Falling in love with your own characters

[TheRedChamber]

Never trust a wombat who shoots up the place and doesn't stick around to pay for his roots. That's one nasty wombat.


I hadn't heard this lesson before. I like it.

There is a dirty joke version.

China lends one of its pandas out to Amsterdam Zoo. On the first night there the panda climbs over the fence and escapes into the red light district. He finds one of the infamous window brothels and goes inside. He tells the prositute inside that he wants to fuck, but to wait a moment. He borrows her phone and orders a 18 inch vegitable pizza. Once it arrives he scoffs the whole thing in about five seconds, then climbs on the escort - three pumps later and he's finished. He rolls off and heads out the door.

"Excuse me," says the woman. "Aren't you forgetting something? You haven't paid me."

"Sorry, sorry. I'm a panda. My English is not so good." says the panda.

"I'm a prostitute," she says. "If you don't know what that is look it up in a dictionary." And she hands him a learners dictionary of English.

So the Panda looks it up in the dictionary and it says: person (usually female) who has sexual intercourse with other people for money.

"Yeah, so?" says the Panda. "I'm a panda. If you don't know what that is look it up". He throws the dictionary at her.

By the time she's found the entry - Panda: a species of black and white bear that eats, shoots and leaves - he's already out the door.

It's a regular on the Year 10 English exams over here.

I don't think this version is...

 

[MetaBob]

He's also a guy who re-issues longer versions of his earlier books, like The Stand, because his publishers know that they can sell it. (I've never read the longer one.) I feel like saying, "Steve, I think we all got the point the first time around."

Why the extended version of Stephen King's The Stand was issued: more than 300 pages were cut by the publisher because they thought the book was too dang long, and that sales would suffer. And yes, I know that the edited version was still very long; my hardback is 823 pages. But my "uncut" hardback is 1152 pages, and restores several scenes that the publisher cut. They aren't the best scenes in the book, but I think every scene in the uncut book was good. It's the best thing he has ever written, I think.

I also have the graphic novel. And watched the original miniseries and part of the remake.

I know something along these lines has been posted before. This is a new thing for me as most of the characters in my early work were based on actual people. Even in some more recent work, the disguise worn by characters is kinda thin (e.g. Dungeon 101, or Off the Shoulder).

But, in my latest - Jacob’s Progress (still to be published) - no character is consciously based on anyone I know. And I kinda fell in love with one of my two FMCs. I found myself actually welling up when writing two sections involving her (and again when editing them).

Is this normal?

Em

As for falling in love with one of my own characters, Callie made a play for my MMC's heart (and mine) in chapter 3 of Cascade Fire. She wrote that chapter, not me, and she got me for a little while, but not like Emma Whitestone of Nelson DeMille's Plum Island did.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Never trust a wombat who shoots up the place and doesn't stick around to pay for his roots. That's one nasty wombat.


I hadn't heard this lesson before. I like it.

It's more subtle than you might be aware - "roots" is an Oz euphemism for "fucks", so the fucking wombat ain't no gentleman.

"Give us a root, willya love?" = the mating call of your Aussie bogan on a Friday night. Decades ago, a purple Valiant would have been the wheels of choice, now I believe it's a black Toyota GTR.

 

[Voboy]

I hadn't heard this lesson before. I like it.

Lynne Truss wrote a book about it, perhaps 20 years ago. It's full of such gems.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Why the extended version of Stephen King's The Stand was issued: more than 300 pages were cut by the publisher because they thought the book was too dang long, and that sales would suffer. And yes, I know that the edited version was still very long; my hardback is 823 pages. But my "uncut" hardback is 1152 pages, and restores several scenes that the publisher cut. They aren't the best scenes in the book, but I think every scene in the uncut book was good. It's the best thing he has ever written, I think.

I also have the graphic novel. And watched the original miniseries and part of the remake.

SPOILER ALERTS! You have been warned. A few points about King in general and The Stand. (I haven't seen any of the filmed versions.)

1. I think Misery was probably his best work and I think the most recently-written thing of his that I've read.

2. 832 pages seems like more than enough. As we've mentioned on here, writers should know how to cut the length of there own works when needed.

3. King can write some good scares and some vivid scenes.

4. He also has a tendency to go for unsubtle shock value. In some of his work, including The Stand, I think he crosses the line into gruesome sadism, quite often in fact.

5. Having Satan as a actual character feeds into the more - call it problematical - aspects of Christian theology. One could argue that it's all "metaphorical" and King himself is likely not religious (he's never mentioned it, as far as I know).

So, although I have read some of "page-turners" (and they are often indeed that) I also have doubts about King and his books. He's a popular writer, but not a great one.

 

[EmilyMiller]

SPOILER ALERTS! You have been warned. A few points about King in general and The Stand. (I haven't seen any of the filmed versions.)

1. I think Misery was probably his best work and I think the most recently-written thing of his that I've read.

2. 832 pages seems like more than enough. As we've mentioned on here, writers should know how to cut the length of there own works when needed.

3. King can write some good scares and some vivid scenes.

4. He also has a tendency to go for unsubtle shock value. In some of his work, including The Stand, I think he crosses the line into gruesome sadism, quite often in fact.

5. Having Satan as a actual character feeds into the more - call it problematical - aspects of Christian theology. One could argue that it's all "metaphorical" and King himself is likely not religious (he's never mentioned it, as far as I know).

So, although I have read some of "page-turners" (and they are often indeed that) I also have doubts about King and his books. He's a popular writer, but not a great one.

I tried The Shining a few times - couldn’t cope with the author insertion… oh wait!

Em

 

[gunhilltrain]

It's more subtle than you might be aware - "roots" is an Oz euphemism for "fucks", so the fucking wombat ain't no gentleman.

"Give us a root, willya love?" = the mating call of your Aussie bogan on a Friday night. Decades ago, a purple Valiant would have been the wheels of choice, now I believe it's a black Toyota GTR.

That mating call is not very subtle. I suppose it works at times? Also, having a purple car is never a good idea. A black GTR is a bit better.

I suppose the women attracted to such brogans are not subtle either. Whatever works I guess, so go for it.

 

[gunhilltrain]

I tried The Shining a few times - couldn’t cope with the author insertion… oh wait!

Em

For a moment I thought you were talking about The Stand. I've read that one too. I left the more difficult details of King's work unsaid. Anybody who has read him would know what I was talking about.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I guess this is relevant. My 50th high school reunion was held last Saturday. I didn't count them, but the list seems to show about 150-200 people out of class of over 800 attending. A mere $125 to go to a rather nice restaurant in Manhattan. But the last person I actually still knew personally (he's going) - I haven't seen him since 1988. So I'm not going. I remember being there, but it's become moot now. It's sort of liberating to let the past go.

You might be interested in examining this location. Looks like the most expensive item on their regular menu is a bottle of Pinot Noir for $1,860. Of course, one could dine there quite well for a lot less than that.

https://robertnyc.com/

Pops' 50th was last week in his hometown, and they are having a second one in OKC this weekend. He didn't go to the one out in the Panhandle and won't be going to the one in OKC. He said he keeps in touch with those that keep in touch with him and doesn't give a tiny rat's ass about the rest of them. He doesn't drink much and doesn't want to reminisce about what's long past. He doesn't want to see ex-girlfriends and doesn't care to be reminded of his being the class joker, comedian, or whatever they want to call it. And doesn't want to be asked about his writing and why he isn't rich and famous like everyone thought he would be. They don't realize he wrote under a pen name, they don't know anything about his achievements. Also, my father is a very private kind of person, and those that attend these things weren't the nice ones. Most of his close friends from school have died. He's only gone to two reunions since he graduated.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Pops' 50th was last week in his hometown, and they are having a second one in OKC this weekend. He didn't go to the one out in the Panhandle and won't be going to the one in OKC. He said he keeps in touch with those that keep in touch with him and doesn't give a tiny rat's ass about the rest of them. He doesn't drink much and doesn't want to reminisce about what's long past. He doesn't want to see ex-girlfriends and doesn't care to be reminded of his being the class joker, comedian, or whatever they want to call it. And doesn't want to be asked about his writing and why he isn't rich and famous like everyone thought he would be. They don't realize he wrote under a pen name, they don't know anything about his achievements. Also, my father is a very private kind of person, and those that attend these things weren't the nice ones. Most of his close friends from school have died. He's only gone to two reunions since he graduated.

I guessed that he must be close to my age, which is why I went off on that reunion tangent. It does illustrate the difference between New York and Oklahoma City and the Panhandle, because after five years hardly anyone remembered who I was or what I did there. (That was fine with me.)

Something else struck me about your father's high school experiences. In my family, no one (including my two sisters, only one of whom survives now) cared a bit about who I dated or didn't date in high school. That may be more of a family than a regional thing; it might be both. I was close to my family members at the time, but I never remember them being interested in that topic.

P.S.: My senior class had about 812 people, which was small by NY standards. Do you know how many there were in his two schools?

 

[Duleigh]

Steven King was a Christian theologian?
And I thought Tolkien spun an amazing tale

 

[gunhilltrain]

Steven King was a Christian theologian?
And I thought Tolkien spun an amazing tale

Tolkien I believe did have religious beliefs - he converted to Catholicism at a young age. Also, he was close friends with C.S. Lewis, who was an Anglican theologian. He was far better educated than King and he had serious combat experience in Word War I. So perhaps it's not fair to make a direct comparison between them, but they were very different as people and as writers.

Yes, King utilized Christian theology in The Stand, but I think in his mind it was only to make a better story. The way he did it, however. was rather heavy-handed and unsubtle.

 

[MillieDynamite]

I guessed that he must be close to my age, which is why I went off on that reunion tangent. It does illustrate the difference between New York and Oklahoma City and the Panhandle, because after five years hardly anyone remembered who I was or what I did there. (That was fine with me.)

Something else struck me about your father's high school experiences. In my family, no one (including my two sisters, only one of whom survives now) cared a bit about who I dated or didn't date in high school. That may be more of a family than a regional thing; it might be both. I was close to my family members at the time, but I never remember them being interested in that topic.

P.S.: My senior class had about 812 people, which was small by NY standards. Do you know how many there were in his two schools?

No, he wasn't in two schools, just one. The foo-foo people don't go back to their hometown, so they don't want the reunions held there. There were 212 in his graduating class. 209 of them graduated, one moved after the first semester, and two either dropped out or were expelled. Our family is close; his family was very close, though he only sees his sister a few times a year now. His folks died in 2000 and 2007. I only met my adoptive grandmother once and never saw my PaPa. Even so, I feel I know both of his parents very well.

 

[Rob_Royale]

SPOILER ALERTS! You have been warned. A few points about King in general and The Stand. (I haven't seen any of the filmed versions.)

1. I think Misery was probably his best work and I think the most recently-written thing of his that I've read.

5. Having Satan as a actual character feeds into the more - call it problematical - aspects of Christian theology. One could argue that it's all "metaphorical" and King himself is likely not religious (he's never mentioned it, as far as I know).

So, although I have read some of "page-turners" (and they are often indeed that) I also have doubts about King and his books. He's a popular writer, but not a great one.

Misery was published 36 years ago. So if it's the most recent thing of his you've read, it's fair to say, you haven't read Stephen King.

Satan was NOT the villain of the Stand. Randal Flagg is a recurring villain that is described as a sorcerer in most stories and appears as an agent of the Crimson King, the entity that is trying to destroy everything throughout the Dark Tower series.

 

[MetaBob]

I guessed that he must be close to my age, which is why I went off on that reunion tangent. It does illustrate the difference between New York and Oklahoma City and the Panhandle, because after five years hardly anyone remembered who I was or what I did there. (That was fine with me.)

Something else struck me about your father's high school experiences. In my family, no one (including my two sisters, only one of whom survives now) cared a bit about who I dated or didn't date in high school. That may be more of a family than a regional thing; it might be both. I was close to my family members at the time, but I never remember them being interested in that topic.

P.S.: My senior class had about 812 people, which was small by NY standards. Do you know how many there were in his two schools?

Two years ago my family gathered in a tiny town in the agricultural state where my mother was born and raised. As part of lead-up, my father drove her father's (lets call him Mel) pickup truck halfway across the country, on its 2800-mile way to its new home with my sister on the other coast. Mel passed away 35 years earlier. His former truck, which had been repainted in a different color, got parked on that tiny town's main drag as we gathered for a reception. A few minutes later an older guy came out of the building where he worked nearby and asked if that was Mel's truck.

Memories last a long time in some places.

That truck inspired one in my The Dog Whisperer (see my sig, below).

 

[djrip]

Misery was published 36 years ago. So if it's the most recent thing of his you've read, it's fair to say, you haven't read Stephen King.

Satan was NOT the villain of the Stand. Randal Flagg is a recurring villain that is described as a sorcerer in most stories and appears as an agent of the Crimson King, the entity that is trying to destroy everything throughout the Dark Tower series.

But, I mean. Basically Satan.

 

[ElectricBlue]

That mating call is not very subtle. I suppose it works at times? Also, having a purple car is never a good idea. A black GTR is a bit better.

I suppose the women attracted to such brogans are not subtle either. Whatever works I guess, so go for it.

The "subtlety" I referred to was the extra meaning in the Australian version, which the panda version misses completely: the double meaning of roots, and the difference punctuation makes to the sentence with that word in it.

You missed the cultural reference - the purple Valiants, mate, were the fucking best. In some cities.

And of course the mating call is not subtle, but I'm not a bogan, so no, I won't go for it .

 

[gunhilltrain]

Misery was published 36 years ago. So if it's the most recent thing of his you've read, it's fair to say, you haven't read Stephen King.

Satan was NOT the villain of the Stand. Randal Flagg is a recurring villain that is described as a sorcerer in most stories and appears as an agent of the Crimson King, the entity that is trying to destroy everything throughout the Dark Tower series.

I haven't read enough of Tolstoy or Dostoevsky either, but in those cases, it might be worth doing some catching up. Stephen King; not so much.

SPOILERS!!! I don't remember exactly how Randal Flagg is presented or what people say about him. Maybe Satan or Lucifer is not specified. At the end, Flagg, as a physical being, is shown as being a mere shell covering a demon of some sort. I don't remember him as a sorcerer, per se, although he has supernatural powers. You mean his appearance is reconstituted in the later books? Also, I assume the Crimson King is King's sly reference to the King Crimson rock band.

 

[gunhilltrain]

Two years ago my family gathered in a tiny town in the agricultural state where my mother was born and raised. As part of lead-up, my father drove her father's (lets call him Mel) pickup truck halfway across the country, on its 2800-mile way to its new home with my sister on the other coast. Mel passed away 35 years earlier. His former truck, which had been repainted in a different color, got parked on that tiny town's main drag as we gathered for a reception. A few minutes later an older guy came out of the building where he worked nearby and asked if that was Mel's truck.

Memories last a long time in some places.

That truck inspired one in my The Dog Whisperer (see my sig, below).

What these posts show me is how deeply the density and sheer size of the populations around us affect us more than we know or care to admit. Likely I would be quite different had I grown up such a place. Where I am, memories can be erased overnight.

 

[gunhilltrain]

No, he wasn't in two schools, just one. The foo-foo people don't go back to their hometown, so they don't want the reunions held there. There were 212 in his graduating class. 209 of them graduated, one moved after the first semester, and two either dropped out or were expelled. Our family is close; his family was very close, though he only sees his sister a few times a year now. His folks died in 2000 and 2007. I only met my adoptive grandmother once and never saw my PaPa. Even so, I feel I know both of his parents very well.

Sorry, you mean his school was in the Panhandle then. "Foo-foo people;" I don't think I've heard that expression before!

Two hundred people is just small enough that it is possible to know almost everyone there. The way I remember it, in junior high (middle school to most of you) the same thirty kids or so would move from room to room for each class. In high school, each class was constituted of different people (with some overlaps), so it was less closely knit.

 

[Rob_Royale]

SPOILERS!!! I don't remember exactly how Randal Flagg is presented or what people say about him. Maybe Satan or Lucifer is not specified. At the end, Flagg, as a physical being, is shown as being a mere shell covering a demon of some sort. I don't remember him as a sorcerer, per se, although he has supernatural powers. You mean his appearance is reconstituted in the later books? Also, I assume the Crimson King is King's sly reference to the King Crimson rock band.

More SPOILERS. Randall Flagg appears throughout the Dark Tower series in a couple of guises, most notably as the Man in Black (not Johnny Cash). He is also featured in The Eyes of the Dragon as well as a few "suspected appearances in other works.

 

[NorthernCardinal]

Why the extended version of Stephen King's The Stand was issued: more than 300 pages were cut by the publisher because they thought the book was too dang long, and that sales would suffer. And yes, I know that the edited version was still very long; my hardback is 823 pages. But my "uncut" hardback is 1152 pages, and restores several scenes that the publisher cut. They aren't the best scenes in the book, but I think every scene in the uncut book was good. It's the best thing he has ever written, I think.

I also have the graphic novel. And watched the original miniseries and part of the remake.


As for falling in love with one of my own characters, Callie made a play for my MMC's heart (and mine) in chapter 3 of Cascade Fire. She wrote that chapter, not me, and she got me for a little while, but not like Emma Whitestone of Nelson DeMille's Plum Island did.

It's a toss up between The Stand and The Gunslinger / Dark Tower books for me

 

[MillieDynamite]

Sorry, you mean his school was in the Panhandle then. "Foo-foo people;" I don't think I've heard that expression before!

Two hundred people is just small enough that it is possible to know almost everyone there. The way I remember it, in junior high (middle school to most of you) the same thirty kids or so would move from room to room for each class. In high school, each class was constituted of different people (with some overlaps), so it was less closely knit.

The snobby elites are what I call them, he calls them foo-foo's. You see, they foo-foo anything that isn't what they consider high class.

 

[Laodice]

Of course I have fallen in love with my literary characters. How could I not?

My buff, handsome young men, and fine looking, bright young ladies don't see me as old. Not knowing any other authors first hand, they see me as brilliant, creative, and desirable. They are always willing to fulfill my most twisted sexual fantasies without hesitation or question. The chefs and bartenders from my private club series keep me well fed, and well lubricated.

The concierge, housekeepers, maids, and other staff from my hotel series keep my fabulous home – that the architect from my Ayn Rand FanFiction designed, and all those burly handsome contractors built – clean and extremely well stocked.

My characters from my true crime novellas provide me with an endless and untraceable revenue stream. Far beyond what I get from Smashwords and Lot’s Cave. And the gangsters, crooked politicians, self-serving judges, and morally bankrupt cops from my life in the big city series make sure that the "wise guys" never see a day “inside.”

Kill off my darlings? Au contraire Mr. King, it is your darlings who will be “lliterarily (S not IC) unable to appear” in your next novel if they decide to venture out into these parts.

 

[Duleigh]

Tolkien I believe did have religious beliefs - he converted to Catholicism at a young age. Also, he was close friends with C.S. Lewis, who was an Anglican theologian. He was far better educated than King and he had serious combat experience in Word War I. So perhaps it's not fair to make a direct comparison between them, but they were very different as people and as writers.

Yes, King utilized Christian theology in The Stand, but I think in his mind it was only to make a better story. The way he did it, however. was rather heavy-handed and unsubtle.

I've read all three, Tolkien, Christian theology, and The Stand, and Kings version was actually antithetical to actual theology, it was pretty close to Satan idolitry.