Euro2004 support thread

[PaulUK]

I'd go along with a lot of that. England are bad at keeping the ball, and they cannot hope to keep a decent team from scoring if they give them enough ball. I think it depends what Portugal team comes out. Croatia showed little ambition until they were in trouble; that gave England space to play, and less pressure. Portugal have been guilty of that too (vs Greece, and vs Spain, in patches); on the other hand, if Figo, Ronaldo and others come at England, it will be very different.

Two keys for me: can Portugal contain Rooney, and will they recognise that this tournament could still be going in August and Pauletta still won't have scored...

 

[neonlyte]

Two keys for me: can Portugal contain Rooney, and will they recognise that this tournament could still be going in August and Pauletta still won't have scored...

I think Portugal will be completely fired up. You have no idea how big a deal it is beating Spain for the Portuguese, they even have statues here of battles with Portuguese horseman trampling the Spanish underfoot They built Cathedrals to commemorate victories over the Spanish, all around the border towns you can spot gargoyles on churches pointing their naked bums across the border

The question to throw back is can England contain Ronaldo without giving away penalties, some of his footwork against the Spanish was awesum, Terry in particular is not at the top of his game, I can see problems.

If neither side can contain Rooney or Ronaldo, it's going to be an exciting high scoring game. I'm still going to take Portugal - home advantage.

 

[PaulUK]

I'm not sure one way or the other. I hear your point, neon, about how fired up the Spanish game has made Portugal, but I also know it is hard to lift yourself twice, and emotionally England will not bring the same out of Portugal... so I don't see some big wave of passion pulling Portugal through.

On the other hand... it's England. We are almost as professional at exiting tournaments as Spain.

Ronaldo has achieved very little in the Premiership against those same defenders. I think he might worry Neville, or Scholes, who both lunge into challenges, but I don't think he will torment us in the same way as he did Real Brava. And he needs an outlet... and that is where Portugal struggle at the moment - who is going to get the goals from Ronaldo and Figo's crosses? Croatia had some big meat-heads at least...

I can't call it, but I don't see it being that high scoring... I don't think Portugal have it in them to score two or three against England... so it comes down to their ability to keep England out at the other end.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Paul, have you seen the last two games of Portugal? (Don't consider the game against Greece, that would be a mistake) Ricardo Carvalho is probably the best central defender in the world, and Jorge Andrade is definitely in the top 5. Nuno Valente is one of the most tactically disciplined left defender in the championship, and the entire defense and defenside midfield of Portugal play together at club level - they are European champions together at club level. The only soft spot on that defense is the right defender Miguel, who isn't performing badly either, and when he failed against Spain and they broke through, they still couldn't get past Ricardo Carvalho.

It will be a low scoring game. As against Spain, the question won't be can Portugal contain Rooney - they can. The question is can they score goals at the other end. Pauleta hasn't made a single shot at goal in the three matches me played so far, and he won't again on Thursday. (Yay) He's suspended for one match following a second yellow card, so Nuno Gomes will play instead. I remember him doing a thing or two against England in Euro2000.

 

[PaulUK]

I hear all you are saying, Laur. I think the Portugal defence will be a lot harder to break down than Croatia's; Andrade does look very good. It is also a blessing that Pauletta is suspended, because it forces the coach to do what everyone else seems to realise is required - Nuno Gomes is the better choice.

Three things, though, before you think I have given up *g* One, Nuno Gomes isn't quite the player who gave us a hard time before, and nor is Figo. Of course, if either of them wake up, we're in deep doo-doo.

Two, though your defence is good, you over-estimate what you did against Spain. Two efforts on the woodwork, which could have gone a couple of inches lower, or to one side, and then you'd be a very miserable babe! I have worries bout our defence, but I also think yours is very breachable, and similarly, you look vulnerable to crosses.

Finally, three, and I really do think this is important, you need to score. This tournament has been a graveyard for teams that only play one striker. Gomes for Pauletta is the right thing, but I think you'll struggle, and if you score more than one, I'll stop using the pics I have of you naked as wallpaper...

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Three things, though, before you think I have given up *g*

One, Nuno Gomes isn't quite the player who gave us a hard time before, and nor is Figo. Of course, if either of them wake up, we're in deep doo-doo.

And that was part of the problem against Greece. Nuno Gomes was never that player, really, and Figo is tired. That is why Portugal needed to play with Deco and Maniche in the midfield, to take the pressure of building offensive game off Figo's shoulders and free him to do what he can in penetration.

Two, though your defence is good, you over-estimate what you did against Spain. Two efforts on the woodwork, which could have gone a couple of inches lower, or to one side, and then you'd be a very miserable babe! I have worries bout our defence, but I also think yours is very breachable, and similarly, you look vulnerable to crosses.

Duh, of course I'm over-estimating. Wouldn't be a good Portuguese otherwise! But don't make any mistakes, our defence isn't 'good'. It's the best you'll come against in the tournament. Yes, they aren't immune to crosses, especially the goalkeeper, but then again, how many crosses were the Spanish allowed to make?

Finally, three, and I really do think this is important, you need to score. This tournament has been a graveyard for teams that only play one striker. Gomes for Pauletta is the right thing, but I think you'll struggle, and if you score more than one, I'll stop using the pics I have of you naked as wallpaper...

Portugal doesn't need forwards to score. The type of attacking football we play is based on quick highly skilled midfielders breaking through your defence with the ball controlled. Besides, your defence isn't exactly Spain's or Greece's. It's pretty much paper-thin and zero-pressure.

 

[PaulUK]

Oh, so you wanna get playful, eh? *g* Just for that, I am going to arrange for everyone to have you naked for wallpaper...

We'll have to leave Point 1 there... either Figo and Nuno will really come to life (Deco too), or they won't... it's hard to second-guess what form players will have!

The Spanish didn't come at you enough - part of that lack of ambition I was alluding to. Theye were guiulty of the same thing in 2002. The fact that they found the woodwork twice from only a few chances is my point.

Paper-thin!!! *gasp* Listen, you.. *g* We've let in four goals, all from dead ball positions. OK, so we have to expect you to get a few free-kicks in our half, but you haven't excelled in this area yet. Has Figo hit the target yet?

 

[Lauren Hynde]

The Spanish didn't come at you enough - part of that lack of ambition I was alluding to. Theye were guiulty of the same thing in 2002. The fact that they found the woodwork twice from only a few chances is my point.

This is from As, the biggest sports' newspaper in Spain:

"This was not like other defeats, this was much worse. There was not even a hint of glory or dignity this time - there was nothing positive to say and no excuses to make. There was no attractive play to boast about, there were no heroes and neither can we blame our elimination on the referee or plain bad luck."

Paper-thin!!! *gasp* Listen, you.. *g* We've let in four goals, all from dead ball positions. OK, so we have to expect you to get a few free-kicks in our half, but you haven't excelled in this area yet. Has Figo hit the target yet?

A Figo in bad form has made two assists for goal and there was this thing against Spain:

68' - Juanito (Spain) gives away a free-kick following a challenge on Maniche (Portugal).
69' - Figo (Portugal) takes a direct free-kick.
The captain takes the free-kick from 20 metres out and forces a flying fingertip save from Casillas. A good chance for the hosts to increase their lead.

If it were James on goal, you know it would have been in.

 

[PaulUK]

No, you mean if James had been my Fantasy goal-keeper, it would have...

I'm not surprised the Spanish press is furious; I would be too. Just as in 2002, somthing went wrong in the preparation that turned a team of excellent international players into a team of anxious, dis-united plodders. They never went out to dominate a game, except for that beautiful first half against Russia. Substitutions made were foolish. It's like the worst thing that can happen is for Spain to go 1-0 up.

I love Spanish football. A great-uncle of mine was one of the first British players ever to play in Spain (for Barca, in 1913). Raul is one of my favourite players; I love Puyol's commitment to the cause, wherever he plays. But the Spanish national team bites.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

A little bit of Euro-History:

When these teams got past the group stages, they...

http://www.euro2004.com/ml/euro2004/images/flags/17X17/39.gif England

1968 - lost in SF to Yugoslavia*
1996 - lost in SF to Germany**


http://www.euro2004.com/ml/euro2004/images/flags/17X17/110.gif Portugal

1984 - lost in SF to France**
1996 - lost in QF to Czech Republic*
2000 - lost in SF to France**


* went on to lose in the final
** went on to win the tournament


It's plain to see that England's record is lacking a defeat in the QF at the hands of an eventual tournament champion.

 

[Guest]

 

[SnoopDog]

Well, whatever happens, one of you will be pretty sad after the quarterfinals.
However, I don't see England or Portugal winning the thing. Both great teams that lack of the quality to actually bring a cup home.
Don't know how to explain this, maybe it's only something mental.

Then again, if you look at my predicting abilities in this tournament so far, one of them might easily be the champion in twelve days time....

I just hope we'll get to see more games like yesterday and the day before. Maybe with a bit of luck even the Italians tonight and ourselves tomorrow will show some good football.

Snoopy

 

[PaulUK]

Yeah, the Italians are confident. They have extra cameras at the Sweden vs Denmark game to make sure it's not a 2-2 draw!!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Official matches since the 1966 WC SF (when we were robbed )


1974 (Euro-76 qualifying)
England 0 - 0 Portugal

1975 (Euro-76 qualifying)
Portugal 1 - 1 England

1986 (World Cup)
England 0 - 1 Portugal

2000 (Euro-2000)
England 2 - 3 Portugal

 

[Black Tulip]

ROFLMAO

PORTO!!!

I got no English players in my team, but I do have Rui Costa.

 

[PaulUK]

I'm starting to feel ganged up on, here. Lou! You wanna see Laur naked, don't you? Get in here!

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Those dirty tactics will never work.

 

[PaulUK]

Hey, did I not predict Morientes wouldn't play after he saw you naked? This is a perfectly valid plan. Plus, you know, we can't keep having Rooney's picture on the front pages of all the papers. Goal-scoring legend he might be, but sex-symbol...?

 

[CrazyyAngel]

Official matches since the 1966 WC SF (when we were robbed )

Dont get me started on the 66 WC ... does "the Wembley goal" ring any bell?

CA

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Originally posted by PaulUK
Hey, did I not predict Morientes wouldn't play after he saw you naked? This is a perfectly valid plan. Plus, you know, we can't keep having Rooney's picture on the front pages of all the papers. Goal-scoring legend he might be, but sex-symbol...?

(Goal-scoring legend after 2 goals against Switzerland and Croatia, a forward that commits more fouls than he suffers and that has scored 9 times in 34 domestic league appearences in a club that has won ziltch? God, you guys really are desperate... )

 

[PaulUK]

Jeez, Angel, you've won it enough! That's our only one! Let it go, man!!!

As for you, Ms statistical Laur-pest, Rooney may have only netted four against Switzerland and Croatia, but isn't that as many as your whole team has scored all tournament?

Nemasis! Lou!!! Let's have a little help here! Don't make me have to come get you...

 

[Guest]

Dont get me started on the 66 WC ... does "the Wembley goal" ring any bell?

CA

We beat you 4 - 2, so that one goal that often gets brought up makes no difference whatsoever. And, don't go whining to me about if that goal hadn't been given.

Anyway, I'm not going to be drawn into any bashing of any team. I am smugly confident that we're gonna send you all packing. I have no need to be hateful or spiteful.

And, I wanna see Lauren get nekkid.

Lou

 

[SnoopDog]

You know, the good thing about being neither English nor Portuguese is that you can kiss the winner and hug the loser.

Snoopy, a winner whatsoever

 

[Liar]

And, I wanna see Lauren get nekkid.

Ok what the hell did I just miss!?



Most important games in the cup so far (for me at least) is one hour away, and for some reason I'm not the least bit nervous. Logically I should be, but I'm confident on the verge of hubris, that something will be rotten in the state of Denmark tonight, and it will be the mood of a couple of million danish supporters in front of their TV sets.

The Italians fear a rigged 2-2 game, that would send them home no matter what. No chance in hell that'll happen. Maybe an unrigged one...

#L

 

[SnoopDog]

Ok what the hell did I just miss!?



Most important games in the cup so far (for me at least) is one hour away, and for some reason I'm not the least bit nervous. Logically I should be, but I'm confident on the verge of hubris, that something will be rotten in the state of Denmark tonight, and it will be the mood of a couple of million danish supporters in front of their TV sets.

The Italians fear a rigged 2-2 game, that would send them home no matter what. No chance in hell that'll happen. Maybe an unrigged one...

#L

I agree. There won't be a rigged game. If somebody says so he's just looking for an excuse for Italy to be out of the tournament.
But I think Italy will advance nevertheless.
They'll win tonight. And I think there will be a winner in the 'Nordic Finale'.
If it were a rigged game though, I would thouroughly condemn Denmark and Sweden. This is just nothing that should be done at any level, be it the European Championships or the local derby of two small villages. Sport is sport. And fairness is always first priority.

So bring on another thrilling night of football, yeah.

Snoopy, forza Italia