Editing question, commas

[thelastempress]

I am a comma abuser, although I am trying to reform my ways. I have a non-english major understanding of thier usage, for example, in presentation of clauses in some sentences.

also, I understand that commas can and often are used before the conjuncitons, such as , and, but, for, so, or and nor. Did I miss any?

I know that commas are also used in introductory sentences, such as: Yes, I know I need to edit my stories.
or
Well, I didn't realize what time it was.

Also in seperating dates or places, that sort of thing. I live in Random, Wisconsin.
I was born on Tuesday, November 9th.

Does anyone have any other advice or see any obvious things I am missing? I would be grateful for your imput!

 

[sr71plt]

If you want to learn to write for publication, you'll be using more commas in your work than if you are just writing to write (or even for a school paper). The trend if regular writing is away from commas, but publishers stick to "old" style comma usage in order for the writing to quite clearly show the reader where the sentence is going.

Some of the publisher guidelines that seem out of step with what you might have learned in school grammar classes include:

1. Publishers use the serial comma: Sidney, Murgatroid, and Snake.

2. Publishers quite strictly use commas to separate independent clauses ("A snake crawled into the bed while Sidney and Murgatroid were making love, and three weeks later Murgatroid filed for divorce and ran off with the snake."] and quite strictly don't use a comma to separate a dependent clause from an independent clause ("A snake crawled into the bed while Sidney and Murgatroid were making love and gave Murgatroid the thrill of her life.")

3. In common English, "which" can be used a lot of ways to introduce clauses, but publishers strictly use "which" to introduce an independent clause and always then set it off with a comma. And they strictly use "that" to introduce dependent clauses and never set those off with a comma.

4. Publishers do set off dates and states/countries as you note, but they set them completely off: "Murgatroid was abandoned by the snake in Racine, Wisconsin, in January, 2010, at high noon."

5. A comma is used in direct address. "Heavens to Murgatroid, Snake!"

6. There's a lot of confusion on how to treat relatives: "My wife Murgatroid ran off with a real snake." vs. "My wife, Murgatroid, ran off with a real snake." The first instance is restrictive and means Sidney is a bigamist (having more than one wife). If he only has the one wife, you need to set the wife's name off with commas (nonrestrictive).

7. Confusion reigns in the publishing world over when to use a comma on an introductory prepositional clause and when not to. That's because the Chicago Manual of Style is hazy on this point (6.25 and 6.26). If it's short (whatever that means. Maybe three words, not four words) and no pause seems needed when spoken, no comma is necessary. Otherwise set if off with a comma.

8. such terms as "etc.," "and so forth," "i.e.," "e.g.," and "et al." are always set off with commas (both sides if they are in the interior of a sentence).

9. When two or more adjectives of equal level modify a noun, they are separated by a comma: "the slinky, no-good, slimy snake."

10. When titles are in apposition, they are set off by a comma (and not capitalized): Sidney, the snake cuckold, went to Racine to pick up Murgatroid."

11. Dialogue is set off by commas: "I'm sorry, Sidney," Murgatroid whimpered, "but that snake was a real charmer."

Enough for now?

 

[thelastempress]

thank you for the excellent advice!

 

[palisa]

Excellent exposition.

My only quibble with your well-done list would be with "January, 2010." If commas in dates were really set off "completely," you'd also have to say "January, 4, 2010."

Books are all packed for a move, so I can't cite any sources or even look at how Random House or the other biggies do it.

 

[sr71plt]

Excellent exposition.

My only quibble with your well-done list would be with "January, 2010." If commas in dates were really set off "completely," you'd also have to say "January, 4, 2010."

Books are all packed for a move, so I can't cite any sources or even look at how Random House or the other biggies do it.

Right, not completely. January 4, 2010, is correct.

Chapter 6 in the Chicago Manual of Style gives a full rundown on punctuation in publishing style, including a long section on commas (6.18-6.56).

 

[AsylumSeeker]

A Reformed Comma Addict

I am a comma abuser, although I am trying to reform my ways. I have a non-english major understanding of thier usage, for example, in presentation of clauses in some sentences.

also, I understand that commas can and often are used before the conjuncitons, such as , and, but, for, so, or and nor. Did I miss any?

I know that commas are also used in introductory sentences, such as: Yes, I know I need to edit my stories.
or
Well, I didn't realize what time it was.

Also in seperating dates or places, that sort of thing. I live in Random, Wisconsin.
I was born on Tuesday, November 9th.

Does anyone have any other advice or see any obvious things I am missing? I would be grateful for your imput!

<Head hanging low in shame> Yes, my name is AsylumSeeker, and I'm a comma-holic... But I have been redeemed!

I do my own editing so I delete the excess and correct my tendencies on the re-read. A new technique I've instituted is using no commas at all when I write the first draft (saves keystrokes too) and then add only the ones I feel are necessary during the edit. I've never taken any college-level English so I'm not formally trained but I know what looks and sounds good, so I let that be my judge. That's good enough for Lit.

That's just my humble take on it, and I take it one day at a time <LOL>

 

[DracheDD]

Try this link.

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/commas.htm

Should help you for most, if not all, situations, but sr71 is right. Publishers tend to have their own preferences aside from or in addition to the "normal" rules.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Thanks!

Try this link.

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/commas.htm

Should help you for most, if not all, situations, but sr71 is right. Publishers tend to have their own preferences aside from or in addition to the "normal" rules.

Thanks, I'll save that to my Favorites. I can use all the help I can get, and it's even better if I have something to back me up besides "I think it should be this way."

 

[kimbalee]

AS: "I do my own editing so I delete the excess and correct my tendencies on the re-read. A new technique I've instituted is using no commas at all when I write the first draft (saves keystrokes too) and then add only the ones I feel are necessary during the edit. I've never taken any college-level English so I'm not formally trained but I know what looks and sounds good, so I let that be my judge. That's good enough for Lit.

That's just my humble take on it, and I take it one day at a time <LOL>"

Hey, that's a great idea, since I tend to, you know, use way too many, right? lol
I think I will put that into practice. Thanks.

 

[palisa]

Right, not completely. January 4, 2010, is correct.

Chapter 6 in the Chicago Manual of Style gives a full rundown on punctuation in publishing style, including a long section on commas (6.18-6.56).

That's right, of course, but I don't think you use a comma between month and year only.

I'm not a subscriber to the Chicago Manual of Style Web site, but in the Google search it has a fragment of 6.46, which appears to say the comma should be omitted. That was the quibble I mentioned in my first post, commenting on your "January, 2010."

 

[sr71plt]

That's right, of course, but I don't think you use a comma between month and year only.

I'm not a subscriber to the Chicago Manual of Style Web site, but in the Google search it has a fragment of 6.46, which appears to say the comma should be omitted. That was the quibble I mentioned in my first post, commenting on your "January, 2010."

Yep, you're right. 6.46 gives an example to that effect too. Thanks for the correction.

 

[snoopercharmbrights]

To find where you need commas, just read it aloud. Where you pause for a moment, put a comma. Where you pause for a little longer, put a full stop. Where you pause for breath, put a new paragraph. If you have access to Microsoft Reader (a free download from this page of Microsoft) have it read the words to you; that way you will spot the missing words and the typos.

 

[AsylumSeeker]

Damn, my secret's out. That's exactly right, a comma is a pause, which is why when I encounter them in editing the flow of the story is interrupted!

 

[AsylumSeeker]

It Would Make It Easier

AS: "I do my own editing so I delete the excess and correct my tendencies on the re-read. A new technique I've instituted is using no commas at all when I write the first draft (saves keystrokes too) and then add only the ones I feel are necessary during the edit. I've never taken any college-level English so I'm not formally trained but I know what looks and sounds good, so I let that be my judge. That's good enough for Lit.

That's just my humble take on it, and I take it one day at a time <LOL>"

Hey, that's a great idea, since I tend to, you know, use way too many, right? lol
I think I will put that into practice. Thanks.

Yes, I would like that, and it even could be a good learning tool. Write using no commas and I'll insert where I feel necessary. But then that would make my opinion the authority, which I have no right to claim.

Sigh. Maybe there is no good answer.