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Dropping Foreign Language

Complaining and just walking away aren't the same thing. Putting a barrier between the writer and the reader isn't one of the highest assurances of success on the part of the writer. But, of course, do as you like--and live with the result.
 
RubenR said:
But I have added words and short sentences of Amharic (First language in Ethiopia) in some of my stories, and not always with the translation, to emphasize the lack of understanding of the main character, and I never got complaints about that.
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If an author dropped in a phrase or two of a language I didn't know, I'd make the effort to translate. Google Translate might not give the nuance, but it will give an idea of the meaning at least; and I'd assume the writer did it for a reason.
 
I have tried to address the issues raised, not engage in personal attack. If a writer is good with raising barriers between themselves and the reader by including unexplained material, especially foreign phrases that suggest the writer may be superior to the reader, this is one of the ways to do that. I think that point is clear enough. It is, I think a valid point in writing guidance. It doesn't require a personal attack on me.
 
KeithD said:
Complaining and just walking away aren't the same thing. Putting a barrier between the writer and the reader isn't one of the highest assurances of success on the part of the writer. But, of course, do as you like--and live with the result.
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Statistically speaking, your stories are the least liked of every forum regular that's posted recently.

People can troll down scores, but they can't remove favorites, or comments and you get very few.

Between pen names you have over 1,000 stories in one category, but have never made it on the popular author list or top lists for anything other than being prolific.

So maybe, just maybe, you're not the one to be taking the high and mighty tone of what people should or shouldn't do here.

You come to threads like this acting like the author should care about the reader while any other time you denigrate the readership here most likely as a result of my first point.

And all your claims of greatness outside of this forum...mean fuck all in this forum which is why you yammer about them because people can't go see for themselves whether its true or not

But they can here, and should.
 
Ah, more personal attack by my very own stalker here for the last ten years. ;)
 
electricblue66 said:
If an author dropped in a phrase or two of a language I didn't know, I'd make the effort to translate. Google Translate might not give the nuance, but it will give an idea of the meaning at least; and I'd assume the writer did it for a reason.
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I always try to figure it out by context if its just a couple lines, like a little test, but if there doesn't seem to be an obvious gist to it, I'll look it up.
 
In a series I'm writing some of the characters speak in "the old tongue"...I never say what that is, and I guess I do it the cheap way, putting the dialogue in English, but with "she spoke in the old tongue so the others wouldn't understand"

Then again when I'm making up the language I guess that can work.

I've tossed in that they speak in ancient Sumarian...I don't know if google can translate that:eek:
 
I don't accept that whether or not I or anyone else reads the stories at Literotica has any relevance to the issues here. It's just the basis for a personal attack. We've just had a thread where most of the Literotica author respondents have said they personally read few if any of the Literotica stories themselves. That has no bearing on a writer maintaining a connection with the reader.
 
I would be interested in a thread asking how many Lit authors care what Keith thinks.

Could be illuminating. Then he could live with the results of his behavior, one way or another, with perfect clarity.
 
Ah, another hurt vulture swoops in. :)

Perhaps you'd like to join the discussion of unexplained material dropped into a story. No? Just here to backbite?
 
AwkwardMD said:
I would be interested in a thread asking how many Lit authors care what Keith thinks.

Could be illuminating. Then he could live with the results of his behavior, one way or another, with perfect clarity.
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Personally, I care what he has to say.
I also care what those who disagree with him have to say.
I take the advice people give that fits with my style and discard the rest.
For example, in the past, he has given me some good advice on how, as an editor, to handle submissions that aren't in line with either my style or level of comfort. Keep.
When it comes to barriers we writers put up between us and the reader, I disagree, as I feel that not every story is, or should be, tailored to a general audience. Discard.

When it comes to the OP, I think that so long as the foreign language is in service to the story, I can go with it, as that's my personal style.
But at the end of the day, we all write what we want to write, so tell the story YOU want to tell.
 
On these boards, we have several non-native English speakers who write fantastic stories in English for the benefit of those who don't understand anything else.

It's hard to imagine Finnish, German, or Hindi-speaking writers asking one another "if I include a few words of English in my story, will that lose me readers?"

Monolingual English speakers don't realise how spoiled we are. The rest of the world makes huge efforts to communicate in the only language that we understand, and then we complain when just occasionally we're expected to deal with a few words in some other tongue.

Are there readers here who will be alienated if, just once in a while, I use a foreign-language phrase that they could easily drop into Google Translate? Undoubtedly.

Does it bother me if those people don't read my story? Not really.

But I'm willing to offer a full cash refund.
 
Huh, lot to think about. I'm going to thank everyone for your input and varied perspectives, then slink away into the night because I seem to have stumbled into a hornet's nest.

Bonne nuit, mes collègues auteurs!
 
Bramblethorn said:
Monolingual English speakers don't realise how spoiled we are. The rest of the world makes huge efforts to communicate in the only language that we understand, and then we complain when just occasionally we're expected to deal with a few words in some other tongue.

Are there readers here who will be alienated if, just once in a while, I use a foreign-language phrase that they could easily drop into Google Translate? Undoubtedly.

Does it bother me if those people don't read my story? Not really.

But I'm willing to offer a full cash refund.
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Exactly. Almost every non-positive comment I get on my stories is basically a complaint that I write in British English and the reader found it too hard to understand. And that's after making efforts to ensure more colourful phrases are clear from context. My last story had an American protagonist who I did mainly by writing the story then removing most interesting phrases from his dialogue, putting in some sure, okay, and honey instead. I did the whole thing in a few hours so I'll put more effort into the sequel!

Surely there's an American version of the phrase "really gets on my tits/wick", which a reader kindly informed me no American would ever say, though apparently the rest was OK?
 
Kumquatqueen said:
<snip>
Surely there's an American version of the phrase "really gets on my tits/wick", which a reader kindly informed me no American would ever say, though apparently the rest was OK?
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Where I grew up (Utah, 1970s/1980s) “really gets on my tits” would’ve been perfectly understood. It wasn’t common, per se, but used regularly enough that most of my cohort would have no issue with it. Now, the fact that the population was 80% LDS meant ‘hard’ swearing was, oh, frowned on. Like the ‘F’ word (well, ‘frick’ was popular.)

So phrases that weren’t quite so obviously strong (like frick) were well used.

But “really gets on my wick”? No. You’re on your own there.
 
PennameWombat said:
But “really gets on my wick”? No. You’re on your own there.
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Come to Australia and light a candle. My wife uses that expression often, she got it from her parents who were both English born and bred. I don't use it myself, but it's not unusual - people know what it means. You have to be a Brit, though.
 
Kumquatqueen said:
Exactly. Almost every non-positive comment I get on my stories is basically a complaint that I write in British English and the reader found it too hard to understand. And that's after making efforts to ensure more colourful phrases are clear from context. My last story had an American protagonist who I did mainly by writing the story then removing most interesting phrases from his dialogue, putting in some sure, okay, and honey instead. I did the whole thing in a few hours so I'll put more effort into the sequel!

Surely there's an American version of the phrase "really gets on my tits/wick", which a reader kindly informed me no American would ever say, though apparently the rest was OK?
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I write Australian, and I've only once had some comment or other that was a moan. And that was about something set in the 5th Century AD, so go figure!

Where I grew up, being "off my tit" had the same meaning as "off my face", where copious amounts of dope were involved. When I moved to Canberra every smoker from other states had other expressions. The bloody Mexicans** used to cut their weed with tobacco, which gave me the shits no end, because I only smoked dope.

** Mexicans = Victorians. South of the border, gettit?
 
electricblue66 said:
Come to Australia and light a candle. My wife uses that expression often, she got it from her parents who were both English born and bred. I don't use it myself, but it's not unusual - people know what it means. You have to be a Brit, though.
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I’m an American who’s lived and worked in Australia off and on since 2002, and full time since 2017.

And I’ve still never heard the phrase. Nor has my Sydney-born wife. It was her grandparents on both sides who came Down Under from England (3) and Germany (1) so I guess just too far removed. Or the wrong places.

Maybe I’ll survey my soccer teammates next weekend. I’m the only Yank on the team, but we have a German, a Brit and and an Irishman in addition to the Aussies.
 
KeithD said:
Ah, another hurt vulture swoops in. :)

Perhaps you'd like to join the discussion of unexplained material dropped into a story. No? Just here to backbite?
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I walk the walk. That kind of content is all over my stories. My worlds are multi-cultural, multi-colored, and multi-lingual. One of mine has a character who speaks entirely in Singlish, and the feedback I get suggests he's everyone's favorite character.

But also, everyone should just have Keith on ignore. This "I listen to everyone" nonsense gives people who are patently toxic and overt bullies a platform and an audience. Don't fall victim to the slippery slope fallacy (look it up of you don't know what I mean). Nobody needs his nonsense, and our lives would be much richer for the silence.
 
PennameWombat said:
Where I grew up (Utah, 1970s/1980s) “really gets on my tits” would’ve been perfectly understood. ...
But “really gets on my wick”? No. You’re on your own there.
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Ah, good to know. I had 'tits' originally but then removed most of the American guy's swearing (being a nice young man in a foreign country on his best behaviour) and figured the minced oath ('wick' version) would be more likely than gratuitous use of tits. Clearly not.

A large proportion of my commenters and followers are Australian, presumably because there's much less of a language barrier.

Now ElectricBlue - I can guess what you mean by 'light a candle', but it's not a phrase.ive heard in that kind of context.

I do use 'off my tits' meaning 'off my face' on any substance. Love the use of Mexicans to mean them lot south of the border - I've heard it in Northern Ireland and possibly Scotland.
 
I think "gets on my tits" would go just fine in the American South. It's reminiscent of "Kiss my grits," which is pure southern speak. "Kiss my wick" would be understood after a few seconds, but only if spoken by a male.
 
KeithD said:
Just here to backbite?
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Ironic from the person who says he never reads lit stories, but constantly posts in the feedback forum to attack he people who did read the story and are giving feedback...usually telling them they have no right to give feedback.

In a feedback forum, to a person asking for it.

You don't read the stories here, you don't start threads or conversations, but you have something nasty to say about everyone and every topic.

Shame the site won't wake up and do something about the writing forums biggest troll, instead they'd rather let you continue to pollute and ruin every thread you post on.

That's not a back bite, that's fact, just too bad more people won't say it
 
Kumquatqueen said:
Ah, go
Now ElectricBlue - I can guess what you mean by 'light a candle', but it's not a phrase ive heard in that kind of context.

I do use 'off my tits' meaning 'off my face' on any substance. Love the use of Mexicans to mean them lot south of the border - I've heard it in Northern Ireland and possibly Scotland.
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"light a candle' ... 'wick' ... My daughter would roll her eyes, but if she made a (bad) pun it would be okay. It's a rule, apparently.

Does the Mexicans thing mean Scots are Canadians?
 
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