Drama vs Melodrama

[Hypoxia]

I've been musing on approaches to writing. I've mentioned some of mine:

1- Define setting, characters, and a few plot points, then set the players free to act.
2- Plot-out an entire storyline (like a sculpture armature) and fill in needed details.
3- Visualize an ending, then grow the setting, players, and plot to reach that point.

I'm now considering melodrama. One view hold that melodrama "consistently displays 'key constitutive factors': pathos, overwrought or heightened emotion, moral polarization (good vs. evil),[unbalanced opinion] non-classical narrative structure (e.g., use of extreme coincidence and "deus ex machina"), and sensationalism (emphasis on action, violence, and thrills)." And, "Movie director Sidney Lumet stressed the primacy of plot... 'In a well-written drama, the story comes out of the characters. The characters in a well-written melodrama come out of the story.'"

In Lumet's terms, my method (1) seems to be drama, and methods (2+3) are melodrama. Are strokers merely erotic melodramas? What about you -- do you grow stories from characters, or characters from stories, or both, or neither? Do you aim to be melodramatic? Discuss.

 

[Hard_Rom]

melodrama "consistently displays 'key constitutive factors': pathos, overwrought or heightened emotion, moral polarization (good vs. evil),[unbalanced opinion] non-classical narrative structure (e.g., use of extreme coincidence and "deus ex machina"), and sensationalism (emphasis on action, violence, and thrills)."

http://forum.literotica.com/forumdisplay.php?f=4

 

[sr71plt]

Hmmm. I mainly just sit down at the computer and start typing.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

In Jim World melodramatic erotica is driven by the biggest cocks and biggest boobs and Olympian sex with screaming and groaning...its all histrionic like vaudeville acting.

With the other lovers get off merely being near each other. Its never happened in any LIT story. With LIT stories its always Tarzan wrestles Hillary.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I think my work generally starts as a vignette, some little event seen or experienced, which defines a small part of a character, and goes from there. So in that sense, a character waiting for a story.

I rarely plot ahead of writing, not in detail anyway, so what does that make mine? Once a story gets going, I just write what my characters do, and follow along. If I'm on a roll, they take over and write themselves. Sometimes the direction of a story turns on a dime, "where the hell did that come from?".

Using JBJ's definitions (concise as always) I probably err on the side "of being near to each other". Someone once said of my writing, "you're so intimate i just want to leave them be and close the bedroom door." Which I take as compliment - I'm probably not your kind of writer, Noir.

I wonder if drama vs melodrama, in Lit's context, is the same debate as erotica vs porn? Don't know, just putting it out there.

 

[NicoleZ]

"Movie director Sidney Lumet stressed the primacy of plot... 'In a well-written drama, the story comes out of the characters. The characters in a well-written melodrama come out of the story.'"

Drama = Dickens' "Hard Times"
Melodrama = Shakespeare's "MacBeth"

Hmm...

1- Define setting, characters, and a few plot points, then set the players free to act.
2- Plot-out an entire storyline (like a sculpture armature) and fill in needed details.
3- Visualize an ending, then grow the setting, players, and plot to reach that point.

In Lumet's terms, my method (1) seems to be drama, and methods (2+3) are melodrama. Are strokers merely erotic melodramas? What about you -- do you grow stories from characters, or characters from stories, or both, or neither? Do you aim to be melodramatic? Discuss.

Interesting topic!

Using this terminology I'd say that irrespective of method used; 1, 2 or 3, if you find that the story panned out exactly as you foresaw, it's melodrama. But if upon completion you find that the story you have written is not the one you set out write, per the above definitions it is drama.

When it comes to the question of strokers, if they are melodrama, would it really matter if it is Jane and Ewen as written or could they be exchanged for Keira and Matthew without there being any difference except for the change of names?

 

[Hypoxia]

When it comes to the question of strokers, if they are melodrama, would it really matter if it is Jane and Ewen as written or could they be exchanged for Keira and Matthew without there being any difference except for the change of names?

The Wikipedia link above starts: "A melodrama is a dramatic or literary work in which the plot, which is typically sensational and designed to appeal strongly to the emotions, takes precedence over detailed characterization. Characters are often simply drawn, and may appear stereotyped."

Jane and Ewen and Keira and Matthew can be interchangeable cartoons. Fanfic and celeb pr0n obviously depend on such cartoons -- we've no need to detail their known personas. Any stereotypes can be cartoons: BBC, BBW, alpha male, bi slut, domme and sub, Latin Lover, wittol, sissy-boi, bull dyke, rich bitch / clique queen, etc. The names alone tell us all we need to know. Plot? They fuck. And again. Repeat as needed.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I think my work generally starts as a vignette, some little event seen or experienced, which defines a small part of a character, and goes from there. So in that sense, a character waiting for a story.

I rarely plot ahead of writing, not in detail anyway, so what does that make mine? Once a story gets going, I just write what my characters do, and follow along. If I'm on a roll, they take over and write themselves. Sometimes the direction of a story turns on a dime, "where the hell did that come from?".

Using JBJ's definitions (concise as always) I probably err on the side "of being near to each other". Someone once said of my writing, "you're so intimate i just want to leave them be and close the bedroom door." Which I take as compliment - I'm probably not your kind of writer, Noir.

I wonder if drama vs melodrama, in Lit's context, is the same debate as erotica vs porn? Don't know, just putting it out there.

Remember, I was a head shrinker, and we aim for exact.

In my world histrionic people are melodramatic. because what they do is acting.

I'm reading Charles Dickens (Great Expectations), so who knows what I like.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Just found this:

MELODRAMA is drama without cause and effect. I call that acting.

 

[NicoleZ]

Just found this:

MELODRAMA is drama without cause and effect. I call that acting.

Shouldn't that have been the adjective (to be) MELODRAMATIC; acting in a manner calculated to cause a scene for its own sake? And in the case of a "highly dramatic scene", who judges whether or not there is cause for it, i.e. if it respectively isn't or is melodrama? What then is politics except melodrama; scenes deliberately created without justifiable cause in the hope of creating an affect, or in the case of those targeted, no effect?

 

[NicoleZ]

The Wikipedia link above starts: "A melodrama is a dramatic or literary work in which the plot, which is typically sensational and designed to appeal strongly to the emotions, takes precedence over detailed characterization. Characters are often simply drawn, and may appear stereotyped."

Jane and Ewen and Keira and Matthew can be interchangeable cartoons. Fanfic and celeb pr0n obviously depend on such cartoons -- we've no need to detail their known personas. Any stereotypes can be cartoons: BBC, BBW, alpha male, bi slut, domme and sub, Latin Lover, wittol, sissy-boi, bull dyke, rich bitch / clique queen, etc. The names alone tell us all we need to know. Plot? They fuck. And again. Repeat as needed.

QED, you have made your case. And woe betide the writer who cheats the reader of his (or her, albeit more rarely) melodrama by trying to create a piece of drama!

 

[Black_and_White_Writer]

I think my work generally starts as a vignette, some little event seen or experienced, which defines a small part of a character, and goes from there. So in that sense, a character waiting for a story.

I rarely plot ahead of writing, not in detail anyway, so what does that make mine? Once a story gets going, I just write what my characters do, and follow along. If I'm on a roll, they take over and write themselves. Sometimes the direction of a story turns on a dime, "where the hell did that come from?".

Using JBJ's definitions (concise as always) I probably err on the side "of being near to each other". Someone once said of my writing, "you're so intimate i just want to leave them be and close the bedroom door." Which I take as compliment - I'm probably not your kind of writer, Noir.

I wonder if drama vs melodrama, in Lit's context, is the same debate as erotica vs porn? Don't know, just putting it out there.

Pretty much all 'erotica' here is porn.

Anything by say 'Stormbringer' BBC, Slut wives etc (rinse repeat) is porn.

Lady Chatterley's Lover is erotica.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Pretty much all 'erotica' here is porn.
.

Well I'm stuffed then. I don't write porn (not my definition anyway), and you've just dismissed me with this blanket statement.... I have to disagree, there is some good erotica here. It's buried pretty deep, I agree, but it's here

 

[ElectricBlue]

Remember, I was a head shrinker, and we aim for exact.

There's your problem, right there. You're dealing with human beings, and the only sure thing with people is, there is no exact. No black or white, it's all shades of grey. We're all on a broad spectrum, thank Christ. Otherwise I'd be like you and you'd be like me. The world can't deal with that!

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Shouldn't that have been the adjective (to be) MELODRAMATIC; acting in a manner calculated to cause a scene for its own sake? And in the case of a "highly dramatic scene", who judges whether or not there is cause for it, i.e. if it respectively isn't or is melodrama? What then is politics except melodrama; scenes deliberately created without justifiable cause in the hope of creating an affect, or in the case of those targeted, no effect?

I took 'my' definition of melodrama from a dictionary.

I made my living judging people, and once qualified as an expert witness at court for my opinions of what human actions, affect, and moods are. Your MELODRAMATIC is what I call HISTRIONIC. Melodrama exists to manipulate. Melodrama is artificial.

 

[TxRad]

I took 'my' definition of melodrama from a dictionary.

I made my living judging people, and once qualified as an expert witness at court for my opinions of what human actions, affect, and moods are. Your MELODRAMATIC is what I call HISTRIONIC. Melodrama exists to manipulate. Melodrama is artificial.

In your opinion and that only counts as much as the rest of the people. Oh and I'm glad to meet you Dr. Phil. Expert witnesses don't have to be experts. They just have to parrot what the Lawyers tell them to.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

There's your problem, right there. You're dealing with human beings, and the only sure thing with people is, there is no exact. No black or white, it's all shades of grey. We're all on a broad spectrum, thank Christ. Otherwise I'd be like you and you'd be like me. The world can't deal with that!

You might be amazed how similar people are. God packs diverse prizes in his Cracker Jack bags, but its all Cracker Jack.

 

[ElectricBlue]

You might be amazed how similar people are.

Not 100% convinced by that. I've got a coupla psych profiles (the 500 cross-related forced decision question types, how long do you take to respond, Tec...with an numeracy literacy thing chucked in) that tell I'm a 1 percenter on a number of attributes. Which means 99 out of 100 people don't have a clue how I think. That explains a lot. It also means I don't have a clue about the 99%.

I am in the middle of the bell curve on other things though - data set some 50,000 western management execs (American, European, British, Australian, Canadian) who have sat the same tests. Being the same as most people most of the time? That's where my 1% matters!

 

[NOIRTRASH]

Not 100% convinced by that. I've got a coupla psych profiles (the 500 cross-related forced decision question types, how long do you take to respond, Tec...with an numeracy literacy thing chucked in) that tell I'm a 1 percenter on a number of attributes. Which means 99 out of 100 people don't have a clue how I think. That explains a lot. It also means I don't have a clue about the 99%.

I am in the middle of the bell curve on other things though - data set some 50,000 western management execs (American, European, British, Australian, Canadian) who have sat the same tests. Being the same as most people most of the time? That's where my 1% matters!

I don't post to sell anything. I'm the original I DONT CARE BEAR. I love sugar cane syrup, my wife says its shit, I say she don't gotta eat it. But my opinion of cane syrup is carved upon Mt.Rushmore, because its true to me.

Experts, such as you and me, disagree all the time.

When I became a larval psychologist bacl in 1967, gay was a mental illness and moms caused schizophrenia and sugar made kids hyperactive. One famous psychiatrist usta beat up his patients, to make contact with them. Reach out and touch someone. Paradigms change. But you can bet the farm that people come in two flavors: girl and boy.

 

[NicoleZ]

You might be amazed how similar people are.

IIRC my basic courses in psychology correctly there are only nine types of individuals. Of course the loaf can be sliced even thicker as in "What motivates us: Power, Glory or Ideal/Mission" and "How do we achieve our aims: "Copy/mimic, hard work or outright lies/theft" which together form the grid for these nine basic types. IF I remember what I once studied somewhere around the time that Columbus discovered the Americas.

 

[NicoleZ]

I took 'my' definition of melodrama from a dictionary.

I made my living judging people, and once qualified as an expert witness at court for my opinions of what human actions, affect, and moods are. Your MELODRAMATIC is what I call HISTRIONIC. Melodrama exists to manipulate. Melodrama is artificial.

Which only serves to illustrate that there is no such thing as a common language, only what linguists call "idiolects" (the sum of each and every separate individual's vocabulary, pronunciations and grammar). This explains why even if we use morphemeologically identical words we still manage to consistently misunderstand each other as we do not attribute identical semantic content to the concepts that words symbolise.

 

[NicoleZ]

psych profiles

There are so many of those, most of them developed in the wake of WW II by psychologists roped in by the US Army during the war to work out where individuals were best used and to avoid, if possible, the psychological traumas experienced during WW I, "shell-shock" in particular. The only interesting thing about those is that unless set in the context of human interactions, and in some cases those where we have assumed certain roles within organisations, they are pretty meaningless. More interesting is that if within the framework of a given group a certain personality type is missing, one of the others will, temporarily and within the framework of that particular group, assume the attributes of the missing personality type.

The salient point in relation to writing is: Does intimate knowledge of the MBTI (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator) and/or Blake-Newton make me a better writer or does being a certain type (examples: ENTJ/P or Producer) make me a better writer?

 

[ElectricBlue]

The only interesting thing about those is that unless set in the context of human interactions, and in some cases those where we have assumed certain roles within organisations, they are pretty meaningless. More interesting is that if within the framework of a given group a certain personality type is missing, one of the others will, temporarily and within the framework of that particular group, assume the attributes of the missing personality type.

Yes that's the context for the profile tests I took - recruitment agencies trying to find the "best fit." One of my one percents says I have a very very low need for any kind of esteem bestowed on me by others (ie, I don't care at all what other people think about me). I suspect Noir and I have that in common. Another one is my ability to bounce back from adversity, "high psychological resilience" apparently. I suspect these two are linked.

 

[NOIRTRASH]

I took almost every psychological test there is. I know me totally, plus I have 67 years of life experiences, much of it dangerous and challenging. I have a huge fund of education. Yet people find every reason and any reason to hate my guts. My own mom tried to murder me when I was 3. Sp my attitude about for kissing asses is fuck you. If you don't like me, OK; I dont like niggers, fags, and girls. Your way works for me, too.

 

[Haulover]

...
But you can bet the farm that people come in two flavors: girl and boy.

Cue an indignant response from pilot...

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