Erotico-Literary Theory

sack_lunches

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Mar 24, 2003
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I think this site is wonderful; let me start there.

I have been coming here for a good long while, and I have sat back, watching the growth of the site and perusing my favorite authors. This really is a wonderful resource, and I hope that it continues to grow and flourish.

There is one question I would like to see discussed here, and I hope this thread gets replies from some of the more prolific authors and the guru-level posters to the forum in addition to hacks like me. My question concerns 'literature' v. 'wank material.'

I have a great amount of literary and publication background, though this is my first real expedition into writing erotica. I have been pleased by the response I've received and, though I'm not winning any awards, I'm getting what I need out of my postings to Literotica. I hope everyone feels the same way concerning their own work.

To be blunt, though, I'm finding some of the prose on this site a bit off the mark, in my humble opinion. Truly, authors are attempting to polish their craft and expand their repertoires, but isn't the major point of the stories on this site to arouse sexual impulses within certain parameters?

Here's the thing: If a given story is much more focused upon scenery, character development, or witty dialogue than it is on arousing sexual impulses of whatever sort, should it be lumped into the same categories as those stories which are intended solely to arouse? Surely, developed characters and lush environs can arouse, but when a seven-page story (I'm picking an arbitrary number) has 6 pages without any sexual content, is this really the place to post it? There is a 'non-sexual' category, after all...

In a recent thread, someone with a lot of experience on this site pointed out (in a completely different context) that people come here to masturbate to orgasm. Certainly, we all come to our arousal in different ways. I just wonder if some authors, anxious to ply their wares in a comfortable environment, may have lost sight of a central issue: Literotica is about erotic literature.

I hope this post does not offend anyone in particular. It is merely meant to raise discussion and, perhaps, to cause authors to pay a bit more attention to the sexual content of their stories. And, after all, I may be the only one who does not get aroused at long descriptions of trees and rivers. What do I know?

To each his or her own. Thanks.
 
sack_lunches said:
... My question concerns 'literature' v. 'wank material.' ... isn't the major point of the stories on this site to arouse sexual impulses within certain parameters? ...
IMHO there are some readers who are looking for erotica (yes) but with a level of literary merit. The real "left hand mouse" brigade are catered for on so many sites whereas it is difficult to find well written erotica.


sack_lunches said:
... I hope this post does not offend anyone in particular. It is merely meant to raise discussion ...
Oh, go on. The best way to start a good discussion is to get someone a little hot under the collar, though not by personal abuse, of course.
 
Porn, or erotica...

Personally, I believe if you're going to tell a story that has a sexual situation in it, then get down to it. I don't really care how many maples, scrubs, flowers, clouds, these people see on the way to bed, all I want to know is what brought them to that point, and then BANG, get on with it. It doesn't matter whether you consider the work porn, or erotica, tamate toes, tow matooos here, just don't waste my time is all I say.

As Always
I Am the
Dirt Man
 
Hello :) Since this seems to be about getting down to business, I shall do just that.

I am a writer, but I don't consider myself a seasoned writer. I do, however, consider myself a rather experienced reader. I enjoy it. I have read a lot of it. I know what I like. So this is my opinion from the standpoint of the audience, not a student of literature. Take it for what it's worth and with a grain or three of salt.

It's been pointed out that you can go to a lot of websites and get "sex" outright. There's some of that here too. It's out there. But I think this one is unique in that there are many writers who want their stories and poems to be arousing as well as a good read. Please allow me to demonstrate.

1. See Jane. See Jane's life. See Jane's Family. See Tim. See Tim's life. See Tim's motorboat. They meet. They doubt. They think. They go for a bike ride. Gee look! A caterpillar. They finally get to bed. <Insert moral here> The End.

2. See Jane. See Tim. Tim sees Jane undress. Tim thinks about Jane all day. Jane plays with herself and Tim walks in. They make eye contact. Foreplay. Fuck. Satisfaction. Moral or not as you see fit, the end.

3. See Jane. See Jane's cup size. Fuck Jane. The end.

All three have their places. The first, I would classify as the Romance Novel Scene. It's a story with some adult content.

The third is something I see here on a regular basis, but feel it might belong elsewhere. This is for erotica, not descriptions of a sex act.

The second, though... ahh the second. The porridge is just right. It's erotic the whole way through, but has a satisfying storyline. Pleasing to body and mind. Suspense ain't just for horror movies, dude! ;)

There you have my take on it.
((YAY! SHE'S DONE!!))
 
My view could not be more different to Dirt Man's.

If the author is competent and the plot and the characters have an appeal, the build up can be seen as literary foreplay, and as such, is essential.

I have no interest in stories, even well-written ones, that have minimum plot and maximum sex.

Octavian
 
Originally posted by sack_lunches

If a given story is much more focused upon scenery, character development, or witty dialogue than it is on arousing sexual impulses of whatever sort, should it be lumped into the same categories as those stories which are intended solely to arouse?

I use scenary, character development and dialogue as tools in building a story that will arouse the reader. An erotic story based primarily on sex scenes is not very rewarding to me, as a writer or reader.


Originally posted by sack_lunches
Surely, developed characters and lush environs can arouse, but when a seven-page story (I'm picking an arbitrary number) has 6 pages without any sexual content, is this really the place to post it? There is a 'non-sexual' category, after all...

I would be interested in knowing how you define "sexual content". Are you referring strictly to "sex scenes"? I would think 6 "lit" pages would be a bit much without some sexual content, but it really depends on the plot/storyline as well. That long buildup could make for one hell of a climax late in the story. Again, it depends on the plot and characters of that particular story, and how well the author handles the first 6 pages.

And who says that a story without an abundance, or any sex scenes is "non-sexual"?


Originally posted by sack_lunches
I just wonder if some authors, anxious to ply their wares in a comfortable environment, may have lost sight of a central issue: Literotica is about erotic literature.

There may be some that do this. However, I have not found but maybe a few such stories over the past few years of reading here. If anything, I find the opposite much more prevelant. I find more stories where authors seem to be focused on a scene instead of development of a plot and characters.


Originally posted by Dirt Man
Personally, I believe if you're going to tell a story that has a sexual situation in it, then get down to it. I don't really care how many maples, scrubs, flowers, clouds, these people see on the way to bed, all I want to know is what brought them to that point, and then BANG, get on with it. It doesn't matter whether you consider the work porn, or erotica, tamate toes, tow matooos here, just don't waste my time is all I say.

If you only want to read the sexual situation, then there is no point in writing a "story". To each there own I guess. To me, that would be like going to the movies, but only interested in how it ends. Why not just show up late and slip in for the last 15 minutes of it then. But those that have been there for the entire time will have a much greater appreciation for the ending, if the story is told well.


In summary, I don't like using a formula for my stories. I like to tell a story. Sex could happen at any time within that story, and usually does. Situations arise that affect the characters as the story moves along. The most powerful sex scene could be anywhere in the story, at any time. Life isn't a formula, and neither should a story. Many things intercede into our lives and relationships, at anytime. So it should be in a story, in my opinion.


Pookie :rose:
 
While I have on occasion written a simple wank piece for fun I tend to delve much more into the character's and thoughts and everything. Simply I pour My heart and sould into almost every piece of work I put out there. Yes, I am one of the few that can sit down and rip off a full competent piece of work in a few hours.

I try and put more than sex into a story and the readers that send feedback and yes there are a few well known authors from here that regularly send feedback to Me, appreciate the fact that there is more than just plain old sex. I have a penchant for throwing wild twists into the story that at the end makes people either go oh yeah I should have seen that coming. Or "What the Fuck was that all about."

Either way there are many good authors dare I say great ones here that tell a story and draw you in and before you can say where's the sex they hit you with torrid scenes of lust only to return you to their main plot.

I prefer such stories but too each their own.
 
I'm surprised that some people seem to think that there are not stories out in our forums which do not fit the criterion of 90% backdrop and 10% sex. And, as seems to happen most of the time, arguments seem to be flying that have nothing to do with the original point...

Yes, great story is great. Certainly, a great story entertains, and that helps everyone on the road to what might be a great sex scene or two. That sort of writing is certainly apropos.

For the most part, I'm not really speaking to the people who do that well. I mean, there is a difference between Anais Nin and Herman Melville, yes? Both write wonderful descriptions, but only one is sexual (to most of us, that is--I'm sure plenty of people have had fantasies of being pummeled by Billy Budd, but that's for another post...)

If it's "See Dick. See Jane. See Dick's quilt, the way its folds are perfectly neat and how it sits quiety on the closet shelf. See the pattern of the unused quilt, its intermingling patchwork and its overall weight, a quilt that has covered many a lover... See Jane's greenhouse and note how the lush of the green provides a scenic backdrop to flashes of color: green, red, purple, yellow... Oh, right, and they have sex in a rented hotel room in another town... But Jane truly loves her plants, and that quilt sure does have a history..."

This is the kind of point-missing I'm trying to lament. Overall, taste will guide the author, and, sure, the good wank for many is one in which the intellect is stroked along with any given organ, but, again, I'm just trying to mention that we should remember the point.

And, again, my point is this: If you put pages of description into city streets, trees, wall art, and office politics, only to provide four or five simple clauses to any sexual contact or content, you've missed the point, unless your point is merely to tease the reader. That's it.

If it doesn't apply to you, relax. If it does, and you think you've found something special that will revolutionize erotica, please help me understand what the hell you're doing.

Thanks.
 
sack_lunches said:
I'm surprised that some people seem to think that there are not stories out in our forums which do not fit the criterion of 90% backdrop and 10% sex. And, as seems to happen most of the time, arguments seem to be flying that have nothing to do with the original point...

Again, how do you define "sex scenes"? How do you define "10% sex"? What would fit into being "sex"? And ... Why can't the backdrop be a part of the "sex"?

To be honest, I don't think I could find a story on Lit as you described. On the contrary, most seem to only be a scene filled with sex.


Pookie :rose:
 
Well, 'most' ARE filled with sex.

Eh, I think this whole thing started in my mind because, a couple of weeks ago, I started looking around for some well-written adult stuff. I like to stick to the new stuff, and, while I have certain favorites amongst the local literati, it's always nice to discover something totally fresh.

For three days I searched, and either I found stuff that really wasn't too good (yes, it's out there), or I found well-written stuff without much sexual content. It irritated me, and I'd hate to go through that again. I really don't want to be more specific, but it does happen on Literotica, and I guess I posted my thread here so that the people who write well can keep from falling into the trap.

I think I'm finished with this thread. I hope it made someone think, and not just that I am an ass...
 
I kiked down the dor ..................

Originally posted by sack_lunches My question concerns 'literature' v. 'wank material.'

My stuff suffers from no dichotomy. It's smut and purely meant to be read with one hand. I'm not good enough to make any pretense to literariality.
MG
 
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Re: Re: Erotico-Literary Theory

MathGirl said:
My stuff suffers from no dichotomy. It's purely meant to be read with one hand.
MG

So that's why I like your work. I did wonder.

Og.
 
sack_lunches said:
For three days I searched, and either I found stuff that really wasn't too good (yes, it's out there), or I found well-written stuff without much sexual content. It irritated me, and I'd hate to go through that again. I really don't want to be more specific, but it does happen on Literotica, and I guess I posted my thread here so that the people who write well can keep from falling into the trap.

First let me say welcome to the Hangout and I hope you come here often.

You know the thing I like most about Lit is that the site is able to encompass so many approaches to erotica. Just about every form of the genre is represented and there truly is something for everyone.

Having read (and enjoyed) stories from just about everyone who's posted to this thread, I can tell you that even with this small sample you've gathered a wide variety of styles and approches to sexual content in stories. I think that's great. Wouldn't it be boring if we all wrote the same type of story?

I'm sorry that you feel so many of us fall short of your definition of erotica. But the important thing to consider here is that it is your definition, and while that's certainly valid for you, it doesn't necessarily mean it's right for everyone.

For the most part I believe the authors here write stories that appeal to them, the type of work that they want to read and turns them on. So when you say we're doing it wrong, you're doing more than criticizing our writing skills, you're also commenting on our sexuality. I'm sure that was never your intent, but it's still part of the issue.

Sexual content is important to erotica, but how much and where it occurs can be a very personal choice for readers and writers.
Lit is such a huge site, there are so many types of people who read here and they have such a broad range of tastes that just about anyone could write just about anything and still appeal to someone.

I think I understand what you were trying to say. You'd like to see more stories, regardless of length, that deal entirely with erotic content and don't deviate with what the weather was like and how much the bill at the restaurant was unless a spin could be put on how the storm outside preceeded the storm in the bed or the cost of the meal made a motel impossible--and that's fine. Those kind of stories are great and I like them myself and would be happy to see a lot more of them on the site.

But at the same time, I wouldn't want to see only those. I really believe there's room here for all kinds of stories, even those that aren't to my personal taste.

Jayne
 
Hmmmmmm

Never thought of the percentage thing before, so many percent sex and so many percent love story or whatever.

Ha, new twist on it all.

Most of the crap I write is aimed at the target audience.
Porn site audience = mainly red neck wank merchants reading the stuff.

Can't honestly see anyone coming here looking for Harry Potter, Mills and Boone or cookery books. I may be wrong of course.

I suppose my stories really only ever contain one sex scene in the whole thing, loads of build up, not too much pleasant scenery, good hard dirty fucking session, then the finale of some sort which usually sounds more like an epilogue.

Good points raised in plces though folks.

pops...............
:D :D
 
sack_lunches said:
Well, 'most' ARE filled with sex.

Eh, I think this whole thing started in my mind because, a couple of weeks ago, I started looking around for some well-written adult stuff. I like to stick to the new stuff, and, while I have certain favorites amongst the local literati, it's always nice to discover something totally fresh.

For three days I searched, and either I found stuff that really wasn't too good (yes, it's out there), or I found well-written stuff without much sexual content. It irritated me, and I'd hate to go through that again. I really don't want to be more specific, but it does happen on Literotica, and I guess I posted my thread here so that the people who write well can keep from falling into the trap.

I think I'm finished with this thread. I hope it made someone think, and not just that I am an ass...

I wasn't trying to be confrontational, I don't think. LOL My intent wasn't meant to put you off either. I don't get to read nearly as much as I used to. I imagine there are such stories out there as well. I just have not seen them, but again I don't have that much time for reading. I still owe a few authors here a read (Octavian, please forgive me for not having read your new chapter yet!!).

I did want to respond more to those mentioning styles or formats more than anything. I strongly believe in plot and character development. That's just my preference when it comes to reading or writing erotica. I prefer stories that take time to develop. But I do like my sex. ;) I don't mean to put down "wank" stories either by stating my preference. There are some excellent writers that make an art out of writing "stroke" stories that I very much enjoy reading.

You made a reply in another thread about not making friends easily here. I hope you were not referring to me. ;) Just because I don't always agree with someone, doesn't mean I don't consider them a friend. I seem to always have something to disagree about with just about everyone. ;)

Pookie :rose:
 
Re: Hmmmmmm

pop_54 said:

Can't honestly see anyone coming here looking for Harry Potter, Mills and Boone or cookery books. I may be wrong of course.

pops...............
:D :D

I wondered what I was doing wrong. I ended one story with a recipe and got PMs saying that it works brilliantly but is fattening.

Who is Harry Potter?

Mills and Boon do a "Sensation" series which I sell to horny old ladies. Some of that series would do well on Literotica except for length. If only I could turn out the stuff as some Mills and Boon authors do, I would be earning real money from my writing.

Oh well.

Og
 
Confrontational? "Who the fuck in confrontational? Not Me, nuh uh no way shape or form. Are you snickering at Me? Why I oughta come through your computer and rip your silly little wanking only wanting head off. Jesus read My friggin sig line. I am not confrontational I am just blunt to the point and if you don't like it well then "FUCK YOU!"

Hehe, now really, I didn't mean to come off that way. Maybe I am brash and just not thoughtful all the time when I post. Ok rarely do I think, I just type. Impulse typing is baaad.

I am only joking and as it has been well stated I guess you'll just have to keep on searching because there is believe it or not a happy medium out there for you. Just the right amount of sex with a story.

Besides, the one thing I noticed is you didn't let us know what jaundre you are looking through. It could be that such as incest there is either way to much plot, or stupid people writing bad wanking stories. Typically that is what comes out in that area My own work included. There are only so many twists you can make. I read the most horrid story this morning and for only the second time ever I was forced to give a one and not send feedback. I may have to go back and send that person some sort of feedback but by the end of the story, and I really hoped this person would stop using the same phrase like three hundred times, I was so mad at the author and thought it was so just thrown together that I oned them.

Now maybe if you did that and sent feedback to some of the authors who make those mistakes it would either help them improve or it could make them give up completely or they could careless and continue on their way posting crap.

Whoa that was a little rant. LOL. I really hate to say this but your best effort is just to search and/or stick with the authors you already are fond of. I know that's what I do.

Once again if I seemed confrontational sorry never meant to be that way. Have a nice day.:D
 
This site is called Literotica

I think the site's name should give a clue.

Literotica to me implies that there should be some literary merit to the erotica.

Almost all the authors that post in the Author's Hangout actually produce literary (or at least literate) erotica.

That statement should annoy somebody.

Even DurtGurl's masterpieces have literary merit because they brilliantly parody some of the erotica on the net.

How much of the story should be erotic varies from author to author. Given the range of human sexuality stories that are erotic to some will not appeal to others. That does not mean the story is not erotic. Voting against a story because you don't swing that way is unfair.

Og.
 
I personally think Laurel should start raising her standards slightly. This will probably get all sorts of abuse from several quarters, but I think there is a hell of a lot of dross on this site. A hell of a lot of 'See Jane, See Jane's Cup size, fuck Jane' (Thanks for that Otus, I get the feeling that'll develop alongside Harold's Tab A into Slot B as one of my favourite quotes). There are more than enough stories here which are more than just 'I had a spare five minutes and was horny' and the would still be viable (and a hell of a lot more condensed quality) if there was a vetting system.

Anyway, enough about my pet peeves, onto the actual topic of the thread. I think that stories which are just sex with no plot are a waste of time. You may as well just get a picture of a naked lady. The plot should add something to the eroticism.

There is actually a story on Lit which is spread over 3 chapters so far and there is minimal sex. I think there is one sex scene right at the beginning and a short dream sex scene and that's it. And it is more erotic than tons of the stuff that's on here because of the way it's written. Sadly I think the author has written herself into a corner and the plot may never be resolved, but the story so far has been worth the lack of sex. It could be classed as non-erotic, but that's missing the sexual tension that builds all the way through.

At least that's what I think.

The Earl
 
And another thing!

Nah, you've all made me feel welcome, except that Vassago guy and the Earl. I'm actually afraid to read the hypnosis stuff, because I'm concerned that someone implant a suggestion through the story, and I'll awaken broke, cold, and with my cock in a strange goat.

Come to think of it, maybe I'm already out of danger...

Well, I'm happy this thread generated some good discussion. I still contend that I never had anything bad to say about plot or stories with more than just sex scenes, per se, but I give up.

Happy writing, everyone. You all produce lovely stuff.
 
Welcome! Better? :D

I'm not nasty. Just opinionated. And loud. Let's not forget loud.

The Earl
 
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