Domme... the wrong word...

[angela146]

Is it just me, or do other people have a problem with the word "Domme".

If you are truly dominant, why does your title have a diminutive?

It’s the same problem I have with “actress”, “aviatrix” and the worst-case scenario: “dominatrix”.

It implies that women aren’t “real” actors, aviators or dominants. Women are “assistants” or “the female almost-equivalent of…”

 

[Kajira Callista]

Is it just me, or do other people have a problem with the word "Domme".

If you are truly dominant, why does your title have a diminutive?

It’s the same problem I have with “actress”, “aviatrix” and the worst-case scenario: “dominatrix”.

It implies that women aren’t “real” actors, aviators or dominants. Women are “assistants” or “the female almost-equivalent of…”

I do think that Domme is an online created word meaning dominant femme. Dom/me was how it was supposed to be...evolved to Domme

 

[JupitersGirl]

Those words don't strike me that way at all. To me it merely adds gender to the term, like fiance, fiancee.

 

[angela146]

Re: Re: Domme... the wrong word...

I do think that Domme is an online created word meaning dominant femme. Dom/me was how it was supposed to be...evolved to Domme

"Dome/me" seems even worse.

"Oh, well, I suppose women can be dominant too... well here, darling, we'll add this little ending on the word for you so you won't feel left out. Of course, we all know you're a girl and not a real dom."

But... if the implication is that a domme is a woman or man in a prissy little dress (June Cleaver with a whip) ... OK, I'll go along with that because it's a femme "playing" at being dominant

 

[Kajira Callista]

Re: Re: Re: Domme... the wrong word...

"Dome/me" seems even worse.

"Oh, well, I suppose women can be dominant too... well here, darling, we'll add this little ending on the word for you so you won't feel left out. Of course, we all know you're a girl and not a real dom."

But... if the implication is that a domme is a woman or man in a prissy little dress (June Cleaver with a whip) ... OK, I'll go along with that because it's a femme "playing" at being dominant

I think you missed the point...its a made up word to explaain a dominant female. you cant see dominants online and maybe some would like to know the gender of the dominant they speak to? I dunno...i just call the ones i know Ma'am

 

[BlueSugar]

I think women need to make up their minds.

First we want equality, then we want our own words to be different from the "male" terms and now we feel that now we have alternative words for the female gender .. we aren't happy with them.

Though, I feel a dominant is a dominant why do we need dominatrix, dom/me, domme? Women can be just as Dom as the next guy ... maybe we need a tiny tad bit of help here and there giving that extra hard spanking, but we have tools, we've evolved !!

Did dominant need a fem. like Master is to Mistress? I suppose so, because we like to catagorize ourselfs and add titles to help communicate what and who we are, just like there are slaves and submissives (etc)

the gay community too... fag, gay, flaimer, bisexual, dyke, lipstick, lesbian...lets not forget the newly developed metrosexual catagories for the straight people that want in... hehe. ((and I'm sure there are more))

oi, so many titles... why do we have to be all touchy and complex, why can't things be simple again?

 

[angela146]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Domme... the wrong word...

I think you missed the point...its a made up word to explaain a dominant female.

Do dominant females need explaining?

It was the "male advantage" thread that got me thinking about it. I got to thinking that female dominants tend to go out of their way to make themselves less dominant and it might be part of the reason that I don't feel dominated by "dominant" women.

you cant see dominants online and maybe some would like to know the gender of the dominant they speak to?

That's a more general problem of knowing the gender of anyone online. I figure that's part of choosing a username. ('Angela146' for example, is a bit of a giveaway)

I dunno...i just call the ones i know Ma'am

Now that works for me since it isn't a diminution of a masculine word.

If I were to actually use the word "ma'am" with a woman (other than as a courtesy to an equal) that would be an inidication that I was being submissive with her...

 

[angela146]

I think women need to make up their minds.

First we want equality, then we want our own words to be different from the "male" terms and now we feel that now we have alternative words for the female gender .. we aren't happy with them.

Yes. In my case, I don't want any of the feminine words applied to me unless I being submissive.

If I chair a committee, I'm "the chair" not "the chairwoman".

Though, I feel a dominant is a dominant why do we need dominatrix, dom/me, domme? Women can be just as Dom as the next guy ... maybe we need a tiny tad bit of help here and there giving that extra hard spanking, but we have tools, we've evolved !!

Exactly.

Did dominant need a fem. like Master is to Mistress? I suppose so, because we like to catagorize ourselfs and add titles to help communicate what and who we are, just like there are slaves and submissives (etc)

No, we don't, not in a dominant role. As a submissive, that's a whole different story.

the gay community too... fag, gay, flaimer, bisexual, dyke, lipstick, lesbian...lets not forget the newly developed metrosexual catagories for the straight people that want in... hehe. ((and I'm sure there are more))

Don't get me started...

oi, so many titles... why do we have to be all touchy and complex, why can't things be simple again?

Were they ever simple? I sure don't remember it...

 

[BlueSugar]

quote:
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oi, so many titles... why do we have to be all touchy and complex, why can't things be simple again?
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Were they ever simple? I sure don't remember it...

+++

it used to be easier to have a conversation with someone about rock and roll and not have to go into the rock, metal, death metal, heavy metal, hair metal, 80s metal, grunge, industrial metal, industrial...punk rock, punk, real punk music, emo, ska .... There was a rock/R&B section and now those two have split up in stores to about 15 catagories... its a pain in the ass to shop for music espically if the world (stupid people) think that one band is "metal" when it is really "death metal" and its sitting in the industrial section. ::shrugs::

oops... sorry about the tangent... i'm having a problem with us as a species needing to put a name on everything, and sticking it in a catagory ... if we have the only language that completly contradicts itself and is the toughest to learn, what makes us think we can properly put things in the right catagories and name everything correctly??!!

ok I promise, thats the end of it.

 

[angela146]

quote:
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oi, so many titles... why do we have to be all touchy and complex, why can't things be simple again?
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Were they ever simple? I sure don't remember it...

+++

it used to be easier to have a conversation with someone about rock and roll and not have to go into the rock, metal, death metal, heavy metal, hair metal, 80s metal, grunge, industrial metal, industrial...punk rock, punk, real punk music, emo, ska .... There was a rock/R&B section and now those two have split up in stores to about 15 catagories... its a pain in the ass to shop for music espically if the world (stupid people) think that one band is "metal" when it is really "death metal" and its sitting in the industrial section. ::shrugs::

Maybe this is a generational thing. I was too young to be shopping for music in the 1970's and early '80s.

oops... sorry about the tangent... i'm having a problem with us as a species needing to put a name on everything, and sticking it in a catagory ... if we have the only language that completly contradicts itself and is the toughest to learn, what makes us think we can properly put things in the right catagories and name everything correctly??!!

Um... actually the French and Germans are having the same problems. Both countries have "language commissions" that are beginning to wrestle with the fact that many feminine words are either diminuative or worse. For example, what is the non-purjoritive French word for a single adult woman? What is the German word for an adult single woman?

Both languages have an assumption that adult women are married.

ok I promise, thats the end of it.

Why?

 

[angela146]

Those words don't strike me that way at all. To me it merely adds gender to the term, like fiance, fiancee.

I actually used the term fiance (pronounced fee-ANSE) before we were married to refer to my intended. I can't count the number of times I had to explain that it was the masculine form of financee.

Just for fun, I think I'd like to try using the term "Naval Aviatrix" in the presence of a female fighter pilot. I wonder how long it would take before I was launched from one of the catapults.

 

[peterbrazen]

rose

A rose is still a rose. . . having said that, I have found that it doesn't matter what the word is but rather how it is said and meant when with the other person. Dominant men are Doms and women are Dommes and what does it matter what they are called? It doesn't matter and that is my point.

 

[BlueSugar]

Maybe this is a generational thing. I was too young to be shopping for music in the 1970's and early '80s. Um... actually the French and Germans are having the same problems. Both countries have "language commissions" that are beginning to wrestle with the fact that many feminine words are either diminuative or worse. For example, what is the non-purjoritive French word for a single adult woman? What is the German word for an adult single woman?

Both languages have an assumption that adult women are married.Why?

I'll continue about the m/f titles but the music tangent is over.

I'm almost tired of the femanist movement, its wonderful and all, and they "give us what we want," but some of the renamings are a little silly, its powerful and all... but sometimes I enjoy taking a title that 'was' male. Head Chair (person/man) , not chair women was thrown out there before ...

I sadly laugh when words are spelt with a "y" where the "e" in men is.
womyn for example. Its nice to be our own and lose the connection that we are created from their rib... but is all this really necessary?

 

[angela146]

I'm almost tired of the femanist movement, its wonderful and all, and they "give us what we want," but some of the renamings are a little silly, its powerful and all... but sometimes I enjoy taking a title that 'was' male. Head Chair (person/man) , not chair women was thrown out there before ...

"Chairperson" is OK but it's almost never used by a man.

I actually like it when a man uses the phrase "Madam Chairman". It has a real submissive feel to it despite the mixed genders. Not that I need or expect that. It just tickled me to hear it once in a while.

I sadly laugh when words are spelt with a "y" where the "e" in men is.
womyn for example. Its nice to be our own and lose the connection that we are created from their rib... but is all this really necessary?

No, not for women with any kind of self-confidence.

I think I was in highschool when Betty Boothroyd (sp) took over as speaker of the Brittish House of Commons. They showed a clip of her on the news where someone asked, "What do we call you?". Her answer: "You may call me 'Madam'."

She was the 'old fashioned' kind of female dominant: very much like a schoolmarm. Although the 600+ members of the house, mostly men, seemed to behave themselves pretty well. She had an attitude that made you think she kept a cane in her office "just in case".

 

[James G 5]

I think the only thing worse than all of this mindless obession with genderfication was the Politically Correct movement to abolish all gender
I still think the most egregious example of this had to do with the people who bring you your food in restaurants
"Waiter" and "Waitress" were no good because they weren't gender-neutral
"Server" was no good because it demeaningly made the person sound like a servant
So some idiot suggeted the term "waitron"

Oy

 

[FungiUg]

I'm almost tired of the femanist movement, its wonderful and all, and they "give us what we want," but some of the renamings are a little silly

Hmm. Actually, I believe you are referring more to the "politically correct" movement than the "Feminist" movement.

Admittedly, I am not an avid follower of the feminist movement. But I do believe that there are many aspects to that movement, and that blaming name changes on feminism is a little left of target.

Some of the name changes, on the other hand, I do agree with. Why do we need a waiter and a waitress? A waiter is a non-genderised term... why do we need a genderised version for just women?

Personally, if a woman is happy being a Domme, then all well and good. If she prefers to be a Dom, then so be it. I have no issue with the concept that Dom is non-genderised.

However, when it comes to sex, gender is important! Generally people want to know whether you are male or female, so having two terms that refer to dominant male and dominant female make sense.

I'm not sure if I would agree that Domme is a diminutive. After all, Dom is a diminutive of Dominant, so that would make Domme an extension of a diminutive.

Instead of changing Domme to just Dom as a non-genderised term, perhaps we need a few other terms? Dom as non-genderised, and perhaps Doml as a dominant male? Domme as a dominant female? Dome as a small hill, or something you use to fasten clothing? Domu as a non-specific-gender Dominant? Emu as a large flightless bird?

 

[A Desert Rose]

I think the only thing worse than all of this mindless obession with genderfication was the Politically Correct movement to abolish all gender....

Oy

Amen!

 

[angela146]

I think the only thing worse than all of this mindless obession with genderfication was the Politically Correct movement to abolish all gender
I still think the most egregious example of this had to do with the people who bring you your food in restaurants
"Waiter" and "Waitress" were no good because they weren't gender-neutral.

"Waiter" *is* gender neutral if you use it that way. Most reasonable women would be fine being called "waiters". The "-er" suffix is fine as a "person who does something."

It's a little different when the word has "-man" at the end.

...Oh, and don't even think about the phrase "serving wench" unless I'm wearing one of those frilly white blouses that show the grand canyon of cleavage.

"Server" was no good because it demeaningly made the person sound like a servant

In my world, servers are connected to a network.

So some idiot suggeted the term "waitron"Oy

That's an android that serves food.

 

[lark sparrow]

Is it just me, or do other people have a problem with the word "Domme".

If you are truly dominant, why does your title have a diminutive?

It’s the same problem I have with “actress”, “aviatrix” and the worst-case scenario: “dominatrix”.

It implies that women aren’t “real” actors, aviators or dominants. Women are “assistants” or “the female almost-equivalent of…”

I don't have a problem with Domme and don't see it as a diminutive. It doesn't imply that a Domme is less than a Dom to me at all. Gender neutral is fine with me. Gender specified is fine with me. But it's about gender, not realness, again, to me. Dominant is non-gender specific... well, for some. Some people identify with and are proud of their gender, some people want that in the background.... whatever works for them. The only thing I don't "like" about the feminist movement as seen by some, is the need to have the same opinion - equality or solidarity does not always render itself into being homogenized to my way of thinking.

 

[FungiUg]

That's an android that serves food.

And very ably describes some of the waitrons in the restaurants here!

 

[angela146]

... However, when it comes to sex, gender is important! Generally people want to know whether you are male or female, so having two terms that refer to dominant male and dominant female make sense.

... Instead of changing Domme to just Dom as a non-genderised term, perhaps we need a few other terms? ... Dome as a small hill, or something you use to fasten clothing?

"Dome" in this case is a sexual term? I'd never though of having sex with a small hill... or do you mean on a small hill?

... Emu as a large flightless bird?

If you can get an Emu to hold still long enough, be my guest...

 

[MastrJ]

I don't see Domme as a diminutive. I can see someone being extra prickly and interpreting Mademoiselle or Fraulein as being diminutive forms of Madam and Frau. The German world for girl is Maedchen. The -chen suffix IS a diminutive suffix that is still used in common speech. Another problem with -chen is that it takes the definitive article Das in German, which is the neuter gender.

Dominatrix has a older root. The -trix ending was used in Latin to differentiate between genders. You spoke of a Gladiator or a Gladiatrix. One thing that English speakers seem to forget is that most other European languages have specific gender classes for their words. Older forms of English had them as well. The difference is that the English language dropped gender-based definitive articles a long time ago, but we still conceive of words needing a gender-based differentiation.

Even though culture influences language and vice-versa, I don't feel that these conscious changes of language will ever have any real effect. I've seen the change-over from stewardess to flight attendant. No real point in it. steward is apt and appropriate for a male while stewardess was appropriate and apt for a female. To use one of the other examples mentioned earlier, I personally prefer the term 'Chair' when in a formal meeting. The person in charge of the meeting isn't relevant. Their position as head of the meeting is.

I'm a role-player. (Dungeons and Dragons, etc.) Since the early 90's, starting with White Wolf's Vampire: The Masquerade, gaming companies have begun substituting the personal pronoun she in situations when referring to a character or player unless that character or player has specifically been noted to be a male. It's not a problem, and I don't care, but it seems a little silly. I also don't feel these companies have actually made this change in an effort to be 'diversity minded'. These changes have been made in the hopes they may be able to gain more female players than they've had in the past. This may have worked, as I've noticed a large number of new female players joining the ranks of geekdom since the release of Vampire, but it may also be that the game Vampire had a better appeal to women than Dungeons and Dragons as a first game.

Just my thoughts.

 

[FungiUg]

So the genderised terms should be Dominator and Dominatrix?

 

[MastrJ]

Yep. I don't have my Latin books handy, but that would fit.

 

[James G 5]

And very ably describes some of the waitrons in the restaurants here!

Would you like fries with that?