Explain to the non-American, please

[Svenskaflicka]

I'm watching Jay Leno, and Arnie's yapping on and on about "propostions 57 and 58". WTF is he on about?

 

[Guest]

It's code for Really Expensive Call Girls.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

In order to make it legal for Arnie to grope interns?

He learned a lesson from Clinton..?

 

[Guest]

Boring truth: they were propositions re. the CA state budget and were accepted in our recent election. P.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

No wonder. He did everything but hypnotise the audience.

 

[SnoopDog]

Am I the only one in this world that actually likes Arnie, not only as an actor but as a person. Ok, since I live in Europe I wouldn't have a clue about how he does his job as gov. but I guess there could be worse guys for the job.
Snoopy, don't terminate me

 

[Guest]

Snoop, AS is not an actor. He is merely well directed in movies made for his persona. He is the perfect public figure, has been in front of a camera since his young body building days.

I cannot speak of him as our governor, I utterly ignore him.

Perdita

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Flicka:

In california direct democracy is practived in the form of something called initivies. These are basically legislation proposed by citizens and then put on the ballot if enough citizens petition to have them added. In basic terms the citizens can bypass the state legislature and pass laws they want. Those laws must still face judicial review, but cannot be blocked, or amended to death by the state legislature and if passed become law, just like those that make it through the legislature.

Prop stands for proposition. It's what you call proposed legislation that is on a ballot or that proponents are trying to get on a ballot. The poropsitions have numbers. So prop 47 might be no gay marriage, prop 48 might be no social security for illegal immigrants, prop 49 may be higher emissions standards for automobiles, there is no rhyme or reason to the numbering system I am aware of. I believe they get their prop numbers when they get a certina number of signatures on a petition in a chronological order if approved, but I may be wrong.

Snoopy:
Am I the only one in this world that actually likes Arnie, not only as an actor but as a person.

Apparently not, he won the election When you look at the field of candidates I have to agree wtih you, California could have done a lot worse. Marey Carey, Larry Flint, Gallagher, and Gary Coleman come to mind immediatly. Davis and Bustamante are corrupt party hacks. Simon is a neo-con wanna be. All in all, the Governator is probably no worse than the other choices and possibly better than a lot of them.

-Colly

 

[SnoopDog]

Well Perdita, I have to admit he's not a great actor, but he can act some.
And Colly, well he's he has been elected so there have to be some people that actually like him besides me. Sadly enough just because he won doesn't mean he had the most votes. *coughbushcough*
Nah, just kidding, lol
Snoopy

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Well Perdita, I have to admit he's not a great actor, but he can act some.
And Colly, well he's he has been elected so there have to be some people that actually like him besides me. Sadly enough just because he won doesn't mean he had the most votes. *coughbushcough*
Nah, just kidding, lol
Snoopy

As far as his election goes his best move was hiring handlers who were bright enough to prohibit him from saying anything substantial. His victory was far more a vote against politics as usual than it was a vote for arnie.

-Colly

 

[Guest]

Well Perdita, I have to admit he's not a great actor, but he can act some.

Aw, Snoop, "act some"? No, he only makes learned and practiced expressions at the direction of those who view him as a commodity, which he is (in films). I'm adamant here. Like him, of course, but he's a human action figure, NOT an actor.

Perdita

 

[MathGirl]

I like Arnold. Many Hollywood types make so much money that they can afford to be liberal democrats. Support tax and spend programs, because they will still have a pile when it's all over. Arnold has remained a Republican. Personally, I suppose I'm sort of a fascist, but at least the Reps are on the right side of the middle.
MG
Ps. I hope this starts a nice foaming at the mouth, fangs out, snarling political debate here. I would never participate, but they're fun to observe.
Pps. End of subject. Finito.

 

[Guest]

Beware "The Govenator"

End Response.

J

 

[SnoopDog]

@Perdita: Well, ever tried acting, it's pretty difficult. I consider everyone who acts in front of a camera an actor, even Arnie. Of course he got his jobs for doing some action and being worked-out. But I still regard him as an actor. Of course he'd suck on Broadway.
@MathGirl: Thank god I am not alone in this, lol
@jmt: Sean Bean is sooo cool
Snoopy

 

[Boxlicker101]

Flicka:

In california direct democracy is practived in the form of something called initivies. These are basically legislation proposed by citizens and then put on the ballot if enough citizens petition to have them added. In basic terms the citizens can bypass the state legislature and pass laws they want. Those laws must still face judicial review, but cannot be blocked, or amended to death by the state legislature and if passed become law, just like those that make it through the legislature.

Prop stands for proposition. It's what you call proposed legislation that is on a ballot or that proponents are trying to get on a ballot. The poropsitions have numbers. So prop 47 might be no gay marriage, prop 48 might be no social security for illegal immigrants, prop 49 may be higher emissions standards for automobiles, there is no rhyme or reason to the numbering system I am aware of. I believe they get their prop numbers when they get a certina number of signatures on a petition in a chronological order if approved, but I may be wrong.

Snoopy:
Am I the only one in this world that actually likes Arnie, not only as an actor but as a person.

Apparently not, he won the election When you look at the field of candidates I have to agree wtih you, California could have done a lot worse. Marey Carey, Larry Flint, Gallagher, and Gary Coleman come to mind immediatly. Davis and Bustamante are corrupt party hacks. Simon is a neo-con wanna be. All in all, the Governator is probably no worse than the other choices and possibly better than a lot of them.

-Colly

Propositions get placed on the ballot through two routes. If the legislature puts them there, they are called referendums. If they are put there by citizens, they are called initiatives. I believe 57 and 58 were put there by the legislature so they were referendums.

In order to replace the incumbent, Gray Davis, who was recalled, a majority of the voters had to vote to boot him and that is what happened. Arnie won a plurality of the votes cast so he replaced Davis. As I recall, He actually won a majority so Californians must have wanted him. Most of the candidates were jokes or publicity stunts; I think there were five or so serious candidates.

So fare, Arnie doesn't seem too bad. He does not oppose gay marriage but says they ae illegal in Calif, which they are, so they should be stopped. He seems to be more of a Libertarian than a Rep. but he does have an obligation to try to see to it that laws are obeyed.

Since I am on Flicka's ignore list, she won't see this unless someone copies it to another post.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Propositions get placed on the ballot through two routes. If the legislature puts them there, they are called referendums. If they are put there by citizens, they are called initiatives. I believe 57 and 58 were put there by the legislature so they were referendums.

In order to replace the incumbent, Gray Davis, who was recalled, a majority of the voters had to vote to boot him and that is what happened. Arnie won a plurality of the votes cast so he replaced Davis. As I recall, He actually won a majority so Californians must have wanted him. Most of the candidates were jokes or publicity stunts; I think there were five or so serious candidates.

So fare, Arnie doesn't seem too bad. He does not oppose gay marriage but says they ae illegal in Calif, which they are, so they should be stopped. He seems to be more of a Libertarian than a Rep. but he does have an obligation to try to see to it that laws are obeyed.

Since I am on Flicka's ignore list, she won't see this unless someone copies it to another post.

Thanks for the clarification.

-Colly

 

[SlickTony]

One thing I read about Arnold that impressed me is that if one of his cars breaks down three times, he gets rid of it. Having grown up with someone who kept Studebakers and cursed and swore and took out on everybody over a variety of lemon machines, I find this modus operandi refreshingly commonsensical.

I like the American tradition of colorful and interesting characters as governors. Look how many we've had.

 

[MathGirl]

Originally posted by SlickTony I like the American tradition of colorful and interesting characters as governors. Look how many we've had.

Dear Slick,
If you like interesting gubernators, I suggest the biographies of George Corley Wallace and Lester Maddox. Those two are one of a kind.
MG

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Dear Slick,
If you like interesting gubernators, I suggest the biographies of George Corley Wallace and Lester Maddox. Those two are one of a kind.
MG

Huey P. Long and Ross barnette and Bilbo as well.

-Colly

 

[Vincent E]

Governor of note: Calvin Coolidge.

The referendum, recall, and initiative process is a hallmark of American democracy, however not all states have these processes. Svenskaflicka, it is important to understand that under our federal system of government the 50 states have the ability to design their various systems of government as long as they do not contravene the United States Constitution. For instance, 49 states have bicameral legislatures (an upper house and a lower house), but Nebraska has a unicameral legislature - only one house. It is unique in that regard. Also most states' laws are based in English Common law, but Louisiana's are based on Napoleonic code.

For an in depth explanation of Napoleonic code please see Marlon Brando's work in A Streetcar Named Desire.

For the most part the big laws, ie rape, murder, robbery, are the same from state to state. The little laws, ie how far from a residence a septic system must be can vary widely. In some states, like my own little hamlet of Massachusetts, we have an initiative process that our elected leaders typically choose to ignore unless it suits them personally. For instance, the voters choose to lower a tax rate on income, but the legislature is perfectly able to override the will of the voters and pass a new tax rate that they see fit. A surcharge was placed on the sales of cigarettes in order to raise money for anti-smoking educational programs, but the legislature decided to change the law before the ink was dry and bring the new cigarette tax money into the general fund. It takes several years to get an initiative on the ballot, but a legislature can reverse that law in a day or two, and it is all perfectly constitutional since the legislature has the power to pass laws.

Some laws are passed by voters that legislatures dare not touch. For instance we here in the Bay State have had Proposition 2 1/2 since 1980. It was a law that made it illegal for cities and towns to raise the property tax rate more than 2 1/2% without an override vote by the residents of that community. The 2 1/2 number had nothing to do with its placement on the ballot, rather it was a quick description of the proposed law. In general we refer to initiative and referendum questions as Question 1 or Question 2, the order in which they appear on the ballot. Massachusetts and California do things differently in this regard.

The intiative process is not flawless. Sometimes organizations go through a great deal of hard work to get the signatures necessary to get a question on the ballot or an amendment to a state constitution before the legislature. Sometimes a state's attorney general will not validate the proposed question and we never get to vote on it. This is legal so long as the judiciary approves of the AG's decision on constitutional grounds, ie the proposed law would be a violation of the state constitution. In some blatant abuses of power a legislature will adjourn a state constitutional convention before considering a proposed amendment evne though they are legally obliged to consider it for a vote. This seems to be a victory for opponent's of an amendment, but it creates a dangerous precedent that can come back to haunt you.

Ultimately democracy is what you make of it.

As for Schwartzenegger getting a new car when the old one breaks down, he's keeping those auto workers in Detroit working.

I am loathe to get into political arguments here at Lit; I come here to get away from that stuff. But it might be fun standing on the sidelines with MG as she cheers on the combatants in a frenzied free-for-all. Especially if she is wearing a certain plaid skirt. Inside joke.

 

[Starblayde]

Sadly enough just because he won doesn't mean he had the most votes. *coughbushcough*
Nah, just kidding, lol
Snoopy

Nixon got more than Kennedy. Who turned out to be the better el presidente?

 

[SnoopDog]

Nixon got more than Kennedy. Who turned out to be the better el presidente?

That's true.
Snoopy

 

[kellycummings]

Nixon got more than Kennedy. Who turned out to be the better el presidente?

The only two times a winner lost the popular vote was Bush/Gore and one that was back a ways. Of course I don't remember who now that I started this. Long time before Nixon and Kennedy though. Doesn't matter really.
I think who the best president was between those two is debatable. Nixon was excellent at foreign affairs and the economy wasn't too bad then. Kennedy was well liked and a great speaker but was the Clinton of his time. Nixon got caught, Kennedy didn't. I don't really side with either one of them myself. Too young to remember much about the Nixon era and Kennedy was a couple years before my time. I've heard pretty convincing arguments for both of them though.

 

[SnoopDog]

The only two times a winner lost the popular vote was Bush/Gore and one that was back a ways. Of course I don't remember who now that I started this. Long time before Nixon and Kennedy though. Doesn't matter really.
I think who the best president was between those two is debatable. Nixon was excellent at foreign affairs and the economy wasn't too bad then. Kennedy was well liked and a great speaker but was the Clinton of his time. Nixon got caught, Kennedy didn't. I don't really side with either one of them myself. Too young to remember much about the Nixon era and Kennedy was a couple years before my time. I've heard pretty convincing arguments for both of them though.

Well I guess both had some skeletons in their cupboards.
Snoopy,
P.S.: Kelly- congrats to your 400 posts

 

[Svenskaflicka]

MG) Hiss, snarl, spit... I'm a communist.