European Armaments Manufacturers

[ChloeTzang]

Oh like how the USA joined in 1917, and the troops got there in 1918. The US didn't win WW1, it got there at the end.

WW2 was a joint effort,and the Russians bore the brunt of it. Japan surrendered not because of the A-bomb,but because Stalin agreed to join the US in the advance on the home islands.

What WW2 did was make America a superpower of manufacturing. Which lead directly to the USA's birth as a superpower. You know that guy, Einstein who sent FDR the letter about splitting the atom, and the other guy, Oppen something who managed to build the device. Leaving America to claim ownership of the most powerful weapon in existence. Prior to that England was the super power.

Lets add another subject to the HisArpy barrel of ignorance.

Well, the USA was American in focus, as in "all others keep out," and the superpowers were Britain and France - Britain thx to the Royal Navy. and France due to it's Army and Air Force - their tanks were the best. their artillery was great, their aircraft were top of the line, and they were the secondmost colonial power after the British Empire. Germany was an up and comer, and then there was the USSR, which had built a very capable military under Mikhail Tukhachevsky.

There was a huge movement to keep the USA out of another "European War" (the parallels with Trump are obvious), and Roosevelt more or less forced Japan into WW2. The warning bell for Pearl Harbor was sounded on July 26, 1941, the day President Franklin D. Roosevelt cut off the Japanese empire from American oil in response to Tokyo's aggression on the Asian mainland. This left the Imperial Navy with just 18 months supply of fuel and made war inevitable. The primary target for the Japanese Navy were the Dutch oil fields in the Dutch East Indies (Indoneasia), and Pearl Harbor was only a side show, intended to keep the US Navy from interfering. The USA obviously responded to Japan's attack, but it was only Hitler's declaration of war on the USA as a gesture of solidarity with Japan that brought the USA into the European War, much to the warmonger Roosevelt's joy. After all, he'd deliberately provoked Japan hoping fr just such a response, because there was no other way he could engineer the USA into WW2. Congress wouldn't hace stood for it.

Now if the Japanese had just left Pearl Harbor alone and gone straight for the Dutch East Indies, he might not have had an excuse and things might have worked out otherwise......

 

[ChloeTzang]

But it should be pointed out FDR was fully in favour of joining in 1939. It was those damn isolationists who prevented out right involvement leading to the "lend lease" agreement, etc. I guess those isolationists descendants are at it again.

Yep. Looks like the American Isolationists are at the helm. Scary stuff.

 

[domroger]

But it should be pointed out FDR was fully in favour of joining in 1939. It was those damn isolationists who prevented out right involvement leading to the "lend lease" agreement, etc. I guess those isolationists descendants are at it again.

Agreed his hands were tied by them,DJT would have brought the US into war on Germany's side.

 

[Bray123]

I disagree. Do I have to remind you of the famous incidents we call WWI and WWII?

NATO was formed in 1949, after WW1 and WW2. Your point is Trumptard.

The US joined WW1 late, due to the threat of Mexico attacking the US.
The US joined WW2 late, due to Japan attacking and Hitler declaring war.

/Do you still say that Signal Chat is approved for Top Secret military & government communications?

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Well, the USA was American in focus, as in "all others keep out,"

Is that the "politically correct" way of writing "isolationist"?

and the superpowers were Britain and France - Britain thx to the Royal Navy. and France due to it's Army and Air Force - their tanks were the best. their artillery was great, their aircraft were top of the line, and they were the secondmost colonial power after the British Empire.

I only mentioned the #1 power. But you're correct France was on paper #2.

Germany was an up and comer, and then there was the USSR, which had built a very capable military under Mikhail Tukhachevsky.

There was a huge movement to keep the USA out of another "European War" (the parallels with Trump are obvious), and Roosevelt more or less forced Japan into WW2. The warning bell for Pearl Harbor was sounded on July 26, 1941, the day President Franklin D. Roosevelt cut off the Japanese empire from American oil in response to Tokyo's aggression on the Asian mainland. This left the Imperial Navy with just 18 months supply of fuel and made war inevitable. The primary target for the Japanese Navy were the Dutch oil fields in the Dutch East Indies (Indoneasia), and Pearl Harbor was only a side show, intended to keep the US Navy from interfering. The USA obviously responded to Japan's attack, but it was only Hitler's declaration of war on the USA as a gesture of solidarity with Japan that brought the USA into the European War, much to the warmonger Roosevelt's joy. After all, he'd deliberately provoked Japan hoping fr just such a response, because there was no other way he could engineer the USA into WW2. Congress wouldn't hace stood for it.

Thanks, but save the history lesson for people like rightguide and HisArpy...lol

Now if the Japanese had just left Pearl Harbor alone and gone straight for the Dutch East Indies, he might not have had an excuse and things might have worked out otherwise......

I've wondered on that before. As well on if Germany had not turned on Russia.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Is that the "politically correct" way of writing "isolationist"?

lol. Yes indeedy!

Thanks, but save the history lesson for people like rightguide and HisArpy...lol

LOL again. Those who study actual history are so few....

I've wondered on that before. As well on if Germany had not turned on Russia.

Oh yeah, all sorts of "what if's" there. Great material for alternative histories

 

[HisArpy]

Yes Dragged, you definitely need a history lesson. What dragged the US into the war, Pearl Harbour. Up until the point where American lives were lost on a large scale, the US steadfastly refused to get involved. WWII started in September 1939. The US joined the fray in December 1941. That is a full five months after Germany's big mistake of turning on their Russian allies.

And once that was done, what happened next?

Hint: The largest voluntary mobilization of manpower in history.

 

[HisArpy]

The point is NOT a NATO incursion into Russia. The point is to build a credible and effective EU military that will be capabe of wiping out any Russian incursion into NATO countries - including in future Ukraine, a democratic Belarus, Georgia and Armenia.

Russia has already transgressed into Poland several times. The only reason there wasn't a response is because the US refused to support retaliation by Poland because it would invoke Art 5.

The end result of this war Putin has launched is that the Russian Federation will collapse, Muscovy will resume it's place as a post-colonial country without the resources of its colonies to loot and exploit, and the EU can step in as needed, with the emerging states aligning with China or the EU....

The KGB will not allow that to happen. It will get close, but Putin's days are numbered unless he can somehow pull out a win in Ukraine. Not a stalemate, a win.

And I don't see that happening.

True. AT some point the Russian economic and military collapse will result in Putin's removal and the inevitable disintegration of the Russian Federation. All sorts of options there, but Russian nuclear weapons and facilitiies will need to be secured safely.

By whom? The UN with its Middle Eastern loving heart and supporters? It certainly won't be the EU or the US because of a lack of trust and whatever iteration of Russia develops will be too weak to do it.

Yeah, the whole off shoring thig was just looting the USA and strip mining our industry.

Eventually even sheep wake up and realize they're being fleeced.

Thing is, based on what Trump has said and done, they WILL tool up. It won't happen overnight, but Europe will increasingly abandon US weapons systems and revert to their own. Ukraine is leading the way there, and the funding fr Ukraine is boosting all the EU defense manufacturers.

I doubt it. The US has the stuff the entire world wants. Arms, food, international security, fair taxation rates, stable monetary supply, and a healthcare system unsurpassed by anyone. If other nations want to bypass the US for those things, they're going to have to create them on their own and that will require an entire remake of their political/social system.

Which isn't going to happen because it will mean those in power will quickly find themselves on the outside of the locked door of opportunity.

 

[HisArpy]

The warning bell for Pearl Harbor was sounded on July 26, 1941, the day President Franklin D. Roosevelt cut off the Japanese empire from American oil in response to Tokyo's aggression on the Asian mainland. This left the Imperial Navy with just 18 months supply of fuel and made war inevitable.

If Japan had decided to capitulate to economic reality rather than seize by force that which they had no right to, there wouldn't have been a pacific theater and all those lost lives, and the horrors perpetuated in the jungles, wouldn't have happened.

The lesson no one seems to take away is that working together is always a better solution than violence. Japan is better off today than it was prior to WWII because it trades with the world for the things it doesn't have domestically.

OTOH, Russia isn't for the exact opposite reason. Poor leadership.

 

[DeYaKen]

And once that was done, what happened next?

Hint: The largest voluntary mobilization of manpower in history.

What happened next? I thought you knew some history. What happened next was the USA declared war on Japan. Then Japan's ally, Germany declared war on the USA. At that point, the USA could not stand idly by and watch the fight in Europe. Like I said, they were dragged into the fight. The US NEVER came to the rescue of Europe, they joined the fray because they were forced into it. Their manpower and weaponry made a big difference and shortened the war significantly. However, to say that the US came in to Bale Europe out couldn't be further from the truth. The US joined in because Germany gave them no choice.

 

[HisArpy]

What happened next? I thought you knew some history. What happened next was the USA declared war on Japan. Then Japan's ally, Germany declared war on the USA. At that point, the USA could not stand idly by and watch the fight in Europe. Like I said, they were dragged into the fight. The US NEVER came to the rescue of Europe, they joined the fray because they were forced into it. Their manpower and weaponry made a big difference and shortened the war significantly. However, to say that the US came in to Bale Europe out couldn't be further from the truth. The US joined in because Germany gave them no choice.

You're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts.

The US came into the war, either by hook or by crook, and did it with a FULL THROATED ROAR. People with no life plans to join the military rushed to enlist by the tens of thousands just so they could fight.

And then they threw themselves into places like Okinawa (49,000 casualties, 12,000 dead) and Ardennes (80,000 casualties, 19m000+ dead) KNOWING what they were going to be facing.

And then there's the invasion of Normandy and Lend/Lease.

To belittle that effort and patriotism only proves you have neither manhood nor intelligence.

 

[rgraham666]

I've wondered on that before. As well on if Germany had not turned on Russia.

It would only have been a matter of time before the USSR attacked Nazi Germany. And since Stalin's purges would have cut even deeper into the Red Army's officer corps that attack would likely have been a spectacular failure.

Beyond that would be fantasizing, not speculating.

 

[DeYaKen]

You're entitled to your own opinion but you're not entitled to your own facts.

The US came into the war, either by hook or by crook, and did it with a FULL THROATED ROAR. People with no life plans to join the military rushed to enlist by the tens of thousands just so they could fight.

And then they threw themselves into places like Okinawa (49,000 casualties, 12,000 dead) and Ardennes (80,000 casualties, 19m000+ dead) KNOWING what they were going to be facing.

And then there's the invasion of Normandy and Lend/Lease.

To belittle that effort and patriotism only proves you have neither manhood nor intelligence.

Now that is opinion, whereas mine were facts. I didn't belittle anything. The US did not enter the war until Pearl Harbour. They did not commit any troops or equipment to the European theatre of war until Germany declared war on the USA. That is not my opinion, that is verifiable fact. If you have information to the contrary, let's see it.
You write as if their willingness to fight made the US troops something special. Have you forgotten that the British, Free French, Canadian and Poles had been doing exactly the same thing with less equipment for two years before the US made an entrance. British and Canadian troops also took part in the Normandy landings. Yes, they also knew what awaited them. Many of them were veterans of the previous war, where once again the USA was a late arrival. You want to talk casualties, take a look at the Russian total. 20 million. yes, 20,000,000 dead. makes everyone else's look trivial.
Now we come to Lease/Lend, a scheme whereby the USA provided ships that were considered beyond their useful life and similar military equipment to the allies to be paid for at a later date. It was Britain that made the deal so it was Britain that paid the price. Right up to 1954 the British people had to endure food rationing because their was not enough money to import food and service the debt to their "Friends" in the USA. It took until 1998 but that money was paid back. The USA "gave" them nothing. what did they get for their money? well it certainly was not up to date equipment. I have knowledge of one Atlantic convoy where they lost five freighters supplied under lease/lend, without encountering the enemy. They were barely sea-worthy when they left the US, or at least that is what the merchant seamen who had to abandon them claimed.
I have great respect for the actual men and women that fought in that war, be they British, American, Canadian, Russian, French, and yes, even German. I have no respect for the politician who refused to help, so-called, friends until they had no other choice. I have even less respect for people of today saying Europe should be grateful to them. because their forefathers got sent to fight in a war that their government kept the country out of until they had no choice. All I can say is that the teaching of American history is sadly lacking if they have been taught that the US came rushing to Europe's aid and slew the fascist dragon. The facts show that it never happened that way.

 

[HisArpy]

Now that is opinion whereas mine were facts. I didn't belittle anything. the US did not enter the war until Pearl Harbour. They did not commit any troops or equipment to the European theatre of war until Germany declared war on the USA. That is not my opinion that is verifiable fact. If you have information to the contrary, let's see it.
You write as if their willingness to fight made the US troops something special. Have you forgotten that the British, Free French, Canadian and Poles had been doing exactly the same thing with less equipment for two years before the US made an entrance. British and Canadian troops also took part in the Normandy landings. Yes, they also knew what awaited them Many of them were veterans of the previous war where once again the USA was a late arrival. You want to talk casualties, take a look at the Russian total. 20 million. yes 20,000,000 dead. makes everyone elses look trivial.
Now we come to Lease/Lend, a scheme whereby the USA provided ships that were considered beyond their useful life and similar military equipment, to the allies to be paid for at a later date. It was Britain that made the deal so it was Britain that paid the price. Right up to 1954 the British people had to endure food rationing because their was not enough money to import food and service the debt to their "Friends" in the USA. It took until 1998 but that money was paid back. The USA "gave" them nothing. what did they get for their money? well it certainly was not up to date equipment. I have knowledge of one atlantic convoy where they lost five freighters supplied under lease/lend, without encountering trhe enemy. They were barely sea worthy when they left the US. or atleast that is what the merchant seamen that had to abandon them claimed.
I have great respect for the actual men and women that fought in that war be they British, American, Canadian, Russian, French, and yes, even German. I have no respect for the politician who refused to help, so called, friends until they had no other choice. I have even less respect for people of today saying Europe should be grateful to them. because there forefathers got sent to fight into a war that their government kept the country out of until they had no choice. All I can say is that the teaching of American history is sadly lacking if they have been taught that the US came rushing to Europe's aid and slew the fascist dragon. The facts show thatr it never happened that way.

tl;dr;stupid as all fuck

 

[DeYaKen]

tl;dr;stupid as all fuck

I take it you have no evidence to the contrary?

 

[HisArpy]

I take it you have no evidence to the contrary?

Evidence contrary to what? I didn't read (dr; ) your schpeel because it was

TOO LONG (tl; )
and
DUM AS ALL FUCK

Understand?

 

[rgraham666]

Now that is opinion, whereas mine were facts. I didn't belittle anything. The US did not enter the war until Pearl Harbour. They did not commit any troops or equipment to the European theatre of war until Germany declared war on the USA. That is not my opinion, that is verifiable fact. If you have information to the contrary, let's see it.
You write as if their willingness to fight made the US troops something special. Have you forgotten that the British, Free French, Canadian and Poles had been doing exactly the same thing with less equipment for two years before the US made an entrance. British and Canadian troops also took part in the Normandy landings. Yes, they also knew what awaited them. Many of them were veterans of the previous war, where once again the USA was a late arrival. You want to talk casualties, take a look at the Russian total. 20 million. yes, 20,000,000 dead. makes everyone else's look trivial.
Now we come to Lease/Lend, a scheme whereby the USA provided ships that were considered beyond their useful life and similar military equipment to the allies to be paid for at a later date. It was Britain that made the deal so it was Britain that paid the price. Right up to 1954 the British people had to endure food rationing because their was not enough money to import food and service the debt to their "Friends" in the USA. It took until 1998 but that money was paid back. The USA "gave" them nothing. what did they get for their money? well it certainly was not up to date equipment. I have knowledge of one Atlantic convoy where they lost five freighters supplied under lease/lend, without encountering the enemy. They were barely sea-worthy when they left the US, or at least that is what the merchant seamen who had to abandon them claimed.
I have great respect for the actual men and women that fought in that war, be they British, American, Canadian, Russian, French, and yes, even German. I have no respect for the politician who refused to help, so-called, friends until they had no other choice. I have even less respect for people of today saying Europe should be grateful to them. because their forefathers got sent to fight in a war that their government kept the country out of until they had no choice. All I can say is that the teaching of American history is sadly lacking if they have been taught that the US came rushing to Europe's aid and slew the fascist dragon. The facts show that it never happened that way.

The Fallen of WWII A graphical representation of the deaths in WWII.

 

[domroger]

The Fallen of WWII A graphical representation of the deaths in WWII.

A must watch if you have any interest in WW2.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

tl;dr;stupid as all fuck

Which is why you're a fucking moron, you're too stupid or afraid to learn. Everything DE wrote is verifiable. EVERYTHING.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Evidence contrary to what? I didn't read (dr; ) your schpeel because it was

TOO LONG (tl; )
and
DUM AS ALL FUCK

Understand?

Yes we all get you're a fucking moron, arpy. Carbon water, electrocution from a 12 volt car battery... You have along list of your stupidity floating around in cyber space. Hell you even doxed yourself. How's that for stupidity.....

 

[HisArpy]

I'm sorry I didn't rea;ise your attention span was so short.

It's not the only thing he has that's "short."

Just sayin'...

 

[ishtat]

A Small fact: Henry Ford supplied his last army truck to the German Army in November 1943 - two years after that country declared war on the USA.

A Big fact: The USSR's Red Army won WW2. Everything else was a sideshow.

 

[DeYaKen]

Evidence contrary to what? I didn't read (dr; ) your schpeel because it was

TOO LONG (tl; )
and
DUM AS ALL FUCK

Understand?

I guess your short attention span explains your lack of knowledge.

 

[HisArpy]

I guess your short attention span explains your lack of knowledge.

Yup, it sure does because I don't speak or understand stupidese.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Yup, it sure does because I don't speak or understand stupidese.

Really? You seem pretty fluent in it if you ask me.