Equality and STEM

[GiaCat]

Liberals have a very simplistic view of the world in general. They look through the lens of sexism and blame all male/female imbalances for it

The truth is: Girls are just not as interested in tech as boys. At least when it comes to getting under the covers as seeing how things work. Girls love to use tech to communicate.

I have a Master degree in Software Engineering. In most of my classes, I was the only women. No one tried to stop me from attending class. There was no Patriarchy police barring the door. It's just so ridiculous.


Here are some good detailed stats on tech degrees. What I find interesting is the % number of women getting tech degrees has been in decline for decades despite social advances. That pretty much blows the gender oppression argument out the window.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp

 

[BotanyBoy]

Absolutely no surprises, starting with the idea that I hate masculinity and working downwards ... and you wonder why I can't be arsed engaging in any debate with you?

You've openly associated general shit-bag behavior and violence against women with masculinity numerous times in this thread and a great many more times in other threads for some time.

You can lie to yourself all you want, I doubt anyone other than Candida will be buying though.

 

[KimGordon67]

You've openly associated general shit-bag behavior and violence against women with masculinity numerous times in this thread and a great many more times in other threads for some time.

You can lie to yourself all you want, I doubt anyone other than Candida will be buying though.

With TOXIC masculinity/HEGEMONIC masculinity ... I understand you have problems discerning how that's not the same as 'masculinity' per se, even when demonstrated using a clear-as-day burger analogy, but you're just plain wrong. Like, wrong.

 

[Que]

So in a given situation if the person in charge has a dick that's oppression but if the person in charge doesn't have a dick and openly and actively brags about recruiting promoting and empowering specifically women that's totally okay.

With this whole US versus them mentality I'm glad that in general women don't work hard enough to rise to the top. It would be an absolute disaster if they ever got the sort of power that they pretend men have.

If your fictional word world of hegemonic masculinity exists why did men give women the right to vote in the first place why did men hire and promote women. Why do men staff HR departments with women why do men staff admissions Department with women?

Seems to me that that would make it a little harder to give the good old boys the good old boy network hook up.

 

[BotanyBoy]

With TOXIC masculinity/HEGEMONIC masculinity ...

Most people just consider "toxic" behavior just being an asshole, especially considering it's not specific to men.

Hegemony has nothing to do with being a piece of shit either.

I understand you have problems discerning how that's not the same as 'masculinity' per se, even when demonstrated using a clear-as-day burger analogy, but you're just plain wrong. Like, wrong.

So then why do you ALWAYS associate being a piece of shit with masculinity?

Let me guess, you could totally explain how I'm wrong, but you won't just like always.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

Liberals have a very simplistic view of the world in general. They look through the lens of sexism and blame all male/female imbalances for it

But you got the Mars/Venus thingy all figured out, eh, Gia? There's no pulling the natty wool blanket over your eagle eyes! As to be expected from a joosy yung red-blooded Murrican woman who has her index finger firmly on the staccato pulse of her generation!

https://media1.tenor.com/images/945f14a730e628c931af2662790b74b5/tenor.gif?itemid=9111633

However, as they say, the game is to be sold, not to be told. Don't spread your peanut butter and jelly on this moldy bread site for free, write a book about your wisdom over these matters...I'll design the jacket and handle the advertising, we'll split the diff. Let's make a mint and collect some Rowling bank by fleecing these gullible liberal AND conservative sexually convoluted motherfuckers! What say ye?

 

[KimGordon67]

Most people just consider "toxic" behavior just being an asshole, especially considering it's not specific to men.

Hegemony has nothing to do with being a piece of shit either.




So then why do you ALWAYS associate being a piece of shit with masculinity?

Let me guess, you could totally explain how I'm wrong, but you won't just like always.

Blah blah blah circular and often tautological argument blah blah blah either willfully or ignorantly missing 9/10 of the point blah blah blah cherry picking specific words and ignoring entire context blah blah blah refusing to engage with actual statistics blah blah blah over generalising blah blah blah.

Did I miss anything?

 

[KimGordon67]

So in a given situation if the person in charge has a dick that's oppression but if the person in charge doesn't have a dick and openly and actively brags about recruiting promoting and empowering specifically women that's totally okay.

With this whole US versus them mentality I'm glad that in general women don't work hard enough to rise to the top. It would be an absolute disaster if they ever got the sort of power that they pretend men have.

If your fictional word world of hegemonic masculinity exists why did men give women the right to vote in the first place why did men hire and promote women. Why do men staff HR departments with women why do men staff admissions Department with women?

Seems to me that that would make it a little harder to give the good old boys the good old boy network hook up.

Of course, feminism clearly proves that there was no need for feminism, because if we REALLY needed feminism, men wouldn't have allowed it to happen. Etc.

*eyeroll*

And obviously no woman is ever actually more qualified than a man to do a job (except for those in the industries dominated by women ... but even then, men are probably actually BETTER at those jobs, they just 'choose' to not do them because they're not as well paid). The only reason women ever get appointed over men is because of feminazis. I'm not quite sure how we originally infiltrated the system in order to wrongfully promote our sisters ... I guess using sex?

*more eyeroll*

 

[KimGordon67]

Liberals have a very simplistic view of the world in general. They look through the lens of sexism and blame all male/female imbalances for it

The truth is: Girls are just not as interested in tech as boys. At least when it comes to getting under the covers as seeing how things work. Girls love to use tech to communicate.

I have a Master degree in Software Engineering. In most of my classes, I was the only women. No one tried to stop me from attending class. There was no Patriarchy police barring the door. It's just so ridiculous.


Here are some good detailed stats on tech degrees. What I find interesting is the % number of women getting tech degrees has been in decline for decades despite social advances. That pretty much blows the gender oppression argument out the window.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp

Potentially one of the most simplistic statements about gender disparities I've read ... well, not in a while, because of Bot and Que, but at least in the last five minutes.

 

[KimGordon67]

The most ironic thing about this is that I'm having another argument on another site with a bunch of people who also say that masculinity and femininity are fundamentally based in biology, and that masculinity can't really be changed because biology, and that gender is fundamentally defined by biological sex, not social construction.

Wanna guess how that bunch of people identify politically?

 

[toeskr]

"The most ironic thing about this is that I'm having another argument"

Sorry Kim but that is pretty all you do and have done for quite a while.

It's not really ironic anymore it's pretty much your whole agenda. You have even become so lazy you don't even cite, you just expect everyone to take your word on it.

 

[Hal9000_]

Nerds.

(Ultra toxic masculine avatar for reference)

https://media.giphy.com/media/xcoMBnFZ879eg/giphy-facebook_s.jpg

 

[KimGordon67]

"The most ironic thing about this is that I'm having another argument"

Sorry Kim but that is pretty all you do and have done for quite a while.

It's not really ironic anymore it's pretty much your whole agenda. You have even become so lazy you don't even cite, you just expect everyone to take your word on it.

I'm sorry you missed the c3082 times I explained why I've stopped linking evidence to support statements.

 

[bellisarius]

Liberals have a very simplistic view of the world in general. They look through the lens of sexism and blame all male/female imbalances for it

The truth is: Girls are just not as interested in tech as boys. At least when it comes to getting under the covers as seeing how things work. Girls love to use tech to communicate.

I have a Master degree in Software Engineering. In most of my classes, I was the only women. No one tried to stop me from attending class. There was no Patriarchy police barring the door. It's just so ridiculous.


Here are some good detailed stats on tech degrees. What I find interesting is the % number of women getting tech degrees has been in decline for decades despite social advances. That pretty much blows the gender oppression argument out the window.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp

If you feel up to it post the same info for the medical field (MD, PA, and/or RN).

 

[toeskr]

I'm sorry you missed the c3082 times I explained why I've stopped linking evidence to support statements.

I'm sorry that your whole existence is dependent upon just arguing. Doesn't matter with who or what about.

You should start a fetish thread about this.

 

[SpeareChucker]

Evolution of an argument:

What are you talking about, who is that? What does he have to say?
Oh, I know that type, therefore, I don't need to know about him specifically so I can discount him based on the 'type.'
Oh, I know all about this topic! Let me tell you where you are wrong!
I knew about that guy the whole time, but you know nothing of the topic!

I NEVER SAID THAT!

Here's what I said!

WHY WOULD I SAY THAT?

Here's what I said. Here's what I think you said (I didn't really read it for content, because you're one of the type too!).

IF I SAID THAT, I WOULD BE WRONG! I NEVER SAID THAT! That means you are wrong!

Don't put words into my mouth! I didn't put words in your, or his mouth! I just know how your type thinks which allows me to lecture you on how wrong you are!

I NEVER SAID THAT! Why can't you just 'get it' and admit that I was right from the very beginning!

WHY WOULD I SAY THAT??? I knew who he was all along...

One of a type; like you!

 

[beew]

Liberals have a very simplistic view of the world in general. They look through the lens of sexism and blame all male/female imbalances for it

The truth is: Girls are just not as interested in tech as boys. At least when it comes to getting under the covers as seeing how things work. Girls love to use tech to communicate.

I have a Master degree in Software Engineering. In most of my classes, I was the only women. No one tried to stop me from attending class. There was no Patriarchy police barring the door. It's just so ridiculous.


Here are some good detailed stats on tech degrees. What I find interesting is the % number of women getting tech degrees has been in decline for decades despite social advances. That pretty much blows the gender oppression argument out the window.

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d12/tables/dt12_349.asp

It's a weird one.

If you look at ex-communist European countries, the nomber of women going into traditional male jobs like math/computer sciences or Engineering was progressively increasing since Communism took over.
Whereas in Western countries – it’s steadily decreasing.

Despite their numerous other flaws, I always felt that gender equality was more authentically tackled in ex-communist (Eastern or Central Europe) than in Anglo-Saxon countries. Western modern Feminists make a lot of noise and talk a lot about women’s rights, but I get the weird vibe that on a subconscious level, they feel that women are the inferior sex.

 

[HisArpy]

Absolutely no surprises, starting with the idea that I hate masculinity and working downwards ... and you wonder why I can't be arsed engaging in any debate with you?

Yet here we are 11 pages of mostly you "debating" Botanyboy.

 

[bellisarius]

It's a weird one.

If you look at ex-communist European countries, the nomber of women going into traditional male jobs like math/computer sciences or Engineering was progressively increasing since Communism took over.
Whereas in Western countries – it’s steadily decreasing.

Despite their numerous other flaws, I always felt that gender equality was more authentically tackled in ex-communist (Eastern or Central Europe) than in Anglo-Saxon countries. Western modern Feminists make a lot of noise and talk a lot about women’s rights, but I get the weird vibe that on a subconscious level, they feel that women are the inferior sex.

Go back and read the article again. Damn, what is so hard to understand about this?

 

[HisArpy]

Go back and read the article again. Damn, what is so hard to understand about this?

The one sentence that would "spell it out" is missing. Thus, they miss the details while searching for the devil.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Blah blah blah circular and often tautological argument blah blah blah either willfully or ignorantly missing 9/10 of the point blah blah blah cherry picking specific words and ignoring entire context blah blah blah refusing to engage with actual statistics blah blah blah over generalising blah blah blah.

Did I miss anything?

Yea, the part where you back up your bullshit and trash biology/psychology as sciences in their near entirety.

It's ok, NOBODY is holding their breaths.

The most ironic thing about this is that I'm having another argument on another site with a bunch of people who also say that masculinity and femininity are fundamentally based in biology, and that masculinity can't really be changed because biology, and that gender is fundamentally defined by biological sex, not social construction.

Wanna guess how that bunch of people identify politically?

Probably a wide range, it's only the hard left SJW's/feminist and fundi-religious loons on the right that pretend everything is a social construction and biology/psychology is bullshit.

The rest of us in between the two crazy camps generally accept that testosterone, estrogen and the human brain are real and have a direct link to human perception/behaviors. Because science > feelz.

But I'm sure a mind reading know it all like yourself just KNOWS their politics am I right?

Another far left trait.....mind reading.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Yea, the part where you back up your bullshit and trash biology/psychology as sciences in their near entirety.

It's ok, NOBODY is holding their breaths.



Probably a wide range, it's only the hard left SJW's/feminist that pretend everything is a social construction and biology/psychology is bullshit.

But I'm sure a mind reading know it all like yourself just KNOWS their politics am I right?

Another far left trait.....mind reading.

Are you really accusing someone else about mind reading?

 

[BotanyBoy]

Are you really accusing someone else about mind reading?

Are you really so illiterate you need to ask that?


I don't do 'mind reading' I mostly do shoving peoples own words up their ass's.

It's just as offensive if not more so, but not the same.

 

[DeluxAuto]

Are you really so illiterate you need to ask that?


I don't do 'mind reading' I mostly do shoving peoples own words up their ass's.

It's just as offensive if not more so, but not the same.

You poor tortured soul. All that pent up hypocrisy and no one to hear your cries.

 

[beew]

Yes, I get what the article is getting at. “Women in Western countries had the economic and cultural freedom to choose what they want, so they opted out of STEM -more in line with their aptitudes or likes-.”

And while I, too agree that men and women have some differences in wiring: Do you think that the article’s attribution of findings is entirely correct?

I’ll give a counter-example:

One of the few positives of the Communist era (in Central and Eastern Europe and East Germany, not China) was that it minimised gender differences.
Those countries too - and not just the Algeria-type - saw the largest number of women opting for math, computer sciences jobs or engineering.
Now maybe that had to do with necessity too, but gender equality certainly was a positive factor. The opposite from Algeria.

Go back and read the article again. Damn, what is so hard to understand about this?

Which made me recall an issue that is only partially related to the topic:

Some time ago, I came across an article that commented on a paradox in Anglo-Saxon Countries: that they top the chart when it comes to institutional promotion of gender equality and women’s rights, yet things are different on more personal levels.
It struck me as putting the dots on the ii’s about many things that were confusing me.

It’s the reverse with most other European countries. At an institutional level, women aren’t as supported as in Anglo-saxon countries, and men are lazy and not used to chipping in on housechores. But on an intellectual level, women and men undisputedly see themselves as equals. Which is why ask any woman from those countries what they think about contemp. Western Feminism, and they’ll roll their eyes.