Rejection Due to Derivative Work

[WizardWhitebeard]

I've been working as a volunteer editor this year. I recently completed editing a story after which the author revealed that his story was "inspired" by another, published story.

I suggested he request permission from the original author. He did. But, of course, he received no reply.

I reviewed the two stories. Nothing is copied to the new story but they have a very similar plots.

I told him to attribute the original author/story and submit the publication.

It was rejected.

Because this is a derivative work of another author's creations, we require permission before submitting and let readers know in the intro to the story that you have such permission. If you cannot obtain permission from the author and are thus rewriting their work without their permission, we cannot accept this. Thank you for your understanding and we wish you all the best!
Please feel free to re-submit the story after a Volunteer Editor has examined it, or after you've made revisions. You can find a list of Volunteer Editors here.

As I am the editor, I'm not sure how to proceed. There must be a workaround or else we wouldn't have the very fine works of FTDS (I miss them).

Any suggestions?

 

[Rob_Royale]

So you want a work around to avoid rules that protect us from plagarism and you thought this would be a good place to ask about it?

 

[WizardWhitebeard]

Yep. If the answer is "can't be done," then I'll accept that. I'm all for supporting protecting the rights of writers. It's just that I've seen so many stories where "I tried unsuccessfully to contact the author," and the story got published.

I was disappointed that the author didn't reveal his "inspiration" until I had finished editing and he was poised for publication. I've exchanged half a dozen emails explaining the issues with him. He asked me to contact Laurel/Manu and the original author directly. I thought a discussion here was much more appropriate.

 

[Rob_Royale]

IMHO, it 'shouldn't be done'. I would walk away from the whole thing, in your shoes. The "writer" shouldn't have put you in this position.

 

[AlinaX]

If nothing is actually copied, I'm a little surprised it would get flagged. I'm wondering how exactly it said it was inspired by the other.

 

[TheRedChamber]

In some ways, by trying to act ethically, you may have made things worse. Having similar plots would probably not have been enough to get it kicked. Having the author says it's inspired by another work was probably enough to make Laurel wary of it.

The key question of course is...how similar?

If the text is different, the names are different but many of the beats are the same...we can probably tut at it, but it should be okay to publish. But then again, Laurel's alerted to it now.

 

[WizardWhitebeard]

Yes. The text is different. The names are different. Many of the beats are the same.

AlinaX, the attribution is:
My story is an adaptation based on “Fahima” by Tahrima Begum, which was originally posted on Literotica. The adaptation introduces different characters and plot elements while maintaining the spirit of original story.

I read both stories. New names, different text, (actually better writing), similar but not the identical story.

TheRedChamber:
My original advice was to obtain permission. Everything else was an attempt to proceed in the absence of said permission. I don't want to circumvent Laurel. I had hoped there might be some special exception for non-responsive authors. In the real world, lack of permission does not automatically abrogate copyrights.

I'd say I have exhausted my level of responsibility. I'm just sorry to have to say "no" after the effort (okay, selfishly mine) has been expended.

On to the next story...

 

[TheRedChamber]

Yeah, the critical word there is 'adaptation' which wouldn't be allowed under the rules. If it was just 'inspired by' I'm guessing it would have gone through.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

Nobody said anything about plagiarism. A lot of authors, including very famous ones, have rewritten well known stories. A lot of them have been inspired by stories written by others. Heck, read Grimm brothers' collected stories, and you'll see the same strand appearing over and over again. Look at the movies today -- they shamelessly copy-paste from other movies -- and give no credit. And those "original" stories? They were copy-pasted too. Think you'll plagiarize Dumas if you rewrite The Three Musketeers? He has rewritten an existing (and published) D'Artagnan story. And funnily, though Dumas was a hard working and talented writer, he did have a ghost writer -- who prepared and wrote the basic plot for many of Dumas' stories, The Three Musketeers included. Dumas was still doing his part, and filling in the spaces -- writing the fine dialogue and whatnot, but the actual story... that had many authors before him.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

I think we should remember that art is a collective endeavor. It won't work any other way. Also, imitation is the highest form of flattery.
I know it because I wrote a few original pieces and everybody told me they hated them.

 

[WizardWhitebeard]

I think that citing past offenses does not justify future malfeasance. There is nothing wrong (here) with writing a derivative work, sequel, etc. as long as the original author says "go ahead" either explicitly based on a request or in general at the end of his work (feel free to write your own sequel). The author that is the topic of this thread did not receive permission and is now looking at ways to weasel around the rules.

VerbalAbuse: You mean they hated you in the comments? I don't see any scores < 3 and you've got a couple of "hot" (>4.5) stories running. It's not my kind of thing but clearly someone likes your stuff.

 

[policywank]

In my humble opinion the original author does not owe a response and the lack thereof does not change the dynamics if the fact pattern indicates that publishing is not permitted. That would be a bit like me asking my neighbour to borrow his car and deciding that since he didn't respond it is ok to go ahead and take it.

However, I can see the scenario whereby it was a borderline matter and the request for permission a matter of courtesy and a way to bring clarity to an otherwise unclear situation. But most would probably say that simply by asking you indicated that you know it isn't a black and white matter, which would weaken your position if someone was to take issue with it later.

 

[WizardWhitebeard]

In my humble opinion the original author does not owe a response and the lack thereof does not change the dynamics if the fact pattern indicates that publishing is not permitted. That would be a bit like me asking my neighbour to borrow his car and deciding that since he didn't respond it is ok to go ahead and take it.

However, I can see the scenario whereby it was a borderline matter and the request for permission a matter of courtesy and a way to bring clarity to an otherwise unclear situation. But most would probably say that simply by asking you indicated that you know it isn't a black and white matter, which would weaken your position if someone was to take issue with it later.

Agreed. It makes you wonder how "Fan Fiction" even exists. The Literotica rule appears to cover only works published elsewhere on Literotica. But I wax philosophical. Not my circus. Not my rules.

 

[Bazzle]

I waited 6 months after messaging the original author of my rewritten story.
I then put this in the intro:-

"This story is based on an original story by Willcope published over 10 years ago. I reached out to Willcope regarding this story over 6 months ago but have got no response.

I have taken their ideas and thoughts of a twisted fetish-based ladies' academy and tried to expand it using my own fetishes. We don't pee unless we drink. The original is very much based on pee So they might as well be drunk. Naughty girls smoke. So these girls do too."

It got published.

 

[VerbalAbuse]

I think that citing past offenses does not justify future malfeasance. There is nothing wrong (here) with writing a derivative work, sequel, etc. as long as the original author says "go ahead" either explicitly based on a request or in general at the end of his work (feel free to write your own sequel). The author that is the topic of this thread did not receive permission and is now looking at ways to weasel around the rules.

VerbalAbuse: You mean they hated you in the comments? I don't see any scores < 3 and you've got a couple of "hot" (>4.5) stories running. It's not my kind of thing but clearly someone likes your stuff.

I wrote my pieces on lit because I could not find something that made sense to me. Especially the first story. I thought all the stuff on lit in that genre was wrong and unengaging -- especially with regard to realism. So I wrote something going against the norm -- something that could have been. Obviously, there's a reason why people walk the beaten path. If you stray out of it, you'll not be very popular. Chances are people will not understand you, never mind like you.

And with regard to this thread: if you walk the beaten path, many others had been on it before you. There'll be works very similar to yours.

 

[allenknott3]

I've been working as a volunteer editor this year. I recently completed editing a story after which the author revealed that his story was "inspired" by another, published story.

I suggested he request permission from the original author. He did. But, of course, he received no reply.

I reviewed the two stories. Nothing is copied to the new story but they have a very similar plots.

I told him to attribute the original author/story and submit the publication.

It was rejected.

Because this is a derivative work of another author's creations, we require permission before submitting and let readers know in the intro to the story that you have such permission. If you cannot obtain permission from the author and are thus rewriting their work without their permission, we cannot accept this. Thank you for your understanding and we wish you all the best!
Please feel free to re-submit the story after a Volunteer Editor has examined it, or after you've made revisions. You can find a list of Volunteer Editors here.

As I am the editor, I'm not sure how to proceed. There must be a workaround or else we wouldn't have the very fine works of FTDS (I miss them).

Any suggestions?

How do they know it was a derivative work? This is the problem with copyrights in general. I can take "Inspiration" from something else it does not mean it is a derivative work, in my opinion anyway. Like for example, how many stories used the same basic elements? It is just because it is reviewed automatically and not by a person. I had the same issue with literature before. I keep submitted it until it was accepted making small changes. Primary words to something similar.

 

[WizardWhitebeard]

His work was rejected as a derivative which he acknowledged was true to me. I don't know the method they use. We can assume they have the entire omnibus of Literotica committed to memory. A sophisticated AI does it. They have on staff an erotic gremlin. Who knows?

The story was a derivative but he wanted me to conspire with him to circumvent the rules. That irked me. Eventually, after this discussion thread, I declined. Without the feedback I would have declined. I was looking for the existence of a process of which I was unaware. After I told him "no" he continued to bounce ideas off of me to get his story published. Now I'm not his editor any more.