Don't shoot the submissive

[Assertive_Dom]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Dommes and Doms,

Having flown into Sydney late last night from a course I was attending in Melbourne I found myself unable to sleep and so thought I’d try applying some of what came out of said course to the world of D/s and BDSM (funny how with just a bit of imagination next to anything can become pervertable). Whilst what your about to read was originally intended for training dolphins, the same principles are readily applicable to training the behaviours of any beast (inc. submissives). Whilst I might find myself once again without a sub to try these out on I’m sure I’ll hear back from someone willing to experiment on their submissive in terms of the applicability of these behavioural change principles. They are in order of most aversive to least aversive.

1. Shoot the submissive
Submissive is displaying an undesirable behaviour? Shooting subbie will, with a 100% success rate, ensure that said behaviour in not repeated. Of course, inherent to this option is a range of possible legal consequences for Dom/me hence you might wish to overlook this option. However, another take on shooting the submissive is to expel the submissive from your service or to terminate the relationship in which the submissive serves you. Again, you not going to be witness to subbies undesirable behaviour if they’re not around to perform the undesirable behaviour. OK, maybe you’ve got an emotional investment tied-up in the sub and might not want to resort to such drastic measures.

2. Punishment
Oh, we all know this one! We come home one evening to find submissive masturbating vigorously, pleasing itself without our permission! Punishing the behaviour should go some way towards elimination of the behaviour. So, strap your sub to your nearest cross beam, take up your flogger and show them who REALLY controls their genitals!

3. Negative reinforcement
In “Don’t Shoot the Dog: The New Art of Teaching and Training”, K. Pryor (1999) defined negative reinforcement as the removal of an aversive stimulus. Sleep deprivation for subs found sleeping on the job might count as a negative reinforcer. The important point is to eventually allow the sub to get their rest showing that you are a strict; but merciful Dom/me.

4. Extinction
OK, lets go back to our masturbating submissive, shall we? If they insist on pleasing themselves then fine, let them go. But they’d best not be getting any ideas in their heads that we’re going to want to play with them whilst that behaviour continues! The fundamental aspect of this principle is that whilst we’re ignoring the behaviour, we’re also NOT rewarding the behaviour.

5. Training an incompatible behaviour
This is an interesting one. The submissive who is engaged in manual labor should really be too busy to be playing with themselves! Getting them to do something which makes it impossible to perform the undesirable behaviour is a good example of training an incompatible behaviour. Perhaps everytime subbie starting thinking they want to please themselves they could be trained to ask permission to please their Dom/me instead?

6. Putting behaviour on cue
Another interesting one. For the sake of consistency I’ll stick with our masturbating submissive. Walking into the kitchen I find her on the floor with her 240 volt pleasure toy vibrating away madly! I tell her that in future, she can ONLY use that toy whenever I click my fingers. I’ll even train her to do it by clicking my fingers and positively reinforcing her when she masturbates on cue. So how’s this stopping the behaviour? After having made the psychological connection between me clicking my fingers and her being allowed to please herself – I NEVER CLICK MY FINGERS AGAIN!!! No more masturbating subbie!

Dommes, whilst I’ve used a femsub in the example, I’m sure you can see the evilness in applying this principle to any of your boys or girls.

7. Shaping the absence of unwanted behaviour
This is less interesting and pretty much lacking in all evil fun. In this principle of behavioural change we’re rewarding our submissive for NOT displaying the undesirable behaviour. Subbie hasn’t touched themselves once today? Perhaps they’ve earn’t a Scoobie snack.

8. Change motivation
I’d call this one “The thinking Dom/mes method of behavioural change”. Again, totally lacking in all evilness, its altogether too “nice”. This principle of behavioural change encourages us, as tops, to ask ourselves “why does my submissive feel the desire to do behaviour XYZ?”. Are they masturbating because they don’t feel as if they’re getting enough booty in the relationship? Is subbie not doing household choirs because they don’t feel appreciated or what? Think about what motivates your submissive to perform the undesirable behaviour and act on it.

The course I was at really didn’t have anything to do with behavioural change in animals. But we were challenged to apply these behavioural change principles to humans (in a non-BDSM non-D/s context). However, I’m sure my experience of finding a way to pervert next to anything that comes my way isn’t unique and all you Tops out there are inclined to do the same on the occasion

- Charles

(I published this article in an Australian BDSM magazine earlier this year and have been asked to share it with you folk).

 

[english vicky]

Glad to see you posted it!!

I was grateful to have this shared with me, I enjoyed the humour and thought you might too...hope you like it!

Vicky

 

[Technodivinitas]

Ladies and Gentlemen, Dommes and Doms,

1. Shoot the submissive
Submissive is displaying an undesirable behaviour? Shooting subbie will, with a 100% success rate, ensure that said behaviour in not repeated. Of course, inherent to this option is a range of possible legal consequences for Dom/me hence you might wish to overlook this option. However, another take on shooting the submissive is to expel the submissive from your service or to terminate the relationship in which the submissive serves you. Again, you not going to be witness to subbies undesirable behaviour if they’re not around to perform the undesirable behaviour. OK, maybe you’ve got an emotional investment tied-up in the sub and might not want to resort to such drastic measures.

This is certainly a worst case scenario, and I'd consider it similarly to my view on Capital Punishment: Certainly there are people who are no longer valuable or appropriate to live in human society, and they should be removed, perhaps terminally. However, punishment to me implies teaching a lesson, and someone who's dead will not learn from the experience, nor will a subbie removed from service altogether.

2. Punishment
Oh, we all know this one! We come home one evening to find submissive masturbating vigorously, pleasing itself without our permission! Punishing the behaviour should go some way towards elimination of the behaviour. So, strap your sub to your nearest cross beam, take up your flogger and show them who REALLY controls their genitals!

3. Negative reinforcement
In “Don’t Shoot the Dog: The New Art of Teaching and Training”, K. Pryor (1999) defined negative reinforcement as the removal of an aversive stimulus. Sleep deprivation for subs found sleeping on the job might count as a negative reinforcer. The important point is to eventually allow the sub to get their rest showing that you are a strict; but merciful Dom/me.

I'd always believed that direct (and immediate) punishment was negative reinforcement- can you elaborate on the difference?

4. Extinction
OK, lets go back to our masturbating submissive, shall we? If they insist on pleasing themselves then fine, let them go. But they’d best not be getting any ideas in their heads that we’re going to want to play with them whilst that behaviour continues! The fundamental aspect of this principle is that whilst we’re ignoring the behaviour, we’re also NOT rewarding the behaviour.

Again- I would consider this a variant of neg. reinforcement... "If you do X, you get no affection/attention."

5. Training an incompatible behaviour
This is an interesting one. The submissive who is engaged in manual labor should really be too busy to be playing with themselves! Getting them to do something which makes it impossible to perform the undesirable behaviour is a good example of training an incompatible behaviour. Perhaps everytime subbie starting thinking they want to please themselves they could be trained to ask permission to please their Dom/me instead?

Unfortunately, in raising a child or in training a submissive, one would have to keep them busy for some 16-18 hours a day, since (and I'm an example of this type of sub myself,) the sub doesn't begin the behavior because of boredom but rather distraction- they are drawn away from such productive activities as the Top provides. I was contemplating this last night at 2:00am, while packing my Master's lunch- I caught my mind looking for shortcuts, and even for ways to excuse not performing the task at all, despite my conscious will and desire to serve my Master & please him.

6. Putting behaviour on cue
Another interesting one. For the sake of consistency I’ll stick with our masturbating submissive. Walking into the kitchen I find her on the floor with her 240 volt pleasure toy vibrating away madly! I tell her that in future, she can ONLY use that toy whenever I click my fingers. I’ll even train her to do it by clicking my fingers and positively reinforcing her when she masturbates on cue. So how’s this stopping the behaviour? After having made the psychological connection between me clicking my fingers and her being allowed to please herself – I NEVER CLICK MY FINGERS AGAIN!!! No more masturbating subbie!

All I can say here is, good luck with that. Might work with dolphins, but I think it would require an extremely suggestive subbie to implement this strategy, and such an extremely suggestive sub would likely to be even more receptive to other forms of training. Conversely, I can see this kind of posative opperant behaviorism working well in tandem with posative and negative reinforcement techniques. (I've always believed that Pos. & Neg., despite some behaviorists' claims, compliment one another perfectly, and would virtually double training rate, in the case of all but the most insecure or the most egotistical subjects.)

7. Shaping the absence of unwanted behaviour
This is less interesting and pretty much lacking in all evil fun. In this principle of behavioural change we’re rewarding our submissive for NOT displaying the undesirable behaviour. Subbie hasn’t touched themselves once today? Perhaps they’ve earn’t a Scoobie snack.

I disagree that it lacks in Evil-potential. Since on at least some level, the submissive craves domination/subjegation or they wouldn't be in the relationship, a Top could apply this by offering as a reward those delicious indignities which reinforce submission- Humiliating rewards, or painful ones, so long as the Top stresses the "praise/reward" demeanor in delivering it, eg; "Since you've been so very good, I will let you kiss my boots." Of course, unless you're trying to mindfuck your sub, you'd have to apply only things which are not otherwise used as punishments.

8. Change motivation
I’d call this one “The thinking Dom/mes method of behavioural change”. Again, totally lacking in all evilness, its altogether too “nice”. This principle of behavioural change encourages us, as tops, to ask ourselves “why does my submissive feel the desire to do behaviour XYZ?”. Are they masturbating because they don’t feel as if they’re getting enough booty in the relationship? Is subbie not doing household choirs because they don’t feel appreciated or what? Think about what motivates your submissive to perform the undesirable behaviour and act on it.

I think this would be best applied only in 24/7 relationships, or those that are similarly bent toward deep and serious structural and behavioral change in the submissive. (Not to suggest that occasional or part-time training methods are not serious, only that a heavier relationship is more inclined to concern itself with the permanent, posative restructuring of the submissive's entire interaction with the real world and their day to day lives.)

The course I was at really didn’t have anything to do with behavioural change in animals. But we were challenged to apply these behavioural change principles to humans (in a non-BDSM non-D/s context). However, I’m sure my experience of finding a way to pervert next to anything that comes my way isn’t unique and all you Tops out there are inclined to do the same on the occasion

Now you've totally peaked my interest at least... animal behavioral training as applied to humans, but not in any way D/s-focused...? May I even ask? Might you even answer if I did?



- Charles

(I published this article in an Australian BDSM magazine earlier this year and have been asked to share it with you folk).

Great overview- I'd love to hear more detail about your ideas of application!

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Re: Re: Don't shoot the submissive

The course I was at really didn’t have anything to do with behavioural change in animals. But we were challenged to apply these behavioural change principles to humans (in a non-BDSM non-D/s context). However, I’m sure my experience of finding a way to pervert next to anything that comes my way isn’t unique and all you Tops out there are inclined to do the same on the occasion

Now you've totally peaked my interest at least... animal behavioral training as applied to humans, but not in any way D/s-focused...?

Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string and place a set of stairs underneath it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the other monkeys with cold water. After awhile, another monkey makes the attempt with the same result - all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon, when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will prevent it.
Now, put away the cold water. Remove one monkey from the cage and replace that monkey with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all the other monkeys attack him. After another attempt and another attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another one of the original monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. the previous newcomer takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm! Likewise, replace a third original monkey with a new one, then a fourth, then the fifth.

Everytime the newest monkey takes to the stairs, he is attacked. Most of the monkeys that are beating him have no idea why they are not permitted to climb the stairs or why or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. After replacing all of the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, no monkey ever again approaches the stairs to try for the banana.

Why not?

Because as far as they know, that's the way it's always been done around here.

And that, my friends, is how company policy begins.

And if you think the anonymous quote doesn't infect corporate life, try introducing an efficiency improving policy that goes in the face of "how it's always been done."

 

[Assertive_Dom]

Hi Technodivinitas.

Let me respond to some of your queries and concerns.:

"This is certainly a worst case scenario, and I'd consider it similarly to my view on Capital Punishment: Certainly there are people who are no longer valuable or appropriate to live in human society, and they should be removed, perhaps terminally. However, punishment to me implies teaching a lesson, and someone who's dead will not learn from the experience, nor will a subbie removed from service altogether."

There's always at least one person who will take the first point too seriously. I wouldn't seriously recommend shooting ANYONE! The point that I was trying to make was that Dom/mes needn't be shooting themselves in the foot by terminating a perfectly good D/s relationship. Imperfection can be fun sometimes.

"I'd always believed that direct (and immediate) punishment was negative reinforcement- can you elaborate on the difference?"

Based on the traditional methods of classical and operant conditioning - yes, your quite right. However, all psychological theories must evolve and oftentimes we're forced to deconstruct our existing theories. Consequently, I'm proposing something that we probably all already know, that physical punishment of a submissive is only one of MANY options available to a Dom/me. The problem is, too many novice Dom/mes (and novice sub's) seem to miss this point and come into the scene thinking that domination is quasi-violent activity. Effective and efficent domination can be achieved through a variety of methods.

"Again- I would consider this a variant of neg. reinforcement... "If you do X, you get no affection/attention.""

Again, I agree. This is SIMILAR to negative reinforcement and to punishment....but not the SAME.

"All I can say here is, good luck with that. Might work with dolphins, but I think it would require an extremely suggestive subbie to implement this strategy, and such an extremely suggestive sub would likely to be even more receptive to other forms of training. Conversely, I can see this kind of posative opperant behaviorism working well in tandem with posative and negative reinforcement techniques. (I've always believed that Pos. & Neg., despite some behaviorists' claims, compliment one another perfectly, and would virtually double training rate, in the case of all but the most insecure or the most egotistical subjects.)"

Yep, agree. In fact, we had many discussions about how we'd apply the pinciple of "putting a behaviour on cue" to humans. And here in Australia, we had lots of discussion about how this principle could SERIOUSLY be applied to a sub. It was a nice theory (at least I liked it); but I don't believe anyone would have seriously gotten it to work.

As for the combination of positive and negative reinforcement - DEFINATLY! Pure negatives don't go down well with anyone. And if you only use positives, I think your in the the long haul. I recommend to people using as many behavioural options as possible! Just be consistent though in their aplication. Don't punish a behaviour one day and then reward it the next. If I think my sub has really pushed herself to the limit, then I'll pamper her as a reward. Its my way of saying, "Good girl! I saw how hard you tried and I want to see you do that again".


- Charles

 

[rosco rathbone]