Ending a relationship

[rimmy]

At what point in a D/s relationship is it time to call it quits? Is it when the sub stops wanting to serve her dom?

What about when a Dom refuses to take the hint and refuses to let go?

Would you have less respect for a so called Dom who doesn't have the balls to cut his sub loose even though she's told him it's over?

 

[rosco rathbone]

A
Would you have less respect for a so called Dom who doesn't have the balls to cut his sub loose even though she's told him it's over?

That's a real tricky one. It could go either way.

 

[rimmy]

That's a real tricky one. It could go either way.

How so? If a sub of mine told me she didn't want to continue I would want to. I'm not even talking about a r/l relationship but I know a sub who's let her Dom go and he still acts like he's her owner. It's sad really.

 

[A Desert Rose]

At what point in a D/s relationship is it time to call it quits? Is it when the sub stops wanting to serve her dom?

What about when a Dom refuses to take the hint and refuses to let go?

Would you have less respect for a so called Dom who doesn't have the balls to cut his sub loose even though she's told him it's over?

I can't speak for anyone else because all relationships have their own dynamics. If there's one thing that's a truism, we all see this world (based on this particular thread topic, be it a D/s or vanilla relationship) in our own ways and based on our own life experiences.

A D/s relationship, in my mind, is no different than any other... it ends when it ends. One person or the other (in this case, the Dom or the sub) will eventually accept that.

If one party doesn't accept that it's over and "refuses to let go," it can easily become a case of harrassment. Just like in the "vanilla" world.

Contrary to popular opinion, "BDSM folks" aren't a whole lot different than anyone else.

A relationship is a relationship... is a relationship...

 

[rosco rathbone]

How so? If a sub of mine told me she didn't want to continue I would want to. I'm not even talking about a r/l relationship but I know a sub who's let her Dom go and he still acts like he's her owner. It's sad really.

This gets all into the difficult and complex issue of "do subs always know their own minds?" and "does 'go away' always mean go away?".

Naturally the wrong call here can make you look a right chump.

 

[WriterDom]

There are dynamics going on with subs and their first Doms that can border on abuse. I guess you could say the same thing happens in the vanilla world. But there when you get dumped the guy has usually moved on to another squeeze and doesn't rub salt in the wounds as much.

 

[A Desert Rose]

This gets all into the difficult and complex issue of "do subs always know their own minds?" and "does 'go away' always mean go away?".

Naturally the wrong call here can make you look a right chump.

and the same can be said of non-submissive women... do they "always know their own minds?" LMAO...

Come'on Rosco... you know better than this. Being submissive does not mean we are mindless. ;-)

 

[A Desert Rose]

There are dynamics going on with subs and their first Doms that can border on abuse. I guess you could say the same thing happens in the vanilla world. But there when you get dumped the guy has usually moved on to another squeeze and doesn't rub salt in the wounds as much.

Yes, darling. The same thing goes on in any kind of relationship. Rubbing salt in the wound makes one an asshole. An asshole is an asshole... by any other name, (Dom, ex-husband, ex-wife, sub) as well.

 

[rosco rathbone]

and the same can be said of non-submissive women... do they "always know their own minds?" LMAO...

Come'on Rosco... you know better than this. Being submissive does not mean we are mindless. ;-)

I agree with you on all points. It's just not completely cut and dried. No does not always mean no, and less so in "BDSM" than anywhere else. Dangerous, but there it is.

 

[rimmy]

I can't speak for anyone else because all relationships have their own dynamics. If there's one thing that's a truism, we all see this world (based on this particular thread topic, be it a D/s or vanilla relationship) in our own ways and based on our own life experiences.

A D/s relationship, in my mind, is no different than any other... it ends when it ends. One person or the other (in this case, the Dom or the sub) will eventually accept that.

If one party doesn't accept that it's over and "refuses to let go," it can easily become a case of harrassment. Just like in the "vanilla" world.

Contrary to popular opinion, "BDSM folks" aren't a whole lot different than anyone else.

A relationship is a relationship... is a relationship...

LOL. I know that. I'm one of you.

 

[RJMasters]

Sometimes its about respecting another person's wishes. Respecting the other person's wishes is the only right thing to do. Playing the yes means no game is a dangerious game to play. Certainly not one I would ever consider playing.

 

[Recidiva]

There is a snapping point for me.

I can feel it coming, and I'll warn and I'll prognosticate.

Most people won't listen, and then when I'm one millimeter over that line, it's absolutely over.

And then I hear "How could this happen, I had no idea?"

It's like sand running out of an hourglass, and at a certain point, there's nothing left. I'm done.

 

[A Desert Rose]

I agree with you on all points. It's just not completely cut and dried. No does not always mean no, and less so in "BDSM" than anywhere else. Dangerous, but there it is.

You're right... no doesn't always mean no. And nothing is ever cut and dried. But in this case, since we are discussing the particulars of a sub kicking a Dom to the curb and the sub says it's over, but doesn't mean it's over, then you're dealing with a seriously immature sub.

And again, this can easily be a husband and wife scenario... or that PYL/pyl thing I hate so. I keep trying to keep this topic "in general." I think subs/Doms or anyone else, can be interchangeable here.

 

[Guest]

This gets all into the difficult and complex issue of "do subs always know their own minds?" and "does 'go away' always mean go away?".

Naturally the wrong call here can make you look a right chump.

Yeah...Yeah it does... No argument..No weasel room... No dicking around..

My logic to these statements????

Either "go away" really means go away.. In which case persisting can/will leave you in bad odor in the community ( And that community can be HUGE if the sub does the online fandango)..And it can get you busted for harrassment/stalking.. (easier every day)

Or, "go away" doesn't really mean "go away"...In which case that particular type of uncertainty is just not something to have to deal with.. Even once.
*shrug* None of us being mind readers means you have to take everyone.. Even subs (Hmmm Especially subs) at their spoken word.. Not filter an interpretation through your own (possibly mistaken) understanding.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

Would you have less respect for a so called Dom who doesn't have the balls to cut his sub loose even though she's told him it's over?

Forgive me, but... when a sub calls it quits.. he or she has decided it's over. If it's over, he/she should just leave.

I have left a Dom without his permission to do so... I made it clear how I felt, he could not offer to fix what was wrong (he admitted what was wrong was his fault), and so I ended it and left.

*shrug* It seems pretty simple to me.

 

[rosco rathbone]

Or, "go away" doesn't really mean "go away"...In which case that particular type of uncertainty is just not something to have to deal with.. Even once.
*shrug* None of us being mind readers means you have to take everyone.. Even subs (Hmmm Especially subs) at their spoken word.. Not filter an interpretation through your own (possibly mistaken) understanding.

edited, this same discussion has gotten me in enough trouble already.

 

[alice_underneath]

The comments in this post are based on my observations of relationships in general.


Sometimes, "go away" means something like:

I saw you and Jane together at the party last weekend. I was shocked, and hurt, and I don't believe you when you say it was nothing, because I saw that look on your face. I'm going to quit before I am fired, even though I absolutely adore you. What I am secretly hoping is that you will show me how important I am to you by working hard to convince me not to leave.

or

For months, I have felt as if our relationship is a distant second priority behind your job/hobby/golf game/whatever. I've tried to tell you how I feel, but nothing is really changing. I am therefore ending our relationship, even though I love you very much. What I am secretly hoping is that this will be a wake-up call and that you'll beg me to come back and stop taking me for granted.


Sometimes, "go away" means:

I looooooooove it when you do that caveman thang! Grab me by the hair, drag me back into the den, throw me on the floor......



That last example seems more rare than the previous two, which I would describe as fairly common.

Of course I agree that this isn't exactly optimal behavior! But the fact is that people do this sort of thing all the time. Sometimes, the partner takes them at their word and the relationship end. Sometimes, the partner reads between the lines, makes the effort to renew the relationship, and it continues on - stronger than before.

At what point in a D/s relationship is it time to call it quits? Is it when the sub stops wanting to serve her dom?

What about when a Dom refuses to take the hint and refuses to let go?

Would you have less respect for a so called Dom who doesn't have the balls to cut his sub loose even though she's told him it's over?

I agree with Mr. Rathbone. My answer to that last question is: It depends.

Alice

 

[Recidiva]

Doesn't depend for me.

There are things I want and things I need. If I express something I want and I don't get it, okay. If I express something I need and I don't get it, I will leave. I'll also say if I don't get it, I'll leave.

Very often I had something I needed when a relationship started, and then it went away. If it doesn't come back, bye bye.

 

[lettinggo]

I don't really see the grey area in "go away." Sub or not, if it's over for me, then it's over. If you don't want to believe me when I say I want you to go away, that's your prerogative, but don't expect me to continue the relationship againts my will. Just the same, I wouldn't expect a dom to tolerate a sub hanging on after they have made it know that they don't want to be in the relationship anymore.

The lines are only unclear if you want them to be.

Regarding your first scenerio, Alice, it's a chance you're taking by telling him to go away when you really mean 'try harder'. I told my ex-husband that I didn't want it to come down to an ultimatum; I wanted to know that he felt I was worth fighting for before it came down to "change or I'll leave". I left, he's changed, and it's too little too late. If I tell you to go away and I don't really mean it, there's a chance you'll take me seriously and not come back. In that case, the lesson learned is that you don't win every game you play.

 

[crazybbwgirl]

I've broken it off with 2 Doms because they basically just ignored me most of the time. And not in a good way. Both have written or called questioning my decision. Even trying to change it.

Now, I'd like to just 'play' with either of them when they have the time for it, but neither of them are going for that one...

Fuck - its hard to be a single sub. And that sucks cuz it could be so much fun....

 

[bridgeburner]

I'm with Rosco on this one and I think Alice has given some good frexes. The only one I can think of that didn't make the list was "You did something that scared me and I'm backing away but if you could reassure me and rebuild my trust I'd be willing to stick it out and try again."

Some folks are better communicators than others. Not everyone says what they mean, not everyone is even capabale of it. A lot of people aren't self-aware enough to even know what they want, much less convey it to someone else clearly and reliably. Not everyone is quick enough on the uptake to fully grok where his partner is coming from.

If communication was that easy everyone's relationships would be smooth sailing 99% of the time.

As far as whether the Dom looks like a chump or not, did he ask why she called it quits? If she's just done with him then the only thing to do is to let go and move on or he WILL look like a chump. If every Dom who'd ever lost a sub was considered a chump then all Doms would be chumps.


-B

 

[hotblooded]

At what point in a D/s relationship is it time to call it quits? Is it when the sub stops wanting to serve her dom?
What about when a Dom refuses to take the hint and refuses to let go?
Would you have less respect for a so called Dom who doesn't have the balls to cut his sub loose even though she's told him it's over?

People have all sorts of reasons why they don't want to let go of their partners.

It's time to call it quits when you aren't getting your needs met (whatever they might be) not enough sex, scening etc. or boredom.

Offering hints are one thing, being direct with the Dom... ending the relationship and leaving is quite another. If she has his collar, maybe dropping it in his lap would get the point across to him, as she turns and walks out the door balls in hand.

Is she waiting for a signed release form or the Dom's best wishes? Screw that, she can leave whenever she likes, if that is what she actually wants.

Hmmm... would I have less respect for a Dom who doesn't want to release his sub and would I think he is "less ballsy" for not doing so.
For one, no-one likes rejection. Two, his Domly pride or reputation may be at stake if he does release her. Would people think he is a loser if she leaves him? Dunno.

 

[FurryFury]

It doesn't matter who says it's over. Once you do the intial rush of what? How can it be? What about this? And the fuckers still say it's over? It's over.

If they are just playing fuck them! That's what I say.

Anyone who hangs on and hangs on is a fuckwad IMO.

I don't play games about this. When it's over, it's over and nothing will bring it back. That is sad but that is the way of life.

It doesn't have to make sense or be fair or even have an explanation it just is what it is, null, void.

If you are lucky you can still be civil or even buds but if not it's dead angry void, sometimes with a side order of can I hurt them more throw in.

That's the way I see it.

Fury

 

[alice_underneath]

Sometimes, "go away" means something like:

I saw you and Jane together at the party last weekend. I was shocked, and hurt, and I don't believe you when you say it was nothing, because I saw that look on your face. I'm going to quit before I am fired, even though I absolutely adore you. What I am secretly hoping is that you will show me how important I am to you by working hard to convince me not to leave.

Regarding your first scenerio, Alice, it's a chance you're taking by telling him to go away when you really mean 'try harder'. I told my ex-husband that I didn't want it to come down to an ultimatum; I wanted to know that he felt I was worth fighting for before it came down to "change or I'll leave". I left, he's changed, and it's too little too late. If I tell you to go away and I don't really mean it, there's a chance you'll take me seriously and not come back. In that case, the lesson learned is that you don't win every game you play.

Sometimes, the woman is absolutely not playing a game. She is dead serious, and 100% convinced that the guy no longer wants/needs/loves her in the way he used to. She finds the relationship untenable under the circumstances, so she walks.

But even though she believes she is right about the change in his affections, she could still be hoping she's wrong. In that case, she is often very amenable to his efforts to repair the relationship.

I'm with Rosco on this one and I think Alice has given some good frexes. The only one I can think of that didn't make the list was "You did something that scared me and I'm backing away but if you could reassure me and rebuild my trust I'd be willing to stick it out and try again."

Some folks are better communicators than others. Not everyone says what they mean, not everyone is even capabale of it. A lot of people aren't self-aware enough to even know what they want, much less convey it to someone else clearly and reliably. Not everyone is quick enough on the uptake to fully grok where his partner is coming from.

That's another "good frex".... ...... and some excellent observations on human interaction as well.

Alice

 

[A Desert Rose]

It doesn't matter who says it's over. Once you do the intial rush of what? How can it be? What about this? And the fuckers still say it's over? It's over.

If they are just playing fuck them! That's what I say.

Anyone who hangs on and hangs on is a fuckwad IMO.

I don't play games about this. When it's over, it's over and nothing will bring it back. That is sad but that is the way of life.

It doesn't have to make sense or be fair or even have an explanation it just is what it is, null, void.

If you are lucky you can still be civil or even buds but if not it's dead angry void sometimes with a side order of can I hurt them more throw in.

That's the way I see it.

Fury

I agree with you, Fury. Ending a relationship is not something done lightly. It makes no difference which party ends it. And if you take that stand, you'd better KNOW you mean it and accept the consequences.

Like that other guy said... he's not a mind reader. "Does she really mean this?" "Does he really mean that?" I'm not sure how many other ways "it's over" can be interpreted.

One can add all the different scenarios one wants to... maybe she saw this or that or MISunderstood one thing or another. But that's not the question poised in the initial post:

At what point in a D/s relationship is it time to call it quits? Is it when the sub stops wanting to serve her dom?

What about when a Dom refuses to take the hint and refuses to let go?

Would you have less respect for a so called Dom who doesn't have the balls to cut his sub loose even though she's told him it's over?

It still goes back to this; you'd better be sure of the position you are taking and prepared to accept the other party's reaction. If you're just playing around with someone's feelings, calling their bluff or think you know something that you don't and fail to communicate yourself to your partner, you're not mature enough to be in any kind of relationship.