Education issues

[Eilan]

In order to clean up the WPMO thread and let people get back to their usual angry selves , I propose that we move the discussion here.

Here's where things got started, but feel free to change the subject.

 

[pleasteasme]

Good idea.

There are so many issues facing education. Honestly, if I didn't value and enjoy the subject matter that I teach so much, I would be out faster than a rat on a cheeto!

NCLB is just one of many difficulties. *Grrrrrr* It gets me all fired up just thinking about it!

 

[EJFan]

i think kids get shafted on so many levels in our education system here.

there are rarely opportunities for kids who excel, yet the ones who can't keep up are passed anyway. what's the point? no matter how well or how poorly you do, you wind up in pretty much the same place save whatever sense of personal satisfaction they get from what you do.

parents make it so that teachers and administrators have to be diplomats instead of educators. too many parents put their kids on an equal footing with adults... they either feel their kids do no wrong, or if they do, it's the teacher or school's fault.

awards and incentives are fantastic... but do we have to reward EVERYONE? what's the point??? if every kid gets recognized for something it doesn't really mean much now does it.

vouchers are a load of shit too. if the school system isn't satisfactory, fix the fucking thing... don't take money OUT of it. there are enough funding problems and now we have to make school tax money portable???? what fucking shit headed economists are guiding this initiative????

 

[eudaemonia]

I wish I could nuke the public school system of K-12 education into oblivion and start over with the Montessori model.

 

[pleasteasme]

i think kids get shafted on so many levels in our education system here.

there are rarely opportunities for kids who excel, yet the ones who can't keep up are passed anyway. what's the point? no matter how well or how poorly you do, you wind up in pretty much the same place save whatever sense of personal satisfaction they get from what you do.

Sadly, this is true. Our high school offers very few advanced or honors classes because our district's class size requirement is 36. Without 36 students enrolled, a class will be collapsed and those students are dispersed among other classes.

parents make it so that teachers and administrators have to be diplomats instead of educators. too many parents put their kids on an equal footing with adults... they either feel their kids do no wrong, or if they do, it's the teacher or school's fault.

If I had a dollar for every time I called home to talk to a parent about their student (grades, missing assignments, behavior, whatever) and that parent informs me basicly that their high schooler is out of control and when they are at school they are MY problem...I'd be rich! Students ARE NOT adults and subsequently should not be treated as equals.

Sometimes, I wonder if this student/parent/or other adult equality thing stems from very young parents? (I am just speculating here)

awards and incentives are fantastic... but do we have to reward EVERYONE? what's the point??? if every kid gets recognized for something it doesn't really mean much now does it.

Hahaha, that was my point on the other thread. We celebrate mediocrity? I never understood that. Our "Rennaissance" program seems to keep things well defined - students that excell academically and those that have shown great improvement in their overall GPA are recognized. It seems to be a good program.

vouchers are a load of shit too. if the school system isn't satisfactory, fix the fucking thing... don't take money OUT of it. there are enough funding problems and now we have to make school tax money portable???? what fucking shit headed economists are guiding this initiative????

I'm not too familiar with the vouchers. Not something I have to deal with here in my district. They don't appear to be a sound move, financially speaking.

Funding though, that is a HUGE issue. I spend a lot of money out of my own pocket in order for my class to run smoothly. I do it because I want to and it makes my job easier to have the proper tools for the job. Otherwise, I wouldn't have any paper, overheads, white board pens, nada. The school site nor district provide diddley squat in terms of supply money.

 

[pleasteasme]

I wish I could nuke the public school system of K-12 education into oblivion and start over with the Montessori model.

Make sure I'm out of the building before, please eudaemonia?


What is the Montessori model? I'm not familiar with that.

 

[Eilan]

Funding though, that is a HUGE issue. I spend a lot of money out of my own pocket in order for my class to run smoothly. I do it because I want to and it makes my job easier to have the proper tools for the job. Otherwise, I wouldn't have any paper, overheads, white board pens, nada. The school site nor district provide diddley squat in terms of supply money.

That's why I bought my kids' teachers school supplies at Christmastime. I took a plastic box and filled it with pens, pencils, dry-erase markers, post-it notes, stickers, and stuff like that. I figured that they could actually use that stuff, and I know that they pay for lots of things like that out of their own pockets.

Of course, once the kids get older, they don't tend to give gifts.

 

[pleasteasme]

That's why I bought my kids' teachers school supplies at Christmastime. I took a plastic box and filled it with pens, pencils, dry-erase markers, post-it notes, stickers, and stuff like that. I figured that they could actually use that stuff, and I know that they pay for lots of things like that out of their own pockets.

Of course, once the kids get older, they don't tend to give gifts.

That is very thoughtful of you Eilan!

You are right though, high school teachers don't tend to get gifts. My greatest gift is a short day *just kidding*

It is just one of those things you know comes part and parcel with this job. Heck, I have even bought my students' clothing and shoes for a competition because they couldn't afford them. I don't mind, I would rather have a student participate than not because of their families financial situation.

 

[EJFan]

You are right though, high school teachers don't tend to get gifts. My greatest gift is a short day *just kidding*

oops. thought this said "SHORTS day." my bad.

*spins 'round and exits thread disappointed*

 

[pleasteasme]

oops. thought this said "SHORTS day." my bad.

*spins 'round and exits thread disappointed*

Oh yes, didn't you hear it is movie theme week at school? Today is "Dukes of Hazzard" day and I'll be wearing my Daisy Dukes...



*oh dear*

 

[midwestyankee]

Moved from WPMO:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eilan

I agree. I was the class valedictorian; that year, we just happened to have one valedictorian and one salutatorian. The class had voted on a student to give the farewell speech to the teacher at out our Senior Class Breakfast. The student selected was a decent student; she wasn't an honor student, but she was definitely above average. The day of graduation, a small group of students approached our class advisor and asked her if this girl could do her speech at graduation. The advisor said no, that there would be speeches from the valedictorian and salutatorian and that was it. These students threw a fit, saying that is wasn't fair that the "smart people" should get to speak on behalf of the entire class.

Well, I was hurt and pissed. I'd worked my ass off to maintain my GPA and I worked my ass off to make sure my ACT score was in the 99th percentile. I knew pretty early on that if I were to have my college education paid for, it would be because of my brain. My parents couldn't afford to pay for college. The way I saw it, I deserved my moment because I'd earned it.[/quote]




Grade inflation and extraordinary pressure to get into top colleges has had a strange impact on the high schools in my area. Most schools regularly produce from two to seven seniors who graduate with virtually identical GPAs. When you have to go the fourth decimal place to separate the top 7 students, it's not quite reasonable to claim that any one of them is the "top student in the class." The terms "valedictorian" and "salutatorian" are long gone around here.

At my children's high school and middle school, graduation speakers are chosen by the faculty on the basis of a presentation to a faculty committee of the speech that one would like to give. This tends to provide a more rounded portrait of the senior class than we would get from the top few students. I'm also proud to say that my daughter is the only student in this area who has been selected to speak at both her 8th grade and high school graduations. While she was not one of the highest achieving students on a GPA basis, she was a National Honor Society member, graduated with honors, and earned accolades for a variety of accomplishments in extracurriculars. Sure, I'm biased but I believe that her fellow classmates heard more wisdom in her speech on taking risks in life than they might have from any of the the three MIT-bound geeks who finished at the top of her class.

Eilan, my purpose in this post was not to demean the achievement of those who finish at the top of their class. You deserve to be proud of that accomplishment and I have always regretted not putting in the effort to finish higher in my high school and college classes. I just wanted to add to the discussion by showing how this issue has been handled in my area.

 

[Eilan]

Eilan, my purpose in this post was not to demean the achievement of those who finish at the top of their class. You deserve to be proud of that accomplishment and I have always regretted not putting in the effort to finish higher in my high school and college classes. I just wanted to add to the discussion by showing how this issue has been handled in my area.

My graduating class had a whopping 56 students. We had a college prep program, obviously, but no AP classes, so there was none of this "weighted" grading going on. Everything was on a 4.0 scale; I ended up with a 4.0, and #2 had a 3.91, and there were two people who tied with a 3.83. Three members of the National Honor Society had GPA's that were below 3.0.

One thing that I find interesting nowadays is the fact that there are more AP classes available in high schools, and despite that, quite a few students need to take developmental/remedial/bonehead reading, English, and math courses. In Ohio, at least, the numbers seem to be going up. When I was an undergraduate in the early 90's, there was one developmental math course and one developmental English course. When I started teaching at that same school in the late 90's, there were three developmental math courses, two developmental English courses, and a developmental reading course. During my five-year teaching stint, I taught all of these courses, including the math classes.

One year, 95% of the incoming freshmen had to take at least one developmental course. What amazed me was the number of students who were ranked at or near the top of their high school classes who ended up having to take developmental courses before they could get into the required math/writing classes. In some cases, the students just didn't do well on the placement tests (and I think the college's orientation scheduling is to blame for that).

 

[EJFan]

Oh yes, didn't you hear it is movie theme week at school? Today is "Dukes of Hazzard" day and I'll be wearing my Daisy Dukes...



*oh dear*

*stutters and looks ridiculous then leaves maintining whatever dignity is still intact*

 

[pleasteasme]

*stutters and looks ridiculous then leaves maintining whatever dignity is still intact*

Awww, EJ, you don't like theme week?

 

[EJFan]

Awww, EJ, you don't like theme week?

*babbles incoherently at the thought of PTM in shorts and blushes at her taking the time to talk to me*

 

[pleasteasme]

*babbles incoherently at the thought of PTM in shorts and blushes at her taking the time to talk to me*

You, blushing????

The babbling and blushing is cute. Now, what are you going to dress up as?



as a side note, and to avoid too much of a hijack, we dohave theme weeks and dress up days at school. Some are TV show themes, some sports, some just silly like "cozy by the fire" day..it is an interesting way to get students involved in homecoming and other activities.

 

[EJFan]

Now, what are you going to dress up as?

hmmmm... i think i'll dress up as al pacino in "devil's advocate." people say i sound like him and, let's face it, that's one sharp wardrobe he had in that role.

as a side note, and to avoid too much of a hijack, we dohave theme weeks and dress up days at school. Some are TV show themes, some sports, some just silly like "cozy by the fire" day..it is an interesting way to get students involved in homecoming and other activities.

cozy by the fire day? i'd sure BET that gets the students involved. lol.

 

[pleasteasme]

hmmmm... i think i'll dress up as al pacino in "devil's advocate." people say i sound like him and, let's face it, that's one sharp wardrobe he had in that role.


cozy by the fire day? i'd sure BET that gets the students involved. lol.

Hahahaha! They usually come to school in their pjs and slippers and a blanket. It is actually kinda disturbing.

 

[EJFan]

Hahahaha! They usually come to school in their pjs and slippers and a blanket. It is actually kinda disturbing.

see... this is what we need... less teaching to a test and more latent sexuality.

 

[SweetErika]

One thing that I find interesting nowadays is the fact that there are more AP classes available in high schools, and despite that, quite a few students need to take developmental/remedial/bonehead reading, English, and math courses. In Ohio, at least, the numbers seem to be going up. When I was an undergraduate in the early 90's, there was one developmental math course and one developmental English course. When I started teaching at that same school in the late 90's, there were three developmental math courses, two developmental English courses, and a developmental reading course. During my five-year teaching stint, I taught all of these courses, including the math classes.

One year, 95% of the incoming freshmen had to take at least one developmental course. What amazed me was the number of students who were ranked at or near the top of their high school classes who ended up having to take developmental courses before they could get into the required math/writing classes. In some cases, the students just didn't do well on the placement tests (and I think the college's orientation scheduling is to blame for that).

At least when it comes to math, I think it might be the tests that are the problem. I started taking college classes full-time in 10th grade and basically graduated high school with an Associate's. However, I'd started fulfilling my H.S. math requirement in 8th, and only had to take two math classes to get the AA (and for one of those I opted for Logic instead of traditional math, the other was taken AFTER the college assessment), so some of the material on the 4-year assessment test wasn't fresh in my mind when I took it.

Lo and behold, I got put in bonehead math when I transferred. I'm not claiming I was a stellar math student in the first place, but I certainly didn't need a review of how to add, subtract, and do long division by hand. I took that one class, and moved on to complete my degree requirements; the remedial class was absolutely no help with those. I understand that some people desperately need it, but there's something amiss in the testing system, and I've often wondered if it was partly a way for the college to make more money.

 

[pleasteasme]

see... this is what we need... less teaching to a test and more latent sexuality.

NO!!!!!!

There is plenty of sexuality going on in high school! They caugh a couple having sex in the girl's locker room just a few weeks ago...we don't want to encourage more!

You know it is a sad state of affairs when your students *not even of legal age* get more action than you do...

 

[EJFan]

You know it is a sad state of affairs when your students *not even of legal age* get more action than you do...

i don't know about you, PTM, but i'm fairly certain that there are nuns who get more action than i do.

erika: the college i went to still does placement testing for incoming freshmen. in theory i think it's a good idea so that students don't take overwhelming classes in their first semester only to drop out from frustration and failure. however, i have to wonder why there are remedial courses available to those scoring poorly on that test... i mean, if you can't do basic algebra and can't write a decent essay that observes the simplest rules of grammar, then how in the blue hell did you even get into college in the first fucking place?

 

[pleasteasme]

i don't know about you, PTM, but i'm fairly certain that there are nuns who get more action than i do.

Uhh, yeah. Definately. I would consider doning the habit if I had a religion, lol!

 

[EJFan]

Uhh, yeah. Definately. I would consider doning the habit if I had a religion, lol!

i think sex is a fantastic habit (at least from what i've heard)... whether you have a religion or not.

 

[pleasteasme]

i think sex is a fantastic habit (at least from what i've heard)... whether you have a religion or not.

It is only a habit if it is something you get to do repetitively... *grrrrr* So far, not a habit