erased thread part ii

[SimonDoom]

I'm out!

Is that a promise? Or just a tease?

 

[ruddygore]

So this post isn't really complaining, just an interesting and disturbing observation.

I have recently published a chapter I was worried about (CC 16) wrapping up an area of the plot I've had stewing in my brain for 4 months. It appears I'm a dreadfully slow writer. Anyways, the hate comments resurged. Our notorious repeat offender, Whackdoodle, commented on it the day it was released. He didn't say much: just dubbed the book "torture porn" and told me "go to therapy"

even though I've been in and out of therapy since I was 9, and my own psychological struggles have nothing to do with the story. The more interesting comment was from Anonymous, this time.

Apparently, all of my characters are morally bankrupt. Anonymous also calls what happened "torture" (there's no torture in the story: no waterboarding, no blaring loud music, no mutilation, no maiming, no burning, no finger-peeling, no skin-rack, no boulder crushing with Matty screaming for "more weight!", none of that stuff). He calls the character subjected to the harshest treatment in this chapter Brandon even though his name is Brendan

but that's sort of immaterial. But I've finally made them violently angry again! Anonymous implies Brendan would more realistically have committed a mass shooting after what happened to him. So, this vocal but tiny slice of the readership is fantasizing about revenge, as if Brendan is the main character (he isn't) and revenge is his to take (it's not). What actually happens in the chapter is: Brendan gets stockaded and force-fucked as punishment for coming within an inch of sexually assaulting another character named Matty. This is Eleanor, Matty's girlfriend's, idea: really refuting this idea that my femdom characters care very little about their submissives. This was completely lost on my haters. They don't say a single thing about her, and she's actually the main character of the book with the most POV sections. She's the mouthpiece of my themes and the central figure; readers are meant to glean what they can from the relationship dynamics from her eyes and mind. Instead, they empathize with the unambiguously male perpetrator as he's punished–not Eleanor and Matty, the protected victim in the actual content of the book.

See the double standard yet? These people only care when a man is subjected to harsh treatment. DO NOT accuse me of disparaging readers when I say that; it's literally just an accurate summation of their point of view on life and words. They go as far as to wish death on the other characters–it's safe to assume they wouldn't have cared if Matty had actually been r-worded by Brendan.

So, why do I write like this at all? To expose this. These readers ARE Brendan, and Brendan is them, and Brendan got what he deserved. You see, this is where I give the game away: Cuckold Camp is already a revenge story. Only, it's an inversion of the BTB convention. It's a revenge story against the cucks. Revenge is already playing out on the page; they're not going to have some grand revolt when they're already being revolted against.

For those who care or also find this interesting, I'm open to discussing this granular-seeming issue of the double-standard logic applied by the hate commenters. I think it reveals a lot.

I vaguely remember reading the first two chapter of this and now this chapter. All I got from it was you feel that men are worms that deserve anything that happens to them. This has the same problem as the BTB stories and a lot of others. It's treating other people as things instead of people. To my mind, anytime you are treating others as things is comes close to, if not actually qualifying as torture.

Also, if the goal of torture is to break someone, mental torture can be every bit as effective as physical torture.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

I understand that some people feel this way, but I do not. It's up to the Site to enforce its content rules. If they let something slip, it's fine with me. I feel no obligation to report nonconforming stories. I don't think I ever have reported a story and I doubt I ever will.

That's a perfectly fine way to feel, but the site literally has written something to the effect "If you see something that breaks our terms and conditions, please report it."

Of course, you aren't required to do anything of the sort... just like you aren't required to return your shopping cart to the appropriate location. It's a helpful thing you can do, only if you so choose.

 

[SimonDoom]

That's a perfectly fine way to feel, but the site literally has written something to the effect "If you see something that breaks our terms and conditions, please report it."

Of course, you aren't required to do anything of the sort... just like you aren't required to return your shopping cart to the appropriate location. It's a helpful thing you can do, only if you so choose.

For the record, I always return my shopping cart to the appropriate location. If I don't, I'm inconveniencing others. I don't see that analogy applying here. Nobody is inconvenienced here. There is always the effortless option not to read something one doesn't like.

 

[MediocreAuthor]

For the record, I always return my shopping cart to the appropriate location. If I don't, I'm inconveniencing others. I don't see that analogy applying here. Nobody is inconvenienced here. There is always the effortless option not to read something one doesn't like.

In this case, you would only be reporting things to assist Laurel. She's asked you to report things, but of course, you are not required to do so.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

In this case, you would only be reporting things to assist Laurel. She's asked you to report things, but of course, you are not required to do so.

I have a feeling that Simon's approach is making her happy.

 

[ElectricBlue]

For the record, I always return my shopping cart to the appropriate location. If I don't, I'm inconveniencing others. I don't see that analogy applying here. Nobody is inconvenienced here. There is always the effortless option not to read something one doesn't like.

I see it as a community self-policing itself, helping set communal standards.

You see it as freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I see it as cleaning the dog shit of the lawn and choosing to live in a nice neighbourhood.

Carry on .

 

[KeithD]

I'm somewhere half way between SD and others on the reporting issue. Not reading much here pretty much obviates the choice of reporting or not, but if I thought the posting rules here were being flaunted in the extreme, I'd report. Otherwise, I'd leave it as not my business to police what others want to write/read that the site will tolerate as long as they don't try to censure me/my readers. I'd just disengage and walk away.

 

[SimonDoom]

I see it as a community self-policing itself, helping set communal standards.

You see it as freedom of speech and freedom of choice. I see it as cleaning the dog shit of the lawn and choosing to live in a nice neighbourhood.

Carry on .

I think if you have strong feelings about the content, you should feel free to report it to the Site. I don't have strong feelings. It's as much a matter of taste as of principle. I think about all the movies my kids can see that have content that this site prohibits so I don't have strong feelings if stuff somehow gets through.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think if you have strong feelings about the content, you should feel free to report it to the Site. I don't have strong feelings. It's as much a matter of taste as of principle. I think about all the movies my kids can see that have content that this site prohibits so I don't have strong feelings if stuff somehow gets through.

What would you do if you saw a blatant push against the age rule?

I've only reported a couple of stories, where the description was blatantly sexualising a "young teenager" as a very young teenager or pre-pubescent child. There's a difference in my mind between a sixteen year old being aged up and they're eighteen for a story (i suspect we've all done that), versus an "eighteen year old" being written four or five years younger. That's why the age disclaimer some people use is bollocks - it's how the character is written that matters.

Most of the discussion about reporting seems to be in the context of non-con and rape, whereas (as we all know), most of the "Will this fly?" queries that arise in the AH are about the age rule. That's an interesting dichotomy in itself, when you ponder on it.

 

[SimonDoom]

What would you do if you saw a blatant push against the age rule?

I have yet to see that at Literotica (but I've seen it at other sites). To me, a blatant push against the age rule would be the description of clearly sexual behavior with a young teenager. What I see is a) quick references or reminisces about pre-18 conduct (e.g., "I saw my sister in the shower when I was 15"); b) stretching the believability of whether a character is 18 or over (but still possibly around 16 or so). I have yet to see something that truly qualifies as "pedophilia" at Literotica. I don't find stories about young people who seem to be 16 offensive and I would never report them.

 

[Bamagan]

What would you do if you saw a blatant push against the age rule?

I've only reported a couple of stories, where the description was blatantly sexualising a "young teenager" as a very young teenager or pre-pubescent child. There's a difference in my mind between a sixteen year old being aged up and they're eighteen for a story (i suspect we've all done that), versus an "eighteen year old" being written four or five years younger. That's why the age disclaimer some people use is bollocks - it's how the character is written that matters.

Most of the discussion about reporting seems to be in the context of non-con and rape, whereas (as we all know), most of the "Will this fly?" queries that arise in the AH are about the age rule. That's an interesting dichotomy in itself, when you ponder on it.

In my case, I probably wouldn't be concerned if it was a story about two not-really-eighteens having sex with each other. But if it was someone stretching May-December to February-December, I might report it.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I have yet to see that at Literotica (but I've seen it at other sites). To me, a blatant push against the age rule would be the description of clearly sexual behavior with a young teenager. What I see is a) quick references or reminisces about pre-18 conduct (e.g., "I saw my sister in the shower when I was 15"); b) stretching the believability of whether a character is 18 or over (but still possibly around 16 or so). I have yet to see something that truly qualifies as "pedophilia" at Literotica. I don't find stories about young people who seem to be 16 offensive and I would never report them.

The ones I saw were older stories, where the girl was portrayed as very young, barely a teenager, and the context was predatory.

They stayed down, too, which means the author was long gone from the site, or they couldn't be bothered doing a fix or arguing their case.

It's like the AH, "Will this fly?" stuff. There's usually a pretty quick chorus, "You need to find another site," versus, "No, that one-liner sentence is fine." It's like pornography, you know it when you see it.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

I have yet to see that at Literotica (but I've seen it at other sites).

Behold the result of my (admittedly) quick search: Shelly's Secret!

Featuring the proverbial "eighteen-year-old" who's four feet tall, JUST started puberty, doesn't really know how to masturbate yet, and, when caught with a naughty magazine, explains that he just wanted to know what "the older boys at school were talking about".
Because, at eighteen, there are SO MANY older kids at your high school...

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Behold the result of my (admittedly) quick search: Shelly's Secret!

Featuring the proverbial "eighteen-year-old" who's four feet tall, JUST started puberty, doesn't really know how to masturbate yet, and, when caught with a naughty magazine, explains that he just wanted to know what "the older boys at school were talking about".
Because, at eighteen, there are SO MANY older kids at your high school...

I can bet my ass that somebody reported that story in the 5 years since the publishing, yet it is still up. What a shocker. And there are stories far worse than that one, believe me.

 

[SimonDoom]

Behold the result of my (admittedly) quick search: Shelly's Secret!

Featuring the proverbial "eighteen-year-old" who's four feet tall, JUST started puberty, doesn't really know how to masturbate yet, and, when caught with a naughty magazine, explains that he just wanted to know what "the older boys at school were talking about".
Because, at eighteen, there are SO MANY older kids at your high school...

That's exactly the sort of thing I don't care about.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

What the hell? I don't even wanna know what you're alluding to.

I don't blame you
I am alluding that Laurel probably doesn't care that much about stories that break Lit's rules. There are too many that break them, one way or another, and many have been reported even to our own knowledge but without much result. So yeah, it's either that she likes the extra number of visits that such stories bring, or she doesn't want to deal with all the work related to checking such stories before she can take them down.
Lit is a great place, but there are so many things about the way Lit works that are fucked up, and most of those are at our own expense

 

[alohadave]

Behold the result of my (admittedly) quick search: Shelly's Secret!

Featuring the proverbial "eighteen-year-old" who's four feet tall, JUST started puberty, doesn't really know how to masturbate yet, and, when caught with a naughty magazine, explains that he just wanted to know what "the older boys at school were talking about".
Because, at eighteen, there are SO MANY older kids at your high school...

That's when you make it a finishing school. After high school, before college.

 

[Winter_Fare]

Either way, my chapter has been taken down as of 5 hours ago. Supposedly the nonconsent rule was broken. I could rewrite in Brendan's POV or just leave it out of the site.

Does anyone know if chapters still count with one missing?

All the metadata is saved, when you edit and resubmit it should slot in just as before. I had a similar thing happen with one of my series.

 

[OverconfidentSarcasm]

I am alluding that Laurel probably doesn't care that much about stories that break Lit's rules. There are too many that break them, one way or another, and many have been reported even to our own knowledge but without much result. So yeah, it's either that she likes the extra number of visits that such stories bring, or she doesn't want to deal with all the work related to checking such stories before she can take them down.
Lit is a great place, but there are so many things about the way Lit works that are fucked up, and most of those are at our own expense

Yes. I truly believe OP's story would not have been taken down if it wasn't for the increased amount of abuse reports that, in turn, were a direct result of OP whining on the forum.

Actually, I'm pretty certain OP doesn't even need to rewrite anything. We've seen this happening multiple times this year alone. Just appeal to the removal by explaining why the author THINKS it isn't non-con, and the story will be reinstated.

The "rules" are only in place so, if they ever find themselves confronted with a legal letter, they can just point at the rules and say "Hey, not our fault. The USER broke our rules!".

 

[Djmac1031]

Edit. I think my comment was cross referencing a different thread.

 

[Gamblnluck]

So this post isn't really complaining, just an interesting and disturbing observation.

I have recently published a chapter I was worried about (CC 16) wrapping up an area of the plot I've had stewing in my brain for 4 months. It appears I'm a dreadfully slow writer. Anyways, the hate comments resurged. Our notorious repeat offender, Whackdoodle, commented on it the day it was released. He didn't say much: just dubbed the book "torture porn" and told me "go to therapy"

even though I've been in and out of therapy since I was 9, and my own psychological struggles have nothing to do with the story. The more interesting comment was from Anonymous, this time.

Apparently, all of my characters are morally bankrupt. Anonymous also calls what happened "torture" (there's no torture in the story: no waterboarding, no blaring loud music, no mutilation, no maiming, no burning, no finger-peeling, no skin-rack, no boulder crushing with Matty screaming for "more weight!", none of that stuff). He calls the character subjected to the harshest treatment in this chapter Brandon even though his name is Brendan

but that's sort of immaterial. But I've finally made them violently angry again! Anonymous implies Brendan would more realistically have committed a mass shooting after what happened to him. So, this vocal but tiny slice of the readership is fantasizing about revenge, as if Brendan is the main character (he isn't) and revenge is his to take (it's not). What actually happens in the chapter is: Brendan gets stockaded and force-fucked as punishment for coming within an inch of sexually assaulting another character named Matty. This is Eleanor, Matty's girlfriend's, idea: really refuting this idea that my femdom characters care very little about their submissives. This was completely lost on my haters. They don't say a single thing about her, and she's actually the main character of the book with the most POV sections. She's the mouthpiece of my themes and the central figure; readers are meant to glean what they can from the relationship dynamics from her eyes and mind. Instead, they empathize with the unambiguously male perpetrator as he's punished–not Eleanor and Matty, the protected victim in the actual content of the book.

See the double standard yet? These people only care when a man is subjected to harsh treatment. DO NOT accuse me of disparaging readers when I say that; it's literally just an accurate summation of their point of view on life and words. They go as far as to wish death on the other characters–it's safe to assume they wouldn't have cared if Matty had actually been r-worded by Brendan.

So, why do I write like this at all? To expose this. These readers ARE Brendan, and Brendan is them, and Brendan got what he deserved. You see, this is where I give the game away: Cuckold Camp is already a revenge story. Only, it's an inversion of the BTB convention. It's a revenge story against the cucks. Revenge is already playing out on the page; they're not going to have some grand revolt when they're already being revolted against.

For those who care or also find this interesting, I'm open to discussing this granular-seeming issue of the double-standard logic applied by the hate commenters. I think it reveals a lot.

I read that series or most of it. It is well written but some of the content is not 'my cup of tea'. I don't like the big cocked black men scenario. I give you credit though. Most of your women were not the ideal young sexpots either. They were all morally decrepit for the most part with the occasional 'good side' like you described with Eleanor. But they way I read Eleanor was more enthralled with Matty's love for her no matter what she did than anything else. You did described some morally deficient people. None of them are worth a damn.
I've done that is a few of my stories as well.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I find it kinda funny that the original point of this post was to express how fucked up I think it is that when my self-insert character gets sexually harassed, nobody has a discernible problem with it, but when the unambiguously male harasser gets forcefully fucked, that's where their problems start–but nobody replying to the thread has addressed that aside from commiserating with said commenters. In fact, their response is only to report the chapter. It has me going... the fuck?

Actually there is one thing missing in your story. Unless I missed it, the characters are all being held against their will. Yes, they agreed at the beginning, but it is questionable if they'd stay if offered the choice. Your character Brenden did come to enjoy his rap, held for 20 plus hours in strict bondage unable to move was a bit much. The characters are almost all either brutally sadistic to the point of criminality or totally masochistic to the point of being willing to be destroyed.
One thing that has been asked of me several times, is there hope for the character. I see LOT of stories where the character is eventually destroyed, physically, mentally, emotionally and financially.
I had many readers with my story of slavery "My Mother Owns Me" tell me what the character would do and how I was painting myself into a corner with my plot. I'd already done the ending and had to figure a way to get there.
That story also dove-tailed with 2 other of my series.
My point is, many readers love to see the bad guys lose but they also like to see the MC have an escape ith a chance of a future..

 

[NoTalentHack]

It's making it a lot better, I think. Maybe even NTH will approve–if the POV doesn't confuse him.

Well, if it does, I’ll be in good company with the site moderator, I guess. They clearly didn’t get it either, since your story got pulled until you revised it, right?

That’s the problem with third person close from multiple viewpoints: in the hands of an inartful writer, it’s hard to tell that it’s third person close, looking a lot more like badly written third person omniscient. But you’ll get there eventually.