Fairy Tales = Subs = Abuse

[snowy ciara]

Not to be nit-picky, but being nit-picky . . .

some brunettes have very pale skin. It happens.

Yes I know; I have three of them in my immediate family. I didn't say that it didn't happen; I said that the brunette barbies always seemed fake looking to me. Not because fair skinned brunettes do not exist, because realistic portrayal of such appears to be a failing of theirs. Mattel, that is.

Can you find that original tale, i'd be curious to see it...

the translated grimm fairy tale is located here under "little briar-rose" number 50

I'll look for it after the semester ends. Sorry, but I'm a bit pressed for time right now. Hence all the drive-by postings here. If you want to start looking for it yourself, I read of it in a monograph published by a Doctoral student of my grandpa's in Scotland when I was there a few summers ago. He wouldn't let me read the translated tale itself; (I was only 15 and he thought I'd find it disturbing) just a stripped down synopsis of it. The monograph in question became the basis for the student's doctoral dissertation. It would have been completed about 4 years ago. I'm sure the monograph is still around somewhere as it was published by the University press there, but it may be hard to find.

 

[graceanne]

I like!

Thank you. I meant to do a series on the fairy tales, but never got around to doing others.

 

[TaintedB]

Thank you. I meant to do a series on the fairy tales, but never got around to doing others.

One question that's going to nag at me probably until you answer it: how did the servants know what Cindy had done? Was there some dribbling on her chin, or did they just know the Prince's ways?

 

[arctic-stranger]

One question that's going to nag at me probably until you answer it: how did the servants know what Cindy had done? Was there some dribbling on her chin, or did they just know the Prince's ways?

I am sure the women all just recognised the familiar look on her face...

 

[TaintedB]

I am sure the women all just recognised the familiar look on her face...

The servants were all women? I could have swore I saw some butlers in waistcoats in my mind's eye. Where is Grace when you really need her. :/ She needs to clear this matter up.

 

[arctic-stranger]

Originally Posted by arctic-stranger
I am sure the women all just recognised the familiar look on her face...

The servants were all women? I could have swore I saw some butlers in waistcoats in my mind's eye. Where is Grace when you really need her. :/ She needs to clear this matter up.

Well, maybe they weren't all women, but recognised the look anyway.

 

[snowy ciara]

The servants were all women? I could have swore I saw some butlers in waistcoats in my mind's eye. Where is Grace when you really need her. :/ She needs to clear this matter up.

Maybe Prince Phil liked the boys, too?

 

[TaintedB]

Whatever the answer, I bet Grace will get a giggle out of all of us speculating about the ending details of of her story.

 

[arctic-stranger]

Maybe Prince Phil liked the boys, too?

Or made the boys like him....

 

[graceanne]

Ok, this was just a . . . intro to a longer story I role played with a friend. I don't post role play stories, cause I didn't write them myself. But out of curiousity sake, the king is as bad or worse than the prince. He drugs cindy, fucks her, then blackmails her. The thing that Cindy doesn't know is that the prince knows and doesn't care.

Also, the way that the servants knew what had been going on was Cindy's hair was a mess. Remember, she'd just gotten married, and her hair was up and fancy. Then Phil used her hair to keep her down. Also, she's feeling paranoid. Remember what it's like the first time you had sex, (or whatever) and you knew that everyone could tell?

 

[snowy ciara]

Right, she probably had that wedding cake sorta hair and well, it wasn't so pretty when she got there.

 

[graceanne]

Right, she probably had that wedding cake sorta hair and well, it wasn't so pretty when she got there.

Exactly.

 

[Marquis]

Or made the boys like him....

You really are a preacher.

 

[jacuzzigal]

I guess I don't get it

Watch out mothers and princess subs, you could be setting your progeny up for abuse and not even knowing it.

The smartest article ever

I heard about this study on the radio this morning and it's been pissing me off ever since. I mean, the majority of people have heard or read fairytales growing up so I somehow doubt that's the CAUSE of abuse as much as SO many other factors like self-esteem, real-life role models, people with control/abandonment issues, etc. Seems like they spent a lot of money on a study to "prove" something that in the end is not very helpful. I'd have rather they spent that money on something productive or beneficial...

 

[graceanne]

I heard about this study on the radio this morning and it's been pissing me off ever since. I mean, the majority of people have heard or read fairytales growing up so I somehow doubt that's the CAUSE of abuse as much as SO many other factors like self-esteem, real-life role models, people with control/abandonment issues, etc. Seems like they spent a lot of money on a study to "prove" something that in the end is not very helpful. I'd have rather they spent that money on something productive or beneficial...

Actually I think that people in dis-functional homes are maybe more attracted to the whole fairy tale thing. My mom wasn't in the slightest bit submissive, but she fell for it. Waiting for her prince charming to come sweep her away, and then everything would be perfect. *gag*

 

[jacuzzigal]

Actually I think that people in dis-functional homes are maybe more attracted to the whole fairy tale thing. My mom wasn't in the slightest bit submissive, but she fell for it. Waiting for her prince charming to come sweep her away, and then everything would be perfect. *gag*

Good point, Graceanne. I'm not convinced that fairy tales, however attractive, cause abuse but I can see why they might be an attractive fantasy in general... well, some of them. Some of them are just gruesome. The majority of fairy tales took shape to teach children lessons about good and bad in exagerrated fantasy ways but a lot of them are really out there.

 

[graceanne]

Good point, Graceanne. I'm not convinced that fairy tales, however attractive, cause abuse but I can see why they might be an attractive fantasy in general... well, some of them. Some of them are just gruesome. The majority of fairy tales took shape to teach children lessons about good and bad in exagerrated fantasy ways but a lot of them are really out there.

I don't think they cause it, I just think they can make it worse if all the other aspects are there. Frankly, a very high majority of women who end up in abusive relationship were abused as children. I think it's more likely that that causes women to go into abusive situations then fairy tales.

I also think that the kind of child who's looking to be 'rescued', needs something to be rescued FROM. So if they're childhood is all hunky-dory, and everythings grand, then they're less likely to be looking for Prince Charming.

 

[jacuzzigal]

I don't think they cause it, I just think they can make it worse if all the other aspects are there. Frankly, a very high majority of women who end up in abusive relationship were abused as children. I think it's more likely that that causes women to go into abusive situations then fairy tales.

I also think that the kind of child who's looking to be 'rescued', needs something to be rescued FROM. So if they're childhood is all hunky-dory, and everythings grand, then they're less likely to be looking for Prince Charming.

yes, exactly my point. Which is why I think the "study" may mislead people into thinking all fairy tales are evil and cause abuse. *sigh*

 

[arctic-stranger]

Good point, Graceanne. I'm not convinced that fairy tales, however attractive, cause abuse but I can see why they might be an attractive fantasy in general... well, some of them. Some of them are just gruesome. The majority of fairy tales took shape to teach children lessons about good and bad in exagerrated fantasy ways but a lot of them are really out there.

To a certain extent we all look for stories or songs that can help us understand our lives. Sometimes we make bad choices about what those sources are ("Someday my prince will come.") and sometimes not ("There was a father who had two sons..." "Two households, both alike in dignity," [take that, o ye revilers!]).

We cannot blame those stories for the shitty condition of our lives. We make those choices, and we choose them based on other conditions of our lives, like a background of abuse or alcoholism, or abuse, or oppressive religion..)

but we dont avoid having stories form us.

 

[graceanne]

All that said, fairy tales are still NASTY. I mean we talk about violence and smut on tv then let kids watch hansel and gretel (sp?).

 

[arctic-stranger]

All that said, fairy tales are still NASTY. I mean we talk about violence and smut on tv then let kids watch hansel and gretel (sp?).

I have had parents tell me that they would not let their kids read the bible...not after i did a few bible studies with them. The first thing i tell them is that they are NOT to read the song of songs...they are not mature enough. and of course they all read it. then i tell them NOT to figure out why absalom revolted against his father David, and by then i have them hooked.

Violent? Very. Sex? The last thing said about Moses was that he could still make it, sexually. By all means, keep it away from your kids...

 

[graceanne]

I have had parents tell me that they would not let their kids read the bible...not after i did a few bible studies with them. The first thing i tell them is that they are NOT to read the song of songs...they are not mature enough. and of course they all read it. then i tell them NOT to figure out why absalom revolted against his father David, and by then i have them hooked.

Violent? Very. Sex? The last thing said about Moses was that he could still make it, sexually. By all means, keep it away from your kids...

And that's why they make childrens bibles.

 

[arctic-stranger]

And that's why they make childrens bibles.

yes, and they are so pc, i never use them. No wonder our kids are really screwed up about religion.

 

[TaintedB]

Ok, this was just a . . . intro to a longer story I role played with a friend. I don't post role play stories, cause I didn't write them myself. But out of curiousity sake, the king is as bad or worse than the prince. He drugs cindy, fucks her, then blackmails her. The thing that Cindy doesn't know is that the prince knows and doesn't care.

Also, the way that the servants knew what had been going on was Cindy's hair was a mess. Remember, she'd just gotten married, and her hair was up and fancy. Then Phil used her hair to keep her down. Also, she's feeling paranoid. Remember what it's like the first time you had sex, (or whatever) and you knew that everyone could tell?

Thanks for clearing that up. The rest of that story sounds pretty hot! Wish you had posted it. I was kind of wondering why it ended after just one rough blow job.

FWIW, I've never felt that anybody except the person I was with could tell I'd just had sex. Not even after my atypical first time. :/ I'm self-conscious as hell, so it's surprising that this hadn't occured to me. But thanks A LOT Grace, while I'm not the most active fuckbunny on the planet the next time I do it, I'll be wondering later if other people can guess. Oh joy. :/ :/ :/

 

[TaintedB]

Actually I think that people in dis-functional homes are maybe more attracted to the whole fairy tale thing. My mom wasn't in the slightest bit submissive, but she fell for it. Waiting for her prince charming to come sweep her away, and then everything would be perfect. *gag*

Is Cinderella a submissive? I never got that feel off her one way or another. I just thought she did what she needed to survive a a very rough situation. Also, I still think that popular music of the "love will find a way" variety incorporate the Cinderella complex (or other complexes) into the female brain much more insidiously and thoroughly than fairytales do. It's interesting to look at what pop music is doing these days: I think it is influencing a lot of sexually straight women to attempt to be submissive sluts, as the "Cinderella" message in the songs these days is that's how you get the man, lol. But a lot of the songs are so very cynical that this influence gets counteracted some, I think.

Another very powerful source of the Cinderella myth are fashion and even gossip magazines. Doll yourself up with all these expensive products and clothes we're trying to sell you (and which change each year so that the companies selling these useless goods can keep duping you into buying more), sit passively someplace in public, and the man of your dreams will be so smitten by your appearance when he walks by that he'll sweep you off your feet and marry you, nevermind WTF your personality might be like. That's the message those rags convey, at least to me.

How do you know that your mom didn't get that attitude from music or magazines or even from all the really stupid romantic movies and TV shows there are out there that depict similar themes? I have a lot of sisters. One of them is super emotional and when growing up as kids, she adored watching extremely melodramatic old movies (from the 50s--there were a lot of that type made then) and soap operas. You know, the ones that depict this really sick--well, to me--level of emotional gamesmanship? She also believed in the Cinderella idea as far as I could determine, and seemed to get it from the films she saw, but the stuff they do in those movies is often much more warped than the orginal fairy tale. Like for instance, on-again, off-again relationships that go through their insane rollercoaster rides due to extremely stupid misunderstandings that either person could have put an end to if they had just bothered to talk honestly to each other rather than having these extreme and totally false fantasies about the the other person.

Anyway, the point of bringing up that sister was that she was always this way, and sought out those movies and TV shows because they appealed to her basic personality so strongly. That's the trouble with having lots of siblings very close in age: the nature-nurtue issue gets very confusing. Four girls all born within one year of each other, all heard the same fairy tales as kids, and each of us not only grew into adults with extremely different personalities and tendencies but seem to have been born with them. It is confusing.