Election Foot Stomping

[Guest]

Palm Springs is in California.

Are there not still several million absentee ballots still to be counted throughout the U.S.? Gore is only ahead by less than 200,000. What if it turns out Bush wins the popular vote? How will you Goreballs spin that one?

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Thanks Allagory!

About time someone stepped in and said something smart.

Felt alone in a sea of Gore Zombies.

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[CW]

Palm Springs is in California.

Are there not still several million absentee ballots still to be counted throughout the U.S.? Gore is only ahead by less than 200,000. What if it turns out Bush wins the popular vote? How will you Goreballs spin that one?

and the reverse is also true,,, what's with this mad dash to a concession? Doesn't THAT smack of "power Hungry" ? No spin here,,, just questions that have yet to be answered.


And no, JR, you haven't made me mad yet,,, you may ultimately succeed,,, but, not yet. I have read all the threads and the news print and listened to CNN,ABC,NBC,CBS, and whatever else I could find to inform myself,,,, BUT,,, I'm not the one throwing out reckless statements like confetti,,,

 

[Latina]

Bush hasn't declared himself the winner yet, how come Johnny Ringo knows more than Bush and is ready to declare that Bush won?

This is a nation of laws, not of men. That means a handful of men, or a single man, doesn't get to decide to ignore our laws and do whatever the hell he feels like. The laws are working right now to figure out who really won, and if they won by LEGAL means. You seem to want to circumvent these laws and just get Bush into the White House at whatever cost. I just don't understand that thinking.

The law provides that if there were improprieties in the vote, as it appears that there MIGHT have been, they must be recounted. There is just enough doubt about the legalities and proprieties of Bush's "win" that these laws MUST kick in. It is not recounting until we ensure that Gore wins, it is making sure that the votes were legal and correct. Don't you WANT your candidate to have won LEGALLY?

If a president can win illegally, are we not as bad as the Commies like Milosevic, that you conservatives so detest? Pick a man, break whatever laws you have to, do whatever it takes to make sure he wins. Is the Milosevic way, the kind of government you want, JR? Milosevic clearly lost HIS election, yet he declared himself the winner. Gore and Bush don't know yet WHO won, and neither has yet declared himself the winner until all the facts are in, isn't that a BETTER model of government than the Milosevic example? In many countries, every election means the entire government is scrapped and a whole NEW government with all new laws is established. In the U.S., the government and its laws go on from one administration to the next, only the person who is temporarily at the helm changes, and there are laws to make sure that whoever is at the helm got there legally and fairly, those laws are now doing the job they were designed to do, and for some odd reason that upsets you.

Let the normal and legal processes take their course. If no laws were broken, and Bush is legally the winner, then fine, I'm really OK with that, even though I believe that this nation's liberties and economy will both fare better under Gore than under Bush, if Bush is truly and LEGALLY President, then that really doesn't bother me. But it is just too early, we just don't KNOW yet until the investigation runs it course. But if GORE legally won, what will you do then JR, huh? Will you accept that, or continue whining that it doesn't matter what laws may have been broken as long as Gore isn't president?

-- Latina

 

[KillerMuffin]

OK, yes, careful study of the ballot would have shown they should punch the THIRD hole instead of the second for democrat. But why have a voter card that has two columns of questions and only one column of holes, questions on both sides, first hole is for left side, second hole is for right, third hole is for the left side again, and so on? The design is deliberately awkward, with the obvious INTENT to throw voters off and ensure that Gore votes would wind up in the trash and Bush would win. 19,000 discredited votes in a state where the margin betwen candidates is less than 1,000 votes? Is that LUCK? Get REAL!

Oh good grief Latina. This ballot was submitted for approval to not only the florida election commission but both the Republican AND Democratic parties WEEKS before the election happened. Bitching about it now and saying it was a deliberate Republican plot is rather ignorant. Yes, it was confusing to some people. Some people need neon dicrections to understand things. There was quite a bit of screwing up all around. But calling it a plot so Gore would lose votes and ensuring Bush's win? That's a ridiculous allegation; based upon the facts.

Should they be allowed to vote again because Florida screwed up and put nasty tempered jerks in polling stations? Can I vote again? I didn't like my ballot very much either. I saw the ballot. I can see how some people might find it confusing, however I understood it right away without having to read instructions. When I vote I carefully read every single word printed on either side of the ballot before making a single mark. It's rather like buying a mortgage, only more serious, we're electing a president. Caution is called for prior to filling in the circles, not afterwards. The Electoral College was created for circumstances like these, people unable to either understand or to take the time to try to understand their ballots. If they can't understand a ballot, can they understand the issues? I have no sympathy for them, they did not take the time to make sure they were getting what they want when they marked a circle. Did they even bother to read over the whole ballot? Including the other ten names? Or did they just look for Gore's and fill in a circle?

[Edited by KillerMuffin on 11-10-2000 at 09:35 AM]

 

[Latina]

Check out http://home.netscape.com/

They are showing Gore with 255 electoral votes and Bush with 246. 270 are needed to win, so neither has won YET. But at present, Gore is ahead in the electoral vote, as he is in the popular vote. All of which means precisely DIDDLY until everything is settled. But it certainly shows it's premature to announce Bush the winner on this BB, as some are doing.

Just heard that flawed ballots in Chicago caused 120,000 votes for BUSH to be eliminated there! I am in favor of a recount there, to determine whether BUSH won there, just as I am in favor of the recount now underway in Florida to determine whether Gore OR Bush won there. I only want to know who honestly and legally won this. Those who've posted on not recounting the Florida votes if it means Gore won, what will you say if Gore DOES win Florida, will you now insist on recounting the flawed Chicago votes if it means Bush might win there, and if Bush might otherwise NOT be president. Won't you all look like a buncha hypocrites THEN!

I reiterate, let the normal legal processes run their course--in Florida, Illinois, or wherever--before jumping up and down about one or the other being winner.

We are seeing history being made. The laws are in place to deal with a race THIS close, and for the first time in over a century, those laws are being called into play because the race IS this close. I find it fascinating to watch, and the emotions over it are amazing, because all these emotions won't affect the outcome one bit.

I don't KNOW if there was deliberate intent on those confusing ballots. But given that they were issued in a state where one candidate's brother is governor, and other states like California had much less confusing ballots, it is certainly suspicious, and is being investigated and if it turns out to be deliberate voter fraud, that would certainly taint any Bush victory if he DOES win. Don't you Bush supporters WANT to know whether this is the case? I would certainly want to know if Gore won by illegal means. Saying the opposing party approved these ballots, does not make them any less confusing, and does not affect whether there was criminal intent in them. A person might turn over his wallet at gunpoint, but that does not mean he approved of surrendering his wallet. IF there was criminal intent in those ballots, I would want to know, wouldn't you?

-- Latina

 

[Unclebill]

This is a nation of laws, not of men. That means a handful of men, or a single man, doesn't get to decide to ignore our laws and do whatever the hell he feels like.

Well, that's a nice statement of wishfulness. Were it true, Clinton would have been removed from office for commiting a felony and Al Gore would also have likely been removed from office. Both of them for violations of laws which their oath of office bound them to uphold and enforce.

Clinton did commit perjury and did suborn perjurious depositions to exonerate himself in a civil lawsuit. There is also ample evidence that he committed treason by selling/giving nuclear weapons technology and missile guidance technology to deliver it to the People's Republic of China. Clinton remains in office because the Democrats in the Senate banded together to ignore the evidence and keep an obvious criminal in office just because he was a Democrat.

Gore violated campaign finance laws which his party put in place subsequent to the Nixon fiasco of the 1970's. But the Justice Department ignored evidence and declined to investigate to keep him in office.

So the truth is, if you're the right guy, anything goes. And if there has been any effort to rig the election, Albert A. Gore JUNIOR has already demonstrated the measure of his character by his Clintonesque "no controlling legal authority" or "it depends on the definition of fund raising" when questioned about illegal campaign contributions. Contrast that with the Bush response when confronted directly with his 25 year old DUI arrest record (which was NEVER denied). Character does matter and the evidence indicates to me that there is a distinct disparity between the two candidates in that arena.

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Uncle Bill goes for the Smack Down.

Smack em again Bill!

 

[CreamyLady]

I still don't see any evidence of adults capable of running the executive branch. I see two children; one who is upset because Daddy can't fix it, and the other who is clearly suffering displacement anxieties.

Since there is procedure in place for settling the squabble, let it proceed. At this point, I don't give a rat's ass who ends up in the Oval Office. I suspect whoever it is will have a blanket and a wet thumb, and frankly, I'll just wait four years and vote for a replacement.

In the meantime, I'm going to hope for a very adult supporting group.

 

[CW]

I still don't see any evidence of adults capable of running the executive branch. I see two children; one who is upset because Daddy can't fix it, and the other who is clearly suffering displacement anxieties.

Since there is procedure in place for settling the squabble, let it proceed. At this point, I don't give a rat's ass who ends up in the Oval Office. I suspect whoever it is will have a blanket and a wet thumb, and frankly, I'll just wait four years and vote for a replacement.

In the meantime, I'm going to hope for a very adult supporting group.

CL,,,let's not overlook the dirty diapers that will no doubt go along with that churlish behavior,,, will temper tantrums also be a daily event in the White House ? Bet they will.

 

[CreamyLady]

I'm sure the tantrum will be a daily feature. I'd like to think that either has progressed to toilet training, though.

Which makes me wonder -- does Jockey make briefs with those little pictures that turn color when wet?

 

[Silverlily]

I still don't see any evidence of adults capable of running the executive branch. I see two children; one who is upset because Daddy can't fix it, and the other who is clearly suffering displacement anxieties.

I wonder if this means the new White House china will be sippy cups and those sectioned bowls with suction cups?

 

[Lasher]

I suspect whoever it is will have a blanket and a wet thumb, and frankly, I'll just wait four years and vote for a replacement.

Bad news, CL. From what I've been reading tonite, the Gore camp is starting to think about their future and the rumors are starting to float that Gore is gonna concede this thing so he doesn't ruin his chances for 2004.

I've read alot of interesting things tonite, btw. With votes still being counted all over the country (not just Florida, New Mexico and Oregon... There's still about a million ballots to count in California, a few hundred thousand in New York, a large percentage in Alaska, and pretty much every state in the Union is still counting ballots), "Experts" are saying that there are still about 3 to 5 million votes to be counted, and that because of the nature of these types of voters, it's very conceivable that when it's all said and done Dubbayah could come out with a slim edge in the popular vote. It's something I've been keeping an eye on. When I got home from work this afternoon Gore was up by about 230,000 in the popular vote, and it's down to about 175,000 when I just checked here a moment ago. Which gives me a chance to point out just how stupid this post by Johnny Ringo was...

In every election I can remember the winner was declared after the first count.

Granted, there is still the absentee ballots. But we have those every election. Never waited till next week before, why now?

There's never been an election this close during what passes for your short attention span, Johnny. You'd have to got back to 1876 to find anything like it, and that must not have been printed in your Young Republican's guide.

The fact is that the vote count goes on like this every 4 years, it just hasn't mattered until this year. The results you've seen on election nights in the past have been based on exit polls and the sampling of returns in key precincts - or the fact that the Democrats were stupid enough to nominate Walter Mondale. It's really easy to call an election when someone wins 49 states. And not very damn easy when you have to actually count every damn vote.

I also read something where some "Expert" on statistics and what not said that with a voter sample of the size we are dealing with (some where between 105 and 110 million by the time we are done), that it's impossible to get a truly accurate vote count no matter how many times you count. He said that for the numbers involved, the most accurate way to come up with a result for the vote count would be to count the votes 100 times, and then average the numbers.

So, near as I can figure, it looks like Gore will end up conceding (even Nixon finally knew it was time to walk away), and we'll get to do this ALL OVER AGAIN IN 4 YEARS!!!!

 

[CW]

good ones ladies,,, how about a time out corner in the oval office,,, major reconstruction there folks,,,

AND IF (I'm not conceeding that this is the case ) they are past the diaper stage,,, does that mean we will be purchasing potty booster seats and steps for the bathrooms?

 

[Johnny Ringo]

Speaking of Stupid Posts,

Remember "Lasher and the Magic 8 Ball"?

Those who can do.
Those who can't teach.

 

[Nicole]

Sorry but that's not true.

I'm from Australia and although I don't know you well I have to disagree with you.

I was extremly interested in your election the other day, I got involved with a thread on here and asked a lot of what would be "easy answer" questions to American's, not so for me. I don't understand how your Electrol system works and I'm not one for long drawn out explanation's. I asked the questions on the board and was answered in a normal well explained fashion. The person that taught me all I learnt that day ... Lasher.

So until you read and re read everything on these Political threads take time to see what goes on, take time to see who teaches who around here.

Lasher, I'm still looking at that damn map day in day out, this is addictive.

 

[Lasher]

Speaking of Stupid Posts,

Remember "Lasher and the Magic 8 Ball"?

C'mon, Johnny, lighten up... That was some funny shit. But then you wouldn't know satire if it bit ya in the ass, would ya?

You haven't got to the part in the Young Republican's Guide where it says to pretend you have a sense of humor, have ya??

Those who can do.
Those who can't teach.

Can't teach what?? C'mon, complete thoughts, Johnny...

[Edited by Lasher on 11-10-2000 at 10:02 PM]

 

[wild_jay]

Possible Solutions to the Presidential Election.

1. Let them share the White House for the next four years, so there would be two Presidents for the interns to play with.

2. Remove the term limit and simply let Bill 'carry on' for another four years while Florida does an endless series of recounts.

3. Get them together for a no holds barred, hard core, steel cage match in from of the WWF restaurant at Time's Square. Vince McMahon could ref.

You Americans think you got problems...visit Canada, our alternatives are worse than dumb and dumber.

Hope it gets resolved soon. Interesting thread, love it when people get passionate about politics.

 

[Guest]

My name is Joe Q. Republican

[Sweats and points fat finger, nodding head incredulously]

Your rights end where my nose begins. Why should I PAY for other kids to go to public school when I send my kid to private school? And if those porch monkeys in the ghetto are uppity enough to grow brains, throw them a school voucher and let them go to my spoiled rotten son's school. Yeah right, like they're smart enough. HA!

Oh, and if I have to pay for anything EVER you'll hear from my lawyer. Oh, I own an arsenal and I'd shoot my daughter dead if she got an abortion. My car is HUGE and chugs along at 6 mpg and I'd fucking NUKE any two bit jew or towel-head country who raises my gas even one fucking red CENT.

Arm every man woman and child and kill all senior citizens. Dead weight, you know? And, you're DAMN right I'll vote my ASS off for Strom Thurmond even though he's held up only by his spine and globs of puss. Affirmative action is only for retards and bitches who should be only happy for me to use their ass as my personal handkerchief.

I love nothing more than to cut all the taxes along with all the social services in this country. Oh, and Texas should be a republic of its own, Goddamnit. I like when they execute retards and spics.

Oh, employment should be only a nepitocracy and I'll be damned that I'll hire some wetback just because he's smart. He stinks and he makes me nervous when he's around that supply closet. You know, wet backs make for sticky fingers.

Everyone will be God-fearing and we will execute all heretics on sight. I wipe my ass with the first amendment. Carnivore computers in every business and no corporation was EVER a monopoly, especially the ones that have the fastest hookers with the coke vials hid in their bras.

I'm white, fat, in the middle of my life and my wife only agrees with me because she's brainless and WILL taste the back of my hand if she feels any different. Everything that costs me money with no material return should be stopped, period.

Trickle down and Laffer-curve supply side economics would've worked had it not been for Clinton and his hippie pot-smoking bullshit. Yeah right, like HE did anything for me. Reagan was single-handedly responsible for the economic turnaround over ten years later, no matter how much money he poured so liberally (ha!) into the military.

My name is Joe Q. Republican, and I am truly a fucking retarded bastard. Welcome to my world.

 

[CelestialBody]