Drug wars and guns and stuff

Todd-'o'-Vision

Super xVirgin Man
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Drug Wars

Being somewhat rigthwing, white fundamentalist one would expect the likes of me to be totally for the war on drugs. but guess what time to think again.

I seriously think that the current war on drugs is a waste of money and time, and counter productive 1000 fold or more.

--Statistically speaking soft{if drugs can be clasified as such} drugs{marijuana, shrooms, etc.} are not a disturbance drug. That is to say that those taking those drugs the worst thing that happens is they get the munchies. there hasn't been a columbine resulting from them, there hasn't been a gone postal worker from them, there hasn't been a government office manure spreading because of them, there hasn't been 7/11 robberies, there have been no hit and bump robberies from them.

Generally these drugs offer is victimless crime, that being the only one affected by thier comsumption is the one who consumes them.

However, porportionally more money is spent arresting chasing the victimless drug users of soft core drugs that damage to public cost from any damage that they might do.

In Canada, we are starting to come to our senses and soon marijuana will be legalized within the new year.

-Statistically the hardcore drugs, the ones crimes are read about from{cocaine, crack, meth, X, PCP, etc.} cause crimes only in the cases when the drugs are improperly prepared and the containment in conjunction with the drug cause a failure within the individual.

The reason these drugs are manufactured poorly is lack of time, fear of getting caught, and improper working conditions, most of which cause by the war on drugs, make something prohibitive and your demand is going to raise, see porn and booze for fine examples of which.

For the most part from any side {left or right} leaning scientific study clean properly prepared hard drugs have a low rate of violence as opposed to the fast, poorly, ill prepared drugs out there currently on the street.

--In conclusion of the war on drugs more money is spent focusing on the harmless drugs whilst the harmful is being semi neglected, but in the same hand the same war of drugs is making what drugs hard or soft available more dangerous that they need be. If money were placed in programs to legalize the drugs, proper production and slight taxation with in two years the money spent on 5 years of war on drugs would be renumerated 10 fold.

Peoplewill always have a habit or vice that is some sort of chemical dependancy whether it be cigarettes, booze or drugs it will there. the best thing instead of making it dangerous is find a way to make it a safer vice to be had by the individual and the community as a whole. Yes it will take money, and it will take time, but in the end it can be more beneficial for society financial and saafety as a whole.

Guns

- I personally don't have a gun and likely will never own a gun, but as long as guns are in the world I believe it is every persons right to have a gun for protection from those of lesser inhibitions and morals.

- I personally believe that by the time a child is in grade 7 there should be an optionary gun ownership and safetycourse if they ever plan on wanting a gun that they can take from grade 7/8 till grade 12. They must pass this entire program with a minimum 90% to ever qualify for ownership of gun.

- I personally believe that a person loses there gun right with a criminal activity regardless of wheteher the gun is involved or not related to the gun as well.

- I also believe that a person has to be a legal country resident for 3 years prior to gun owership as well as trained in gun saftey.

- Now I would love it if we lived in a perfect society with no criminal content but sadly that will never happen. Until there are no weapons on the planets or a lawlful officer of the law for every civilian on the planet, safety educated law abiding citizens deserve every right to own a gun.

Regardless of if the law abiding civilian has guns or not criminals will find guns and have them, statiscally most guns used in crimes are hand made or military stolen property, and not legally attained. So disallowing the law abider access to guns will not in the least reduce gun related crime if there are guns on the palnet or means to make one.

well that enough of that for now, its to hard to write original though and then type it out in semi legible type medium.

Todd
 
The majority of the kids responsible for Columbine,, and other similar incidents were taking legal perscription drugs... things like Prozac and Ritalin... hmmm.. makes you wonder...
 
Todd, both are great subjects to talk about. Both in the same thread though, is a little too much.

MHO about drugs. No matter how you label them drugs a bad and illegal. On the user end some of the "softer" drugs you mentioned are not very dangerous.

However, the problem above the users is the dealers. (I'm not blaming drugs for 9/11) Not all dealers sell just one drug, they sell a little of everything and usually go with profit margain and how easy it is to get from point "A" to "B".

Just a start, I'll have more later in the thread.
 
If the law enforcement agencies quite enforcing these laws, what would they do with all the left over time? :rolleyes:
 
CeceliaSkye said:
The majority of the kids responsible for Columbine,, and other similar incidents were taking legal perscription drugs... things like Prozac and Ritalin... hmmm.. makes you wonder...

So we blame drugs and not other factors? Lack of parenting, the bully factor, these kids were pushed and pushed and they finally let it out.
 
CeceliaSkye said:
The majority of the kids responsible for Columbine,, and other similar incidents were taking legal perscription drugs... things like Prozac and Ritalin... hmmm.. makes you wonder...


very true, but then again Prozac, Ritalin and other such drugs are drugs designed by governments for child of parents who don't perform parental duties properly, but thats a whole nother long winded post i coudl get into.


by the way hear your coice on the answering machine, very sexy
 
HeavyStick said:
So we blame drugs and not other factors? Lack of parenting, the bully factor, these kids were pushed and pushed and they finally let it out.

Of course there were other factors.. but the thread topic is about illegal drugs... hence the comparison..
 
HeavyStick said:
So we blame drugs and not other factors? Lack of parenting, the bully factor, these kids were pushed and pushed and they finally let it out.

That's right.

People want easy answers.

Some people don't want to admit that they were wrong in how they do things.

Some people don't care what's going on around them until it affects them personally.

It's nothing new.
 
Todd-'o'-Vision said:
very true, but then again Prozac, Ritalin and other such drugs are drugs designed by governments for child of parents who don't perform parental duties properly, but thats a whole nother long winded post i coudl get into.


by the way hear your coice on the answering machine, very sexy
Sorry I do not agree with this. When you have a child with difficulty and they are required to use those, then you might possible be able to make a statement like that. Heavy has a point, why not blame the manufactures of the drugs?
 
So we condone the actions of these kids because they were pushed? Being bullied in school doesnt give kids the right to take guns to school and shoot people. They chose that action and now they will have to live with what they have done.
 
Todd-'o'-Vision said:
very true, but then again Prozac, Ritalin and other such drugs are drugs designed by governments for child of parents who don't perform parental duties properly, but thats a whole nother long winded post i coudl get into.


I disagree.

Ritalin, when the kid has been properly diagnosed (not in 1 office visit) is an effective tool.

A very close friend of mine who has a stable marriage, no money problems, very intelligent parents. The son, 11, is into sports has decent grades. The parents regulate his medicine to the lowest possible dosage. I've seen this young man without meds. He is like a wind up toy with a tight spring. The medicine brings him into a calmer more level state.

Some parents may use this as a crutch. From what I have seen first hand. When diagnosed and properly used, it is very effective.
 
CeceliaSkye said:
Of course there were other factors.. but the thread topic is about illegal drugs... hence the comparison..

That's not even a fair comparison.

Let's compare foosball and water polo.
 
Originally posted by HeavyStick
Todd, both are great subjects to talk about. Both in the same thread though, is a little too much.

MHO about drugs. No matter how you label them drugs a bad and illegal. On the user end some of the "softer" drugs you mentioned are not very dangerous.

However, the problem above the users is the dealers. (I'm not blaming drugs for 9/11) Not all dealers sell just one drug, they sell a little of everything and usually go with profit margain and how easy it is to get from point "A" to "B".

Just a start, I'll have more later in the thread.

I was going to start two seperate headings but then i rememebr how ent out of shape some people get if i post more than a dozen threads a week.

Very true the problem above the user is the dealer and the producers but the probelm oabove them, in my opinion is unnesccessary crime laws, if you legalize, educate, properly produce, several things occur from my peresepctive.

-Production goes up
-Safety goes up
-Crime goes down
-Prices go down as availability goes up
-With taxation on them like booze and cigarettes, you then get an inflow into the budget instead of a pointless outflow of money focused wrongly.

Actually looking forward to reading more of what you have to say.
 
ShyQuietGal said:
So we condone the actions of these kids because they were pushed? Being bullied in school doesnt give kids the right to take guns to school and shoot people. They chose that action and now they will have to live with what they have done.


Times have changed.

School fights used to be fists, then knives. Unfortunately it evolved into an ugly level.

Every person here has limits of stress, and every person will react differently than another.

I'm not condoning the way the kids lashed out.
 
littlekateyes said:
Sorry I do not agree with this. When you have a child with difficulty and they are required to use those, then you might possible be able to make a statement like that. Heavy has a point, why not blame the manufactures of the drugs?

Attempting to go up against the Pharmaceutical Companies and the AMA would require a Herculean effort.. They happen to be one of the biggest lobbyists in Washington.. And have more power than God <no pun intended>

but this digresses from the original topic.. ;)
 
Todd-'o'-Vision said:
very true....Ritalin and other such drugs are drugs designed by governments for child of parents who don't perform parental duties properly, but thats a whole nother long winded post i coudl get into.

Unfortunately you are one of the uninformed people who have opinions about medications without basis in fact.

First Ritalin when prescribed for ADD/ADHD individuals, not only children but adults, works wonders for helping them with their behaviors and learning experiences.

Second although there may be a tendency to over prescribe drugs it may be the legitimate attempt to alter behavior towards a more normal and acceptable standards of todays's society.

Yes some parents want a quick fix for problems that they can not or do not want to deal with.
 
Originally posted by littlekateyes
Sorry I do not agree with this. When you have a child with difficulty and they are required to use those, then you might possible be able to make a statement like that. Heavy has a point, why not blame the manufactures of the drugs?

Littlekateyes,

I am not saying that the drugs don't have there place for kids who need, but presently in society there is too much of a push by docotrs wanting the quick buck and parents wanting a quick solution in getting thier kids on these drugs.

Though I have no children of my own I have worked with problem children and taken care of them short term {3-6 months} and most of them when the problem was looked at I got them off of those drugs gave them the positive constructive attention they needed and deserved 8 out of ten never needed the drugs again, the 2 or three that did, had actually problems that needed the drugs were able to eventual dose down as the problems were found and dealt with.
 
Todd-'o'-Vision said:


-Production goes up
-Safety goes up
-Crime goes down
-Prices go down as availability goes up
-With taxation on them like booze and cigarettes, you then get an inflow into the budget instead of a pointless outflow of money focused wrongly.

Actually looking forward to reading more of what you have to say.


I've done quite of bit of Law Enforcement. (No rental cop bs)

Hypothetically speaking, how is the public supposed to be protected from people who over indulge in "new legal drugs"?

Field sobriety THC tests? How do you even come up with a test for it? (making it economically feasible).

Regulating drugs will open up lawsuits. Many of them. Some against the government.

I believe some drugs should have reduced sentences.

Marijuana: As a user with less than an ounce. Monetary fine. No jail time. EVER

Drugs that have a higher mortality rate should have penalties assigned to them respectively.
 
Todd-'o'-Vision said:
Littlekateyes,

I am not saying that the drugs don't have there place for kids who need, but presently in society there is too much of a push by docotrs wanting the quick buck and parents wanting a quick solution in getting thier kids on these drugs.

Though I have no children of my own I have worked with problem children and taken care of them short term {3-6 months} and most of them when the problem was looked at I got them off of those drugs gave them the positive constructive attention they needed and deserved 8 out of ten never needed the drugs again, the 2 or three that did, had actually problems that needed the drugs were able to eventual dose down as the problems were found and dealt with.
I understand, and thank you.
 
ShyQuietGal said:
So we condone the actions of these kids because they were pushed? Being bullied in school doesnt give kids the right to take guns to school and shoot people. They chose that action and now they will have to live with what they have done.

I don't believe I said anything about condoning the childrens violent actiosn or giving them guns to take to school with them.

let me go reread my post and get back to you, to see if I did.
 
Here's some other consumer end worries.

Insurance for cars will go up. Medical insurance will definitely go up.

Hotels. Smoking, Non Smoking, and Special Smoking. not many smokers will want to be in a room after marijuana.

Stores. Some stores will sell paraphernalia related to the new legal drugs. What kind of objections will they receive from mainstream America?
 
Originally posted by HeavyStick
I've done quite of bit of Law Enforcement. (No rental cop bs)

Hypothetically speaking, how is the public supposed to be protected from people who over indulge in "new legal drugs"?

Field sobriety THC tests? How do you even come up with a test for it? (making it economically feasible).

Regulating drugs will open up lawsuits. Many of them. Some against the government.

I believe some drugs should have reduced sentences.

Marijuana: As a user with less than an ounce. Monetary fine. No jail time. EVER

Drugs that have a higher mortality rate should have penalties assigned to them respectively.

I think over indulgence would be likely to go down, with wider availaibility, but would alos combine that with your suggestions of reduced sentences{see I am not dogmatic on things I am open to suggestion and ideas}.

From my understanding from what I just went through to get life insurance portable cheap THC and drug tests are already available. The agent tested me for cocaine, , marijuana and acid {the three big one in this area} in under 5 minutes without taking any blood.
 
Todd-'o'-Vision said:
I think over indulgence would be likely to go down, with wider availaibility, but would alos combine that with your suggestions of reduced sentences{see I am not dogmatic on things I am open to suggestion and ideas}.

From my understanding from what I just went through to get life insurance portable cheap THC and drug tests are already available. The agent tested me for cocaine, , marijuana and acid {the three big one in this area} in under 5 minutes without taking any blood.



Alcohol is legal and is commonly over indulged. Mixing alcohol with THC would happen legally. How is probable cause set up for THC testing?

How were you tested without giving blood? I'm very interested in this. Can you tell me the department that has this?
 
bknight2602 said:


First Ritalin when prescribed for ADD/ADHD individuals, not only children but adults, works wonders for helping them with their behaviors and learning experiences.
part of the problem with America is that we look for easy solutions to complex situations. Sure, give Johnny a pill to modify his behavior instead of taking time to understand his behavioral problems. The manufacturers are getting rich off our laziness. Kids dont need pills, they need love and attention.
 
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