Endangered Punctuation

[Boxlicker101]

Well...Forgive me for my passion - I AM an English Teacher. We tend to get VERY passionate about such things.

I tend to get passionate about grammar and punctuation too. Is this a grammatical sentence to you? "Everybody be sure to bring their homework."

 

[leyna]

I tend to get passionate about grammar and punctuation too. Is this a grammatical sentence to you? "Everybody be sure to bring their homework."

NOOOOOO!!!! ::Hair standing on end. :: ::Twitches from everywhere....::

 

[sr71plt]

Of course not. It should be:

"Everybody, be sure to bring their homework."

 

[leyna]

Of course not. It should be:

"Everybody, be sure to bring their homework."

ugg...uggg ...uggg...UMMMM... NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
"YOUR"
thanks for playing

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
I tend to get passionate about grammar and punctuation too. Is this a grammatical sentence to you? "Everybody be sure to bring their homework."

NOOOOOO!!!! ::Hair standing on end. :: ::Twitches from everywhere....::

I know. If I were addressing a group of boys or a group of girls, I would use gender specific pronouns. With a mixed group, I would say something like: "Everyone be sure to bring his or her homework." or "All students should be sure to bring their homework."

 

[sr71plt]

ugg...uggg ...uggg...UMMMM... NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!
"YOUR"
thanks for playing

Ah, no. It's possible it's someone else's homework altogether that they are being asked to bring.

 

[strey8arrow]

He'll be in serious trouble if they issue rules about periods!

LOL

Such as, a lady can't have one on Sundays?

 

[leyna]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxlicker101
I tend to get passionate about grammar and punctuation too. Is this a grammatical sentence to you? "Everybody be sure to bring their homework."




I know. If I were addressing a group of boys or a group of girls, I would use gender specific pronouns. With a mixed group, I would say something like: "Everyone be sure to bring his or her homework." or "All students should be sure to bring their homework."

Ummm...no.
IF you are addressing an audience of male and female, "your" is appropriate in this case. If you are REFERRING to a specific GROUP, "his or her" applies.

 

[leyna]

Ah, no. It's possible it's someone else's homework altogether that they are being asked to bring.

lol.. One would hope not to encounter that scenario

 

[Boxlicker101]

Ummm...no.
IF you are addressing an audience of male and female, "your" is appropriate in this case. If you are REFERRING to a specific GROUP, "his or her" applies.

You're right about addressing or referring to, but I was asking specifically of which pronoun to use.

 

[sr71plt]

You're right about addressing or returning to, but I was asking specifically of which pronoun to use.

No, you didn't ask about a pronoun at all, specifically or otherwise. You asked if the sentence was grammatical. Having already heard that you were stingy with commas (while claiming to overuse them, as idotic as the contradiction might sound), I gave your sentence a comma, and it then became grammatically correct.

Now, if you want to ask about prepositions, I must point out that the "of" in your last posting is looking really, really unnecessary and embarrassed sitting there between the "specifically" and the "which."

 

[leyna]

You're right about addressing or returning to, but I was asking specifically of which pronoun to use.

did i not answer the question?

 

[sr71plt]

did i not answer the question?

Yes, you did. But . . . but I guess you haven't met our Boxlicker yet.

 

[leyna]

Yes, you did. But . . . but I guess you haven't met our Boxlicker yet.

sorry HeWhoHasMadeMyLifeWorthLiving is home ---please PM grammatical ambiguiity

 

[sr71plt]

sorry HeWhoHasMadeMyLifeWorthLiving is home ---please PM grammatical ambiguiity

What grammatical ambiguity? (Should I whisper so "He" doesn't hear us?)

 

[Boxlicker101]

No, you didn't ask about a pronoun at all, specifically or otherwise. You asked if the sentence was grammatical. Having already heard that you were stingy with commas (while claiming to overuse them, as idotic as the contradiction might sound), I gave your sentence a comma, and it then became grammatically correct.

Now, if you want to ask about prepositions, I must point out that the "of" in your last posting is looking really, really unnecessary and embarrassed sitting there between the "specifically" and the "which."

I didn't specifically mention a pronoun, but that was what I meant, and Leyna understood that. Years ago, masculine pronouns were used when referring to individuals in a mixed-gender group, but some PC minded people have been replacing those pronouns with gender neutral plural pronouns, such as "their," even though this is not grammatical, and this was the thrust of my query.

I am not stingy with commas, and I do tend to use more than I need, such as including one between clauses of a compound sentence. If you are addressing a group as "everybody," a comma is included after that salutation; if you are referring to a group, there is no comma.

"Of" is redundant. That's what sometimes happens when one writes something and changes the wording and does not proofread.

Yes, Leyna, you did answer my question. My next query was meant for Ace.

 

[sr71plt]

What next query? The one where you stated you specifically were asking about pronouns although you didn't specifically ask about anything or mention pronouns at all.

Sorry, I don't mean to be having this much fun with you tonight. But it's been soooo easy.

 

[leyna]

What grammatical ambiguity? (Should I whisper so "He" doesn't hear us?)

sorry - it was a very INeloquent way to say I wouldn't be posting anymore last night but if anyone had any questions regarding the clarity of any of my statements, they could PM me.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Serial Commas and Logical Punctuation

Serial commas shouldn't be a problem. You use them when they're necessary to clarify a list, such as,

Go to the store and get bread, butter, pork, and beans.

Which is not the same as:

Go to the store and get bread, butter, pork and beans.

Or:

He was exhausted, sick, and tired of being told what to do.
vs. being sick and tired...


More interesting (to me, at least), is the rise of the Logical Punctuation movement, which wants to change the rules about where commas go with respect to quotation marks. In the current American system, the following is correct:

We went to the movies and saw "Thor," and then went home.

The Logical Punctuation (and British) system would say,

We went to the movies and saw "Thor", and then went home.

The comma obviously applies to the entire first part of the of the sentence, so why should it be included within the quotation marks? The name of the movie isn't "Thor,"; it's "Thor". (And not "Thor." either.)

Also, notice that in the America system, colons and semi-colons (as in the sentence above) properly go outside the quotation marks unless they're part of the quotation, so why should commas be treated differently?

When the comma's part of the quote and not meta to it, it still goes in quotes, as in:

"Don't mind me," he said. "I was just leaving."

 

[sr71plt]

More interesting (to me, at least), is the rise of the Logical Punctuation movement, which wants to change the rules about where commas go with respect to quotation marks. In the current American system, the following is correct:

We went to the movies and saw "Thor," and then went home.

The Logical Punctuation (and British) system would say,

We went to the movies and saw "Thor", and then went home.

I doubt this is an example of the Logical Punctuation movement at all. The example isn't grammatical. The second clause isn't independent, so a comma isn't called for at all.

Perhaps you mean:

We went to the movies and saw "Thor", and then we went home.

I doubt that will catch on in the American system. Always tucking the punctuation inside the quote marks is much easier to remember. The British system just invites unnecessary consideration of minutia.

 

[Goldie Munro]

Serial commas shouldn't be a problem. You use them when they're necessary to clarify a list, such as,

Go to the store and get bread, butter, pork, and beans.

Which is not the same as:

Go to the store and get bread, butter, pork and beans.

Or:

He was exhausted, sick, and tired of being told what to do.
vs. being sick and tired...


More interesting (to me, at least), is the rise of the Logical Punctuation movement, which wants to change the rules about where commas go with respect to quotation marks. In the current American system, the following is correct:

We went to the movies and saw "Thor," and then went home.

The Logical Punctuation (and British) system would say,

We went to the movies and saw "Thor", and then went home.

The comma obviously applies to the entire first part of the of the sentence, so why should it be included within the quotation marks? The name of the movie isn't "Thor,"; it's "Thor". (And not "Thor." either.)

Also, notice that in the America system, colons and semi-colons (as in the sentence above) properly go outside the quotation marks unless they're part of the quotation, so why should commas be treated differently?

When the comma's part of the quote and not meta to it, it still goes in quotes, as in:

"Don't mind me," he said. "I was just leaving."

I'm with you. No way should those punctuation marks, in the examples you gave, go inside the quotation marks. I am more lenient with the list comma. Unless you are going for 'pork and beans' in a tin rather than just 'pork and beans' as separate items then the comma before the 'and' is not necessary (but grammatically correct) - but then I am British

 

[Goldie Munro]

I doubt this is an example of the Logical Punctuation movement at all. The example isn't grammatical. The second clause isn't independent, so a comma isn't called for at all.

Perhaps you mean:

We went to the movies and saw "Thor", and then we went home.

I doubt that will catch on in the American system. Always tucking the punctuation inside the quote marks is much easier to remember. The British system just invites unnecessary consideration of minutia.

You can repeat the second 'we' but it isn't grammatically necessary - the pronoun has been established in the first part of the sentence.

 

[sr71plt]

You can repeat the second 'we' but it isn't grammatically necessary - the pronoun has been established in the first part of the sentence.

The point was the comma. In U.S. publishing, the comma is only used for conjunctions introducing independent clauses--they are pretty strict about this to make the roadmapping clear to the lowest common denominator reader. You want the second clause to be independent, it has to have a subject too (being a pronoun isn't relevant).

Feel free to look it up or to consult the publishing house you edit for.

 

[sr71plt]

I'm with you. No way should those punctuation marks, in the examples you gave, go inside the quotation marks. I am more lenient with the list comma. Unless you are going for 'pork and beans' in a tin rather than just 'pork and beans' as separate items then the comma before the 'and' is not necessary (but grammatically correct) - but then I am British

Yes, that's because you are British--and only because you are British. Hate to break it to you, but the American system is different. So, do, please continue to point out that you are speaking to the British system, because when you don't, you are giving unhelpful guidance to American writers.

 

[Goldie Munro]

Yes, that's because you are British--and only because you are British. Hate to break it to you, but the American system is different. So, do, please continue to point out that you are speaking to the British system, because when you don't, you are giving unhelpful guidance to American writers.

I am not giving guidance to anyone - just commenting. I was agreeing with dr_mabeuse and his assertion that in some instances the comma inside the quotation marks seems to make no sense. I was also confused that you changed the sentence he used as an example by inserting a second 'we'. Just comments and observations and I did say I was British.