I suggest that you move along.

I am having difficulty with my brother. About 5 years ago, he met a sweet, young girl and they started dating. The problem is that she still hasn't grown up and now my brother, whom I used to be very close to, is acting like her.

My parents, upon meeting her, didn't like her much. Neither did our mutual friends. She's selfish, and quite rude. The world revolves around her. And to be honest, I think everyone was, and still is, shocked that my brother and her are still together; she is not the type of girl that he goes for. Even her friends are shocked. Either there's a great side of her that NO ONE is seeing, or my brother has lost his marbles.

The tension began a few years ago. They started to have problems and he was contemplating breaking up with her, in the most wussiest way possible. It didn't happen, and since then, she has become more and more rude and actually at times, inconsiderate. The problem is so has he. He will call if he needs something and will get quite irritated if we don't jump right away or just can't help. He expects me to take care of my ageing parents and forego my life. He has become quite selfish, to be honest, a complete 180 of the most helpful, giving person I knew.

Granted, we can be a difficult family, with strong opinions. My parents can be at times highbrow. Topics at dinner time are often about intellectual matters and we do tend to lapse into Hungarian and German. Manners are vitally important with my parents. I get it that not everyone was raised in Central European high society, but I know for a fact that politeness and good manners is not dictated by class and transcends any idiotic social boundaries. Is it that difficult to say "please" and "thank you"?

The problem? I refuse to be in the same room with her - she has insulted me for the last time. My Father, who is quite old, is less than impressed with his son's girldfriend's behaviour. Mother is very hurt and is terrified that she is losing her son over this girl. We are all fear that he will chose her over his family. Unfortunately, we aren't a big, boisterous family, something he has envied. She comes from one and they accepted him, which is great. But it's at the loss of us. When they come to visit, they maybe spend a few hours with my parents. I may be lucky to get a text.

Plus, I know for a fact that he is considering proposing to her at the end of this year. He showed me the ring, and I may have been too subtle in suggesting that he waits - after all, he just came back from serving overseas. He is hitting 30, and thinks that he better get married and start a family. The thing is that he is quite conservative and will not divorce, especially if there's children.

My family and I are at a loss. We are deeply deeply hurt by my brother's actions and behaviour. I'm sick of being treated like shit by the both of them and Mother is seriously considering drastic actions. Father has announced that he just doesnt care, and he will tell her his opinion of her (and let me tell you, his words slaughters. She will not be able to stand when he is done). I don't know what to do and the keeping of the peace has, unfortunately, fallen to me. However, I feel like not only have I lost my brother but also a dear friend.

Any thoughts and suggestions?

 

[silverwhisper]

FB, i sympathize. i'm not crazy about the woman my brother is dating. it's nowhere near as bad as what you're describing, but bad manners to the dude's parents in an asian family is pretty fucking bad stuff. and she's asian too: she should know better.

but that's neither here nor there.

you don't appear to have much of a relationship left with your brother based on everything you've written. therefore, it would seem to me--perhaps incorrectly--that there's (for you) nothing left to lose.

i would say that you have a choice to make. me personally, i would prefer to get my feelings out there. the damage to your opinion of both has already been done so i see no reason not to express your misgivings.

how you choose to couch this is ultimately incredibly dependent upon you and very likely upon factors not necessarily present in your post. i'm not a fan of an outright confrontational tone ("what the fuck do you think you're doing you idiot?") but perhaps something more along the lines of "a lot of her actions/statements give off a very selfish, self-centered vibe and i'm really hoping i'm misreading this: help me understand how this isn't true".

but if there's a real threat that someone i really don't like is going to become part of the family, i flat-out refuse to allow that possibility to become reality without registering my misgivings. i would resent my silence, and i will not live with that.

JMHO.

ed

 

[NippleMuncher]

I feel for ya.

Just keep in mind that blood is NOT thicker than water, meaning, if your brother is too stupid or uncaring that he's alienating his own family with his crappy decisions, then he deserves what he gets and can live with the consequences, no family, save for a crappy girlfriend/wife and related inlaws.

Just because he's your brother doesn't mean you have to put up with his shit or that from his S.O. In your house it is YOUR rules, which include courteousness and general manners. If neither of them can muster at least a modicum of decency, then you need to have a frank talk with them and lay it out, shape up or get out!

I've been on both sides of this coin, I have a sister who is worthless that was disowned and I was your brother at one time. When I was confronted by family that my girlfriend and way of life was a problem, I chose my family over the girl and lifestyle, give your brother the same opportunity. Sit him down privately and have a talk with him about how he, his life choices, and girlfriend are affecting the entire family. He needs to make a choice, the family or dysfunction, and it needs to be made perfectly clear that this is a "one or the other" proposition, he can't and won't have both.

It is a tough conversation to have, but it needs to be done. If your dad is as matter of fact as you say, then maybe he needs to be the one to have the conversation with your brother. It may in fact have far more weight and power coming from dad than anyone else in the family.

 

[LadyVer]

This kind of thing is common. It's been my experience that bending myself backwards, and twisting myself inside out, to get along with or appease family members does not work. Some people are just assholes. Do what makes you happy. Everyone else can handle their own crap.

 

[seven_of_nine]

I think you definitely need to sit this guy down and have a serious talk. If he gets shitty with you point out that he's fortunate you didn't let your father voice his opinions. Like others have said, you and your parents have a right to expect courtesy in your own homes. Ask your brother if he really wants to raise kids who will turn out with the same manners as his girlfriend. It may be that his girlfriend sees your family as 'snobs' rather than just polite, so point out that this isn't true. Don't mince your words, make it crystal clear how close your brother is to losing his family. Tell him that he has a choice to make, because the current situation is untenable and unfair. Try to encourage him to open up to you. Ask why he was planning to ditch his girlfriend a while back and why he didn't. Find out what's going on in his head

The other major issue you need to address is that you're caring for your parents single-handedly. He might be in the military and he might work very hard serving his country but that doesn't absolve him of a basic duty of care towards his parents. Point out that it's not exactly like his girlfriend is the kind of person who could or would pitch in and help. Tell him exactly what you're sacrificing so that he can do as he pleases. If he's not around to offer regular care, the least he can do is offer to step in and give you some respite occasionally. Remind him that his rudeness is incredibly ungrateful given the burden you're shouldering alone.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

What I do is remove me from all unnecessary interactions with assholes. I don't try to understand, or do the math, or consult my horoscope. Fuck with me and that's it. And if the situation troubles them, theyre always welcome to discuss it with me, but few do. So I assume theyre okay with the estrangement.

I know this much: As a family dynamics kinda therapist (Jay Haley, Virginia Satir et al) I know that the gang reacts to any and all individual changes, so if you wanna affect the group change something about yourself.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I am having difficulty with my brother. About 5 years ago, he met a sweet, young girl and they started dating. The problem is that she still hasn't grown up and now my brother, whom I used to be very close to, is acting like her.

...

Any thoughts and suggestions?

There's a dynamic I've seen a few times. It goes something like this:

Anne has a close relationship (friends, lovers, family, whatever) with Bob. Bob also has a close relationship with Chris, but Anne and Chris aren't close.

Bob juggles those two relationships, one way or another, and Anne isn't happy with how that works out. She becomes unhappy that Bob's neglecting her. But she's fond of Bob, and disagreeing with friends is hard, so she directs those negative feelings towards Chris. When Bob sends her a card it's because Bob is a sweet guy; when Bob doesn't call for ages, it's because that awful Chris is a bad influence and monopolises him. Meanwhile, Chris is quite likely doing the same thing in the opposite direction.

I've never seen that approach work out well. Even if Chris really is a horrible selfish possessive person, Bob isn't blameless; he's still responsible for his choices, including how much effort he puts into things with Anne.

So I'd urge you not to focus on the dynamic between your brother and his girlfriend. It may not be quite what it looks like from your angle, especially if you're mostly hearing his side of things. But even if it's exactly as it looks, you probably don't have much ability to influence it unless and until they ask you for relationship advice.

Instead, focus on how you relate to each of them individually. If your brother is being a jerk and neglecting his family, then sad to say, that's him doing those things and his responsibility. Maybe he's doing it to appease her, but that's still a choice he has made.

 

[fire_breeze]

Thank you all for your tips and thoughts. It's reassuring that I am not the only one who has a 'wayward' family member. What's particularly difficult is the way my brother is treating my Mother - a big huge no-no among Hungarians. Plus, his actions have been getting worse in the recent months (actually, since he got back; it's probably the fact that he has been separated from the girlfriend for 6 months, but still...)

FB, i sympathize. i'm not crazy about the woman my brother is dating. it's nowhere near as bad as what you're describing, but bad manners to the dude's parents in an asian family is pretty fucking bad stuff. and she's asian too: she should know better.

but that's neither here nor there.

you don't appear to have much of a relationship left with your brother based on everything you've written. therefore, it would seem to me--perhaps incorrectly--that there's (for you) nothing left to lose.

i would say that you have a choice to make. me personally, i would prefer to get my feelings out there. the damage to your opinion of both has already been done so i see no reason not to express your misgivings.

how you choose to couch this is ultimately incredibly dependent upon you and very likely upon factors not necessarily present in your post. i'm not a fan of an outright confrontational tone ("what the fuck do you think you're doing you idiot?") but perhaps something more along the lines of "a lot of her actions/statements give off a very selfish, self-centered vibe and i'm really hoping i'm misreading this: help me understand how this isn't true".

but if there's a real threat that someone i really don't like is going to become part of the family, i flat-out refuse to allow that possibility to become reality without registering my misgivings. i would resent my silence, and i will not live with that.

JMHO.

ed

Thank you Ed . Just like in many Asian cultures, Hungarian culture dictates on politeness. I mean, for fuck's sake, there are 6 different tiers of politeness and extensive familial terms. But as you said, bad manners are universal.

I do like your less-aggressive approach in talking with him, and your encouragement to do so before the proposal happens. I don't think I can keep my mouth shut and I don't want it to destroy whatever relationship I have with my brother.

I feel for ya.

Just keep in mind that blood is NOT thicker than water, meaning, if your brother is too stupid or uncaring that he's alienating his own family with his crappy decisions, then he deserves what he gets and can live with the consequences, no family, save for a crappy girlfriend/wife and related inlaws.

Just because he's your brother doesn't mean you have to put up with his shit or that from his S.O. In your house it is YOUR rules, which include courteousness and general manners. If neither of them can muster at least a modicum of decency, then you need to have a frank talk with them and lay it out, shape up or get out!

I've been on both sides of this coin, I have a sister who is worthless that was disowned and I was your brother at one time. When I was confronted by family that my girlfriend and way of life was a problem, I chose my family over the girl and lifestyle, give your brother the same opportunity. Sit him down privately and have a talk with him about how he, his life choices, and girlfriend are affecting the entire family. He needs to make a choice, the family or dysfunction, and it needs to be made perfectly clear that this is a "one or the other" proposition, he can't and won't have both.

It is a tough conversation to have, but it needs to be done. If your dad is as matter of fact as you say, then maybe he needs to be the one to have the conversation with your brother. It may in fact have far more weight and power coming from dad than anyone else in the family.

Thank you NM, and especially from the 'brother's' point of view. May I ask how long have you been dating your girlfriend when you were approached and how did that happen?

For me though, blood (or more precisely, family - not all family is blood) IS thicker than water. I come from a small family, and I'm fiercely loyal to those I consider in my pride, blood or not. It's the way I'm wired.

This kind of thing is common. It's been my experience that bending myself backwards, and twisting myself inside out, to get along with or appease family members does not work. Some people are just assholes. Do what makes you happy. Everyone else can handle their own crap.

Thank you, LadyV It sort of saddens me that it is common. I guess I was a bit naive. The thing is my brother was most definitely not an asshole, and I suppose the past few months it has exacerbated to the point that it is undeniable that he is portraying assholish behaviour.

What I do is remove me from all unnecessary interactions with assholes. I don't try to understand, or do the math, or consult my horoscope. Fuck with me and that's it. And if the situation troubles them, theyre always welcome to discuss it with me, but few do. So I assume theyre okay with the estrangement.

I know this much: As a family dynamics kinda therapist (Jay Haley, Virginia Satir et al) I know that the gang reacts to any and all individual changes, so if you wanna affect the group change something about yourself.

Thank you for your insight. It's a bit confusing and contradictory but thank you. Estrangement, by the way, is the last final step. It means that the family member is dead. Period. It isn't the change that bothers me but rather the way my brother is treating his own flesh and blood like shit which, I must emphasise, was not like him. At all.

BTW, Haley and Satir are very dated, no? and besides their theories are not applicable.

There's a dynamic I've seen a few times. It goes something like this:

Anne has a close relationship (friends, lovers, family, whatever) with Bob. Bob also has a close relationship with Chris, but Anne and Chris aren't close.

Bob juggles those two relationships, one way or another, and Anne isn't happy with how that works out. She becomes unhappy that Bob's neglecting her. But she's fond of Bob, and disagreeing with friends is hard, so she directs those negative feelings towards Chris. When Bob sends her a card it's because Bob is a sweet guy; when Bob doesn't call for ages, it's because that awful Chris is a bad influence and monopolises him. Meanwhile, Chris is quite likely doing the same thing in the opposite direction.

I've never seen that approach work out well. Even if Chris really is a horrible selfish possessive person, Bob isn't blameless; he's still responsible for his choices, including how much effort he puts into things with Anne.

So I'd urge you not to focus on the dynamic between your brother and his girlfriend. It may not be quite what it looks like from your angle, especially if you're mostly hearing his side of things. But even if it's exactly as it looks, you probably don't have much ability to influence it unless and until they ask you for relationship advice.

Instead, focus on how you relate to each of them individually. If your brother is being a jerk and neglecting his family, then sad to say, that's him doing those things and his responsibility. Maybe he's doing it to appease her, but that's still a choice he has made.

Thank you and especially with the objective way you've put the scenario. It just hurts very much that she's treating me with complete disregard - she's not being outright mean, just... very selfish and almost 'accidentally' rude, if that makes sense? And he's starting to adopts her way of doing things.

I think you definitely need to sit this guy down and have a serious talk. If he gets shitty with you point out that he's fortunate you didn't let your father voice his opinions. Like others have said, you and your parents have a right to expect courtesy in your own homes. Ask your brother if he really wants to raise kids who will turn out with the same manners as his girlfriend. It may be that his girlfriend sees your family as 'snobs' rather than just polite, so point out that this isn't true. Don't mince your words, make it crystal clear how close your brother is to losing his family. Tell him that he has a choice to make, because the current situation is untenable and unfair. Try to encourage him to open up to you. Ask why he was planning to ditch his girlfriend a while back and why he didn't. Find out what's going on in his head

The other major issue you need to address is that you're caring for your parents single-handedly. He might be in the military and he might work very hard serving his country but that doesn't absolve him of a basic duty of care towards his parents. Point out that it's not exactly like his girlfriend is the kind of person who could or would pitch in and help. Tell him exactly what you're sacrificing so that he can do as he pleases. If he's not around to offer regular care, the least he can do is offer to step in and give you some respite occasionally. Remind him that his rudeness is incredibly ungrateful given the burden you're shouldering alone.

Thank you Seven . Your questions to ask, along with Ed and NM's questions, are exactly what I need to approach him with. It's odd - he dumped a girlfriend precisely because she was acting like present girlfriend and he couldn't stand it. I really do think he's feeling his clock ticking. And I'll definitely tell him that he's very lucky that his father is keeping his opinions to himself.

I don't think I was clear - while I do 'take care' of my ageing parents, they do not require care in the traditional sense. They are perfectly independent and extremely active. They just need the occasional physical help around the house, and my brother and I used to check in on them every so often. The reality is, though, that with a father in his 80 and a mother in her 70s, more involved care might become an issue. They know this, and we have discussed it with various scenarios. It's just that my brother has told me that he expects me that to be the one to offer care or to deal with the whole thing, regardless of my life.

 

[COCK_STAR]

You need to mind your own business. He may be your brother but that doesn't mean that you guys are attached to each other for life. Some people are just assholes. You may want to blame his girlfriend, but she doesn't force him to act the way he does.

 

[lovecraft68]

I know this will sound crude, but it entirely true.

She is sucking his cock.

Understand she will win any "decision" that you try to force him to make.

Hopefully he realizes how things really are, but he has to come to those terms.

My sister was once with a total d-bag. Obnoxious, a heavy drinker, thought he was a "real man"

We all tried to tell her, but she was smitten. Time after time we would sit there and chew our tongues while he talked down to her and treated her like crap.

Finally one day, my wife said something to him about showing some respect.

he told her, "Mind your business you nosy cunt."

Well my wife is my business and things got ugly and I sent him to the ER.

My sister did not talk to me for three months. Apparently I was in the wrong.

 

[fire_breeze]

You need to mind your own business. He may be your brother but that doesn't mean that you guys are attached to each other for life. Some people are just assholes. You may want to blame his girlfriend, but she doesn't force him to act the way he does.

Thank you, however if you would have read my initial post, you would actually realise that my problem is the way that my brother is treating my family and myself - plus his friends as well. I may not have been entirely clear but the way we were brought up and the culture itself places high value on respect, politeness and family, whether or not it is blood or not. His behaviour affect ME, because he is treating ME and my (and his) family like shit, therefore it is MY business.

What he and the girl does privately or with HER family is his business and I do not want to know, because frankly I do not give a flying shit. But what he does with ME and MY family is my business.

You may disagree, and please feel free to. However, I ask you kindly to read and actually digest the information. It is my business if it directly relates to me.

I know this will sound crude, but it entirely true.

She is sucking his cock.

Understand she will win any "decision" that you try to force him to make.

Hopefully he realizes how things really are, but he has to come to those terms.

My sister was once with a total d-bag. Obnoxious, a heavy drinker, thought he was a "real man"

We all tried to tell her, but she was smitten. Time after time we would sit there and chew our tongues while he talked down to her and treated her like crap.

Finally one day, my wife said something to him about showing some respect.

he told her, "Mind your business you nosy cunt."

Well my wife is my business and things got ugly and I sent him to the ER.

My sister did not talk to me for three months. Apparently I was in the wrong.

Thank you for your input, LC. I think you've also hit it square on the head - crude or not. I was thinking the same thing

Did you and your sister reconcile, if I may ask?

Yeah, I really do think you may be right. Unfortunately, and this is what kills me (and my parents) is that he is losing his family. I am just at a loss on how to make him understand that while he is free to pursue any interests, there are consequences.

 

[fgarvb1]

Sometimes a good old fashion Ass Whopping is helpful to clear things up.

 

[fire_breeze]

Sometimes a good old fashion Ass Whopping is helpful to clear things up.

Trust me, I've considered it. But taking on 6'2'', 230 lbs of muscle military trained guy may not be the smartest decision I've made. The only thing I got going for me a sharp left hook.


Unless you're volunteering?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I know this will sound crude, but it entirely true.

She is sucking his cock.

Understand she will win any "decision" that you try to force him to make.

Hopefully he realizes how things really are, but he has to come to those terms.

My sister was once with a total d-bag. Obnoxious, a heavy drinker, thought he was a "real man"

We all tried to tell her, but she was smitten. Time after time we would sit there and chew our tongues while he talked down to her and treated her like crap.

Finally one day, my wife said something to him about showing some respect.

he told her, "Mind your business you nosy cunt."

Well my wife is my business and things got ugly and I sent him to the ER.

My sister did not talk to me for three months. Apparently I was in the wrong.

In these relationships I always look for the cock that's getting sucked, cuz staus quo is the word till the cock-sucking stops. Its stunning how quickly couples make their bargains and get to work making everyone miserable. I believe sexual attraction has little to do with coupling, its the cock each wants that seals the deal.

 

[blulilacgrl]

Breeze~

Okay I am going to try to say this diplomatically and I will admit that I am struggling to find the words. But I have been on both sides of this thing.

I have a MIL who I could give my kidney to and she would still hate me. I will even go so far as to say that probably in the beginning I unintentionally did things that offended her. But that was 20 years ago and she still hasn't let it go. The fact is she has a poor opinion of me and if it hasn't changed in 20 years, it ain't gonna.

On the flip side I have a brother who I used to adore but who I haven't actually spoken to in almost 8 months. He has made decisions that affected my family and been completely unrepentant about them. And I detest the way he has been treating not only me but also the rest of our family.

But here it is.... everybody has to own their own shit. It was the realization I had to come to. My MIL hates me, okay. I still order her flowers for Mother's Day and send a card from all of us on her birthday. She likes to believe it is from hubby and so I shrug and let her.

My parents chose to be hurt by my brother. And for a while I thought that maybe I could broker a peace. But the truth is as long as they are willing to accept his mistreatment of them, there is nothing I can do about it. I have decided that he will not mistreat me any longer and I have let my family know that I have no intention of dealing with him. And that is all I can do.

I fear that by you placing yourself between your brother and your parents you are going to get caught in the crossfire. This is a hurt that they choose to accept. And you really can't do anything about it. They have to do it for themselves.

I do feel for you in that, as your parents are aging, you are looking at possibly caring for them on your own. To that I can just say that my sister and I face the same issue and so we are making plans to our own benefit. My brother doesn't want to be a part of the conversation then he isn't. We have talked with my parents and we have worked out what will happen and we have no expectation of my brother's help.

I am hoping that this doesn't come off as harsh, because I honestly and truly to not mean for it to be. This is a reality that I deal with as well and I can understand the confusion and hurt that you are dealing with. But as everyone is saying this is a choice your brother is making and now your parents and you need to decide how much of it you are willing to take. Sadly though everyone has to fight their own battles in their own way.

I hope I haven't misunderstood your predicament or what you were asking. And I wish you all the best. I really hope your brother comes to his senses sooner rather than later.

 

[COCK_STAR]

Thank you, however if you would have read my initial post, you would actually realise that my problem is the way that my brother is treating my family and myself - plus his friends as well. I may not have been entirely clear but the way we were brought up and the culture itself places high value on respect, politeness and family, whether or not it is blood or not. His behaviour affect ME, because he is treating ME and my (and his) family like shit, therefore it is MY business.

What he and the girl does privately or with HER family is his business and I do not want to know, because frankly I do not give a flying shit. But what he does with ME and MY family is my business.

You may disagree, and please feel free to. However, I ask you kindly to read and actually digest the information. It is my business if it directly relates to me.

Wow. You are a very angry person. People generally do not like to hear that they could be the problem. I suggest you see a therapist. Therapy can help you deal with your emotions. Like most women you let your emotions rather than logic dictate your life. You need to quit worrying about shit that you have no control over.

 

[LadyVer]

@Cocklessstar You obviously belong on the General Board where your observations will be welcomed with great joy.

 

[COCK_STAR]

Bring on the hate

 

[LadyVer]

Bring on the hate

Again, you're in the wrong forum The gb sounds like a good fit for you.

 

[fire_breeze]

Wow. You are a very angry person. People generally do not like to hear that they could be the problem. I suggest you see a therapist. Therapy can help you deal with your emotions. Like most women you let your emotions rather than logic dictate your life. You need to quit worrying about shit that you have no control over.

Please show me where I have given any indication that I am an 'angry person'. Please also show me that I do not know how to deal with my emotions and that I let them dictate my life.

Furthermore, please show me where I have never been logical and never been in control in my emotions.

Additionally, please show me conclusive, irrefutable proofs that women are more emotional than men.

Finally, please note that logic and emotions are not diametrical opposed and in fact, the greatest logical thinkers have had the biggest tempers and were hugely emotional such as Aristotle, Lao Tzu, Einstein, Newton, Maimonides, etc (all men, by the way). The binary dichotomy that you propose and lay out to be fact is not only outdate but also patently false.

Show me and logically and categorically prove to me and then perhaps we can actually start debating psychological philosophy, socially assigned gender roles and the definitions of and cultural perceptions of emotive and rational categorisations and why the Grecian model is, in fact, highly inaccurate.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Women are lots more logical than men, mostly cuz women come from the factory pre-wired to be pragmatic. And pragmatism is the soul of logic. Its damned fool men who wanna run off to the Yukon to pan for gold.

 

[lovecraft68]

Bring on the hate

You like that don't you? Little attention whore you are.

Sorry, but you're not even worth indifference.

 

[lovecraft68]

Again, you're in the wrong forum The gb sounds like a good fit for you.

He ended up there by accident when a mod moved a thread. He pulled out pretty quickly when he got his ass handed to him.

 

[lovecraft68]

Yes you may ask, and yes we did.

My sister and I have had a long tough go life. She is actually my foster sister, but seeing we met at 12/10(she is older) and we are now mid forties and very close we are brother/sister. But we both came from broken abusive homes

She was raped when she was 21 and the cops got the guy and the courts as usual with rape seeing as how it is rarely a crime in our disgrace of a legal system let him go. He made the mistake of sticking around the state (RI is a very small state) and running his mouth.

I sent him to the hospital and decades later he still needs a cane to walk and they sent me to jail. (Rape =no crime, beating rapists=crime) My sister came to see me almost every day for close to three years.

Thing is she had, like many victims, known her rapist. I warned her to stay the hell away from him, even as a friend. Anyway she spent all those visits swearing she would never doubt me again.

Until that asshole came around a few years later. My sister was a sexually abused child and up until she met her husband( who is a great guy and damn good to her, because trust me with her baggage she is not always easy to deal with) ten years ago continued to follow that pattern of falling for men who were abusive in some way shape or form.

In your brother's case he is not being abused, but we all know of nice guys who end up with bitches and their lives can be made just as hellish.

The first thing the "bad seed" works on is eliminating family and friends. Anyone who will take him aside and say "Hey, look...."

Its hard because we are all old enough to know this game. We know if we speak out we risk being put on the outs.

It's unfair and frustrating and you hurt for yourself, but more for your brother. But sad fact is like I said it is all on your brother to make his choice.

Oh, and as for the poster who suggested the ass whipping? I think they were referring to you beating his girlfriend, not him.

It's funny when you remarked about him being 6'2" 230.

To quote the cliche size doesn't matter. Back when I got locked up I was 5'8"(well still am) and about 150lbs(still only 170 at 45) and her attacker was a 6'4" linebacker for a local college.

But size doesn't stop a rage addict with a nasty mean streak (and the black belt helped as well)

Besides he's your brother and wouldn't hit you back anyway. So maybe you should smack him silly.

 

[Sweetdaisymae]

Women are lots more logical than men, mostly cuz women come from the factory pre-wired to be pragmatic. And pragmatism is the soul of logic. Its damned fool men who wanna run off to the Yukon to pan for gold.

Love it!!

I hate to say it, but your brother is likely to follow the path he has started on because he has chosen it, and with all seriousness, how many guys are able to backtrack and admit that they are wrong, once they have started on down that path.

The simple fact is; if she is making him happy, he will stay. If at this stage he realises that greater happiness lies elsewhere, he may leave. Will he honour his family? Well he hasn't so far, so the likelyhood is no.

Sorry to be pessimistic, the guy deserves a slap. He is alienating himself from people who love him and hurting them in the process. *big hugs*