Evidence?

[Spinaroonie]

The US claims to have a videotape that 'proves' Bin Laden was responsable for the Sept. 11 attacks. Here's their evidence. OBL sez that the damage was more than he expcted. That's it.

There's any number of reasons how that doesn't link that to him.

#1. It could've easily been another terrorist cell's work and he just knew about it.
#2 For what happened it did more damage that anyone thought it would. The two towers down and several surrounding buildings? That's more than I thought you could do with only two planes.

I guess by that statement I did it.

 

[Moridin187]

The US government wants to inflict the full extent of America's wrath on Bin Laden. I honestly don't know if he did it or not. I think he did. But then after Oklahoma City everyone thought he was responsible for that too. *shrugs* I'm just going to wait and see how it all plays out. We should drag him to the Hague, not pull this Military Tribunal shit though.

 

[modest mouse]

Good point SD. Its the Gov. assuring the general public and a healthy dose of wishful thinking.

 

[oakleyx4]

Bin Laden

I am sure the U.S has proof. They just havnt let you see it. I am sure its in the mail.

 

[YogiBare]

Kill the bastard.

 

[Nobody Special's wife]

What about sadom sussen.. ( I know I can't spell ) cause he hates up too...

 

[WriterDom]

Bin Laden is a really nice guy, just misunderstood. He had applied to get the terror camps accredited as a University. A few rock throwing Palestinians had already been accepted as quarterbacks. 20 or so Saudis had been pigging out on pork to beef up the line. Afgan women had ordered blue and silver burqa cheerleader outfits. They were hoping to enter the Big East conference, but Miami threatened to pull out if they had to face the competition.

 

[KillerMuffin]

We have enemies, always have always will.

I thought about it, I like the military tribunal idea myself simply because it's quick and efficient. You get the case decided and sentence is executed. The death penalty is available and there are no appeals. That pleases the part of me that wants justice.

I don't think it's the way to go because it doesn't please the part of me that's proud of my country. We stand for something in jurisprudence. Innocent until proven guilty, a chance for a fair trial before a jury of peers, and a chance for a defense. Appeals are available in the case that something about the trial goes wrong and it still makes it through. It's long, full of imperfections, but it's still a very good system and I have faith in it. If we try Bin Laden in a military tribunal, then we are showing not only the world, but ourselves that we have no confidence in our system of justice and no confidence in the Constitution.

However, there is no way Bin Laden can get a fair trial in the United States of America. Period. Everyone is prejudiced against him because who hasn't seen the World Trade Center collapse on itself by now? Who hasn't seen the victims suffering? This only leaves two options. Try Bin Laden in another country where he could get a fair trial, in particularly a world court or try him in front of a military tribunal.

The US is, I believe, the only industrialized nation that still has a death penalty. That is what the Bush Administration wants and thats what a lot of people in this country want. If Bin Laden is tried in the Hague, there is no death penalty, just life imprisonment. If he goes before a military tribunal and found guilty, he will die.

Now, before we get into the whole death penalty thing, we must also consider a few other points.

1) Can Bin Laden be rehabilitated and turned into a non-terrorist?
2) If he is imprisoned for life, can Bin Laden still run Al Quada (sp?)?
3) Is Bin Laden too dangerous to world peace to be permitted to live?
4) Is Bin Laden a terrorist or a soldier?

I agree with Donald Rumsfeld who sees this very clearly. I hope Bin Laden is killed in the battlefield. It would solve a great deal of problems for our side. The rub is that he doesn't get a chance to defend himself in open court, which is one of the main freedoms that America stands for.

Safety and hypocracy or principles and fear?

 

[Guest]

i think the plan from the start has been a dead bin laden. For all the reasons that Muffin wrote. I hate this tribunal thing. It seems to me that it insults our judicial system. I do not think the founders had in mind that we use there creation only when using it would prove to be smooth and without a hitch. If I know anything i know it works. Does anyone remember the Simpson trial. I never saw a more quilty man in my life yet he was aquited. I do not know that bin laden would not get a fair trial. I think that it is moot however because i belief the plan is to kill him.

 

[YogiBare]

I also agree with Rumsfeld

First of all, who is left to testify against Bin Lauden?

Not the 19 suicide terrorists.

Not many of his high-ranking aides, who are being killed at the present time.

I hate to say this, especially as a certified Liberal/ACLU type, but he doesn't deserve justice. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Kill him in the field, even if he were to try to surrender. Nobody on the airplanes or in the Trade Center were given the opportunity to surrender. Kill him as you would a jackal.

 

[Tabby432]

I really don't care how it looks to the world. Can you imagine the fucking circus here if he was brought to trial?

I see people selling t-shirts outside of the court house... court tv.. interviews with Barbra... terrorists and protesters...grieving families in the court room... protection for the jury... book deals for the jury... media camped out 24/7... it goes on and on.

Kill 'im. In the field or through military tribunal just don't bring him to trial here.

 

[MidnightAngel]

Re: I also agree with Rumsfeld

...he doesn't deserve justice. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Kill him in the field, even if he were to try to surrender. Nobody on the airplanes or in the Trade Center were given the opportunity to surrender. Kill him as you would a jackal.

I totally agree, YB!!!!!

 

[SINthysist]

SD

There's more which you may have chosen to ignore on that vidiotape, so let us flesh out the evidence a bit more.

He was crowing that some of the people that he had sent on the planes did not know they were on a suicide mission.

Does this still suggest to you third-hand knowlege of what some other group like Hamas, or Hezbollah was doing?

 

[Spinaroonie]

The video hasn't been released yet, so when I'll see it, then I'll look for the other clues... however, the US is saying that my quotes that started the thread are the strongest argument.... That doesn't say a lot to me.

 

[AskACumSlut]

I guarantee Osama will not be captured. He will be shot or bombed and his body will be displayed a la Dillinger. That's the reason they keep trying to say his defenders are suicidal. Is it suicide if someone shoots you? I smell another conspiracy. There will be no trial in America.

 

[Dixon Carter Lee]

There's no chance that Pakistan, England, Turkey and the other countries in the coaltion (including RUSSIA for God's sake) would be supporting the U.S. led effort if the proof they were given was in any way ambigious or sprurious. He did it.

 

[Moridin187]

*raises a hand*

I just have to say.. That if we kill him, by military action or through tribunal, his blood will fertilze the earth for a thousand more like him..

There's nothing that will further a cause like the leader becoming a martyr.

 

[modest mouse]

Friggin' Dbl post.

 

[modest mouse]

I think some people are overextending the point SD was trying to make. According to the Gov. this tape is such strong evidence that all the other evidence is secondary. The problem being that their parametes for decreeing such a thing are inordinately vague, which SD points out with his 2 examples. The comments that the Gov. has alluded to are far less than a total admission of guilt.

Once the tape becomes public(which it will), we can judge for ourselves.

I dont think many people are questioning the guilt of Usama Bin Laden, but the voracity of the evidence seems a bit in dispute(in regards to the specific videotape).

 

[AskACumSlut]

I have a question: Why make a public gesture of whether or not you want everyone to take a peek at your damning evidence?


It's the equal of saying: I've got pix of the Bush twins in the shower drunkenly soaping each other up. Should I make them public?

Of course you want to take a peek. Osama's got dreamy eyes.

 

[Moridin187]

I dunno about Osama... But share those Bush girl pics AACS!!!

 

[YogiBare]

Why is everyone worrying about the details of evidence?

You're out in the middle of a rugby field trying to play by the rules of Emily Post. We could all get killed that way. He's a dangerous bastard.

Look, you have a guy here who has vowed to destroy the US. There is major evidence connecting him to some of the worst terrorist attacks of the past 50 years. He's put together a goddamned army to accomplish his goal of destroying us.

Don't split hairs about avidence. Don't play nicey-nice. This is war.

Kill the bastard jackel.

We can't let him get up off the mat when we have a chance to put him away, like we did with Saddam 10 years ago.

 

[Spinaroonie]

Re: Why is everyone worrying about the details of evidence?

Look, you have a guy here who has vowed to destroy the US. There is major evidence connecting him to some of the worst terrorist attacks of the past 50 years. He's put together a goddamned army to accomplish his goal of destroying us.

WHAT major evidence? The fact that he was surprised by the amount of damage done?

 

[Spinaroonie]

The Evidence the US has is on a tape that was TAPED OVER. The video has horrible quality Bin Laden that they can barely tell is him and then it goes into Resivoir Dogs. So, in a country where TV is illegal, they just go into a house and then find a video and decide to watch it and then suddenly there's Osama? Sounds pretty fishy to me. And then for our military to go into every house and jsut watch videos? What kind of organization is that?

 

[YogiBare]

SD412, you're on that evidence kick again. It's not about evidence. We don't need evidence. This is war. You declare your intention to annhialate us, we annhialate you before you can do the job. Ba dum dum. Case closed.

Kill the bastard.