Edge play and safewords

[angela146]

I'm curious about techniques that people use to get closer and closer to true non-consent without actually getting there...

One of ours is my safeword (actually safephrase).

Currently, it's the name of the boy whom I first allowed to reach "second base" when I was in high school. If I want to safeword, I have to tell him the name and that's one of the few secrets I still keep from him.

That makes it more difficult for me to safeword. It isn't that I don't want to tell him the name; it's just that I have so few secrets left that losing this one would be an "end of an era". It's sort of a sentimental thing.

Anyone willing to share creative ways of making it harder to safeword?

 

[Netzach]

It's hard enough already.

One of my personal dislikes of safewords is that I've heard a million billion trillion slow down words and never a stop word.

Bottoms/subs etc. no matter how many times you tell them it's OK to end a scene usually fight it tooth and nail. I'll end a scene or de-escelate it if I think it needs to happen, it's not up to the bottom who is usually trying desperately to soldier on.

It's only lost me one bottom, but he was kind of an asshole.

 

[Kajira Callista]

It's hard enough already.

One of my personal dislikes of safewords is that I've heard a million billion trillion slow down words and never a stop word.

Bottoms/subs etc. no matter how many times you tell them it's OK to end a scene usually fight it tooth and nail. I'll end a scene or de-escelate it if I think it needs to happen, it's not up to the bottom who is usually trying desperately to soldier on.

It's only lost me one bottom, but he was kind of an asshole.

I think its part of who we are as sub/slaves is needing to show Master/Mistress what we are able to do because of them or for them. And when the trust is there to know that Master knows when playtime needs to be over i doubt a safeword will ever need to be used.

 

[James G 5]

I'm curious about techniques that people use to get closer and closer to true non-consent without actually getting there...

One of ours is my safeword (actually safephrase).

Currently, it's the name of the boy whom I first allowed to reach "second base" when I was in high school. If I want to safeword, I have to tell him the name and that's one of the few secrets I still keep from him.

That makes it more difficult for me to safeword. It isn't that I don't want to tell him the name; it's just that I have so few secrets left that losing this one would be an "end of an era". It's sort of a sentimental thing.

Anyone willing to share creative ways of making it harder to safeword?

wait a minute
first of all, if you have something SO threatening you feel you HAVE to safeword (which implies you're in a state where circumstances might have you less than rational), you are using something that complicated?
Second of all, how is it going to be effective if he doesn't know what it IS?
You're in the middle of play and suddenly you can't take any more and yell "John Smith" and he's just supposed to KNOW what you mean?
Sorry, this makes no sense, if I am misunderstanding you PLEASE correct me

 

[angela146]

Re: Re: Edge play and safewords

wait a minute first of all, if you have something SO threatening you feel you HAVE to safeword (which implies you're in a state where circumstances might have you less than rational), you are using something that complicated?

On my end, it's not complicated at all. It's two short words that I'm not likely to ever forget.

Second of all, how is it going to be effective if he doesn't know what it IS?
You're in the middle of play and suddenly you can't take any more and yell "John Smith" and he's just supposed to KNOW what you mean?

It's unlikely that I would yell out someone's name in the middle of an intense SM moment but if I did and he stopped (thinking it was my safeword) I would live with the accidental stoppage and we would both have a good laugh.

Sorry, this makes no sense, if I am misunderstanding you PLEASE correct me

No problem. I admit that this is idosyncratic. The purpose of my asking this was to see if we're truely unique or if other people are have done something similar.

(I apologize in advance for an extended ramble)

I'm essentially exploring how close I can get to non-consent without completely giving up control? In effect, can we create the *illusion* of non-consent.

As a metaphor, consider being on an intense roller-coaster. Once it starts, there is absolutely nothing you can do to stop it. There is no "emergency release" button. That adds a lot to the fear and intensity.

You can't really do that with SM because of simple human frailty.

OK, maybe we could. Maybe we could operate without any safeword. I'm just not ready for it (and neither is he).

Having said that, we don't do things that are all that physically threatening, largely because we've been together so long that he knows how to take me to an edge without needing to use physical extremes.

When I'm pushed "to the edge" it's usually not a "pain" edge, but more something psychological or the umpteenth orgasm in a row or a spanking where I'm crying so hard that I don't realize that he's not even swinging that hard any more.

Some Doms (my hubby included) are good at messing with the sub's mind and sustaining the sub at a point where she just "*can't stand* it anymore damn it!"

In fact I think the embarrassing safeword itself is part of what adds to the flavor for us. That's part of why I wanted to open the discussion, to see if other people used safewords creatively to add edginess without having to increase physical intensity.

Having said that, the reality is that I haven't actually safeworded in years.

[/ramble]

 

[angela146]

...And when the trust is there to know that Master knows when playtime needs to be over i doubt a safeword will ever need to be used.

i.e. like a fire extinguisher. I know where it is; I know how to use it but I probably never will.

 

[angela146]

...Bottoms/subs etc. no matter how many times you tell them it's OK to end a scene usually fight it tooth and nail. I'll end a scene or de-escelate it if I think it needs to happen, it's not up to the bottom who is usually trying desperately to soldier on...

Oh, but "desperately soldiering on" is a wonderful place to be.

Yes, it is difficult for the top, no question about it. Hopefully your sub appreciates you and tells you frequently.

 

[James G 5]

Re: Re: Re: Edge play and safewords

Originally posted by angela146
On my end, it's not complicated at all. It's two short words that I'm not likely to ever forget. [/B]

It's unlikely that I would yell out someone's name in the middle of an intense SM moment but if I did and he stopped (thinking it was my safeword) I would live with the accidental stoppage and we would both have a good laugh.

I guess my concern there is that it's 2 words you're not likely to forget but that he doesn't know, so what if he DOESN'T stop?
And given the discussion about how reluctant and stubborn subs are about stopping scenes, why add to it with the extra level of making it something that's even harder for you to do?

 

[catalina_francisco]

angela146,

Why have a safe-word in the first place if you make it something so hard to say that it is extremely unlikely you are ever going to use it?

We do not have a safe-word, we do not use it. We used to have a safe-word but by now we as a couple have outgrown the need for it.

Read about RACK that might be a direction you are moving towards.

http://www.io.com/~ambrosio/gen/rack.html

Francisco.

 

[James G 5]

angela146,

Why have a safe-word in the first place if you make it something so hard to say that it is extremely unlikely you are ever going to use it?

Thanks, that was my question to LOL

 

[Mr Blonde]

Re: Re: Re: Edge play and safewords

Originally posted by angela146

I'm essentially exploring how close I can get to non-consent without completely giving up control? In effect, can we create the *illusion* of non-consent.

One thing I have done is to have timed scenes where there would be no safewords or stoppages. Start off with small amounts of time such as a few minutes and then move up to lengthier sessions.

I have only had two relationships where we were comfortable enough with each other to use this approach. Standard comments about trust and compatibility apply.

Everyone is different, but if we were supposed to have a safeword/safephrase, I would not proceed into a scene without knowing exactly what I needed to be listening for. That is just me.

 

[Hecate]

With interest I have read the above posts and followed the discussion twist through different approaches - one key message though I think I read: safewords are already hard to use and some make it even harder...

... I am a Dominant, but I am simply human as well. I can not read minds, and even though I do trust in me and my abilities I am not a believer in me never misjudging a situation. My daily form varies and so does that of my submmissives.
What may have been right the day before may be wrong today or tomorrow... and the closer to the edge you play the more likely or more severe an error is bound to be imo.

That said, I must be sure - 100% without a trace of doubt - that my sub will use the safeword BEFORE getting desperate or freaked out, before a fear or apprehension gets a panic, a "maybe" a "never ever again".

I am a strong believer in safe, sane and consensual. If any damage occurs, mental or phsical I feel I have failed my sub - and my sub has failed me if the "safety line" isn't being pulled.

Using a safeword/safe gesture is as much part of truth, trust and honesty as is any other form of communication; which is one of my key demands. If I can not trust my sub to protect him/herself from me, to not even tell ME, the person closest to their hearts, bodies and souls when enough is enough, then what?

I am not advocating light use of the safewords, I am not asking to scream for a break every time a nose itches or the scene music isn't to the liking, etc. but before something that in the last instance shoud be fulfilling, inspering and empowering turns into something scary and damaging for BOTH parties involved it is indeed an appropriate means!

That all said, I haven't yet heard a safeword being spoken - but I have not gone as far at all times as I maybe could have & should have for being in doubt if the safeword wold be used if I did. So you see, specially for those into edge play it may be additional benefit to know reliably a safeword will be used rather a tick too early than too late, so that the caring Dominants among us dare taking you where you want to be taken - to the edge but NOT BEYOND!


... only speaking for herself,
Hecate

 

[catalina_francisco]

... only speaking for herself,
Hecate

Nice to see your wise words again Hecate. Hope all is well in your world and the new year is off to a great start. Take care.

Catalina

 

[dragonlace]

I haven't had to use my safeword as of yet but know its there and if it ever comes to it i know He trusts me to use it if absolutely necessary. I too find that i tend to think along the lines that if i have to safeword i am letting Him down in some way. But just as i trust Him not to harm me and to keep me safe, He also trusts me to use my safeword if i absolutely have to before it becomes earth shattering and damaging to both Him and myself.

I hope i will never have to use it but know also that He likes to push limits and see just how far it can go, and if it gets to a point where i know that continuing is going to hurt me either emotionally or physically i have to use my safe word or how will He ever know just how far He can go.

Its funny because usually just as i feel its getting close to the edge of that boundary He tends to slow things down and its comforting that He reads me so well but one never knows especially if He were to get into Dom Space and not realize it. Its just another little saftey precaution thats just there in case we need it, to keep us safe whether we need it or not.