Domestic Abuse

destinie21

Daddy's Brat
Joined
May 27, 2003
Posts
3,612
why is it that even when you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that things aren't right you stay? Why do women and men too I suppose, who are smart and experienced allow themselves to fall victim to the person they love or fear? (in most cases both love and fear.) why is it so damn hard to get away, even when you know that if you don't it might just kill you one day. Why can't the police do anything about a verbal threat? why does everything always have to come to a head before they want to help? why can someone beat the fuck out of you and be out on bail three hours later to do it again? Why can't the police understand that you won't call them after the second time because what's the point? It just exasperates the situation and unless the person is going to be locked up for a while in the end constant calls to the police won't mean a damn thing but a worse beating? Most of all why does any of this happen
 
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destinie21 said:
why is it that even when you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that things aren't right you stay? Why do women and men too I suppose, who are smart and experienced allow themselves to fall victim to the person they love or fear? (in most cases both love and fear.) why is it so damn hard to get away, even when you know that if you don't it might just kill you one day. Why can't the police do anything about a verbal threat? why does everything always have to come to a head before they want to help? why can someone beat the fuck out of you and be out on bail three hours later to do it again? Why can't the police understand that you won't call them after the second time because what's the point? It just exasperates the situation and unless the person is going to be locked up for a while in the end constant calls to the police won't mean a damn thing but a worse beating? Most of all why does any of this happen

My question is why stay? Since the situation you describe would be at least ameliorated by locking up the aggressor, money cannot be the real root of the problem. It puzzles me.
 
Sorry, I want to contribute to this thread but rather than saying the obvious I want to share this song....

Behind the wall - Tracy Chapman

Last night I heard the screaming
Loud voices behind the wall
Another sleepless night for me
It won't do no good to call
The police
Always come late hey
If they come at all

Last night I heard the screaming
Loud voices behind the wall
Another sleepless night for me
It won't do no good to call
The police
Always come late hey
If they come at all

And when they arrive
They say they can't interfere
With domestic affairs
Between a man and his wife
And as they walk out the door
The tears well up in her eyes

Last night I heard the screaming
Then a silence that chilled my soul
Prayed that I was dreaming
When I saw the ambulance in the road

And the policeman said
"I'm here to keep the peace
Will the crowd disperse
I think we all could use some sleep"

Last night I heard the screaming
Loud voices behind the wall
Another sleepless night for me
It won't do no good to call
The police
Always come late hey
If they come at all



Snoopy
 
Re: Re: Domestic Abuse

R. Richard said:
My question is why stay? Since the situation you describe would be at least ameliorated by locking up the aggressor, money cannot be the real root of the problem. It puzzles me.

The reason to stay is based on fear, on the fact that you know that when they say I'll kill you if you ever leave me they mean it, the other aspect is living in a situation like this for years tends to brainwash you, you find yourself rationalizing every kick punch slap and hit
 
Re: Re: Domestic Abuse

R. Richard said:
My question is why stay? Since the situation you describe would be at least ameliorated by locking up the aggressor, money cannot be the real root of the problem. It puzzles me.

Why leave when your mind is so confused and filled with thoughts of what used to be? It's hard to explain the issue of staying with the person to someone who hasn't been in that position. Typically, a person's first reaction is to stay, because at least they are in a situation (no matter how dangerous) that they are familiar with, and the scariest part is actually saying to someone, "this is what's happening in my life and I need help." No one wants to think they might be blamed and hurt by yet another person, especially the person they seek help from. The important thing to remember is that abuse survivors (I dislike the word victim) have been controlled, manipulated, and brainwashed to a degree. It is most difficult to escape such a situation.
 
Re: Re: Re: Domestic Abuse

destinie21 said:
The reason to stay is based on fear, on the fact that you know that when they say I'll kill you if you ever leave me they mean it, the other aspect is living in a situation like this for years tends to brainwash you, you find yourself rationalizing every kick punch slap and hit

Not necessarily so cut and dry. Sometimes the reason to stay is because the abusive partner is so fucked up that the abused partner, not viewing themselves as abused, feels they are the only source of strength, the only one who can take care of the other. The excuse: she/he has a lot of problems, borderline personality, post-traumatic stress, alcoholism for example. One does not have to be afraid to be abused. :)

Just a thought.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Domestic Abuse

CharleyH said:
Not necessarily so cut and dry. Sometimes the reason to stay is because the abusive partner is so fucked up that the abused partner, not viewing themselves as abused, feels they are the only source of strength, the only one who can take care of the other. The excuse: she/he has a lot of problems, borderline personality, post-traumatic stress, alcoholism for example. One does not have to be afraid to be abused. :)

Just a thought.


true enough but I can testify to the fact that fear can bind you so there seems to be no way out
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Domestic Abuse

destinie21 said:
true enough but I can testify to the fact that fear can bind you so there seems to be no way out

Are you so sure of that sweetie? That's what telling friends and family is all about, there are safety nets and there is hope.:rose:
 
Okay, I'm gonna wade right in here....

Not many know it, but yes, I've been in an abusive relationship.

So many people just say, "If it's that bad, then leave."

I wish I could slap them or put them in the situation I've been in, and see how fucking easy it is to "just leave."

Fear is always a factor. When someone is abusive, and they tell you they'll hunt you down and kill you if you leave, guess what? I believe them.

The police are zero help. ZERO. In my situation, they were even more afraid of him than I was. Wouldn't even TRY to find him and lock him up. The most they offered me was a ride, if I needed it. :rolleyes:

Family and friends sometimes don't realize how bad it actually is, even if you've told them. I remember telling my mother once that if I stayed, he would eventually kill me. The response I got was, "oh, it's not THAT bad. He's a good man, he works, he supports his family." again..... :rolleyes: Many times when you do tell someone how bad it is, you're either treated like you're a drama queen, and exagerating like hell, or they don't want to get involved. Many say they'll help if you need it, but when it comes right down to it, they're just as afraid as you are of the abuser, if they believe you at all.

One common trait most abusers have is that they are very successful at isolating the one they control. That means very few friends most of the time, and no close relationships to any family you may have. Okay, I can hear people now: "I wouldn't let anyone keep me from MY family" but I promise, it's not that damn easy. It's starts out slowly, but the abuser pitches such a fit when you want to spend time with friends or family, and you want to keep things calm, so eventually you stop seeing them. To the point where if you wanted help, there's no one around you - no support system at all.

They've also been known to threaten your family with harm. Or, in my case, threaten to take my children from me. What's worse? Living like that, but able to keep my children with me? Or leaving, but losing my children in the process?

Just leave.....my ass.
 
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Physical abuse is the first step. It breaks you down untilyou start believing that you really are as worthless as he says you are. Then you become grateful that he wants toput up with such a lowlife as yourself. Your relationship might not be good, but atleast you're not alone. And if you just try harder, then maybe he'll be pleased, maybe he'll find nothing wrong, maybe he will be nice tonight...
Better the devil you know, and all that shit.

My ex-husband used to tell me that no other man would ever want me, because I was a fat, ugly psycho.
Years later, I wonder if those words had anything to do with me partying with every guy I saw once I was free.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Domestic Abuse

destinie21 said:
true enough but I can testify to the fact that fear can bind you so there seems to be no way out

Fear is binding. 'Seems' is a key word. There are always possibilites.

I have read other perspectives here, and I agree, fear, in the context of I am going to be killed (which in itself is not simple, because one is more likely to be killed while staying) is the most talked about factor, but it is not the only factor.

Sometimes, people who have all the financial power, if you will, and emotional stability, if you will, and are quite capable of defending themselves, if you will, are abused. It is, in those cases, not about fear, it is about other things, and this is the only thing I depart with Cloudy on: Fear is not ALWAYS a factor, at least not the kind of fear which is perpetuated in the media.

Otherwise, I agree with everything else.
 
Professional advice

and support is essential.

There are many people who have been through it who can help - if you can find them.

I would know who to advise you to go to locally but where you are? I haven't a clue.

Help services must exist. Try finding them and then listen to their advice.

The abuser holds all the cards and the police aren't much help anywhere.

Sorry I can't help more.

Og
 
An old question that may have no answer

This is a question I've heard many times and the reasons seem dense and varied. Perhaps what we should really be asking is how do some find the strength and way to leave. Maybe that would get us further on.
 
I agree - the real need here is to find out how those of you (us) who have been abused, did get out of the situation, if (hopefully) you have gotten out of it.
 
Damn right it's scary. And that first step is probably the most scared you will ever be in your life. There are so many ways you rationalize what has been happening. You say, "Well if so and so ever happens, I'm going to. . ." And that line in the sand keeps moving closer and closer.

It's so easy for someone on the outside to tell you to get out of the situation. But they have no idea what it's like to have your confidence ground down to nothing or to deal with the consequences of your decision... and there are always consequences to every decision.

I will say this, if you are in an abusive relationship, then just make little decision. Just say, I'm going to go somewhere for 8 hours. Take enough clothes and things to last a week at least. If you have children take them with you. And go somewhere safe... where you can't be found. I want to stress the importance of not being able to be contacted unless you are the one doing the contacting.

Things get so much easier from there. In just hours you feel like a weight has been lifted. In days you start living again. Months later you realize, "Hey *I* can make it on my own."

Most of the laws were written by husbands who abuse their wives or fathers who abuse their children. But, even so, you can get help. You have family. You probably have family you don't even know about. You have friends. You have support organizations in the community. And me. If there's anyway that I can help, let me know.
 
Ouch

This is not a pretty or fun subject, but one that should be talked about a lot more. Not just here on this board, but in class rooms and homes around the world.

I am lucky enough to be able to say I have never been in an abusive relationship. I have however known several people who were in them, and after trying to help to no avail in all but one case started reading up on it.

There are many misconceptions about abusive relationships. Some of them have been touched on here.

The first is that if a person is in an abusive relationship they should just leave. In most cases this is almost impossible. An abuser controls their S.O. in many ways. Physical, emotional, and financial are the three most common but not the only ways. Physical is well known. He/she beats the hell out of their S.O. They may also threaten death, or they may threatn harm to other loved ones. ie. kids and family. The fear this generates can stop almost anyone. If a person decides to leave the abuser and takes the children with them they not only may lose the children through the courts, (this is becoming less common,) they may also face charges of kidnaping. If they happen to cross state lines then this becomes a federal case. Another way of control, and abuse is Emotional. The abuser breaks down the person until they not only feel worthless in their eyes, and believe they will be worthless in others, they also somehow feel responsible for the abuse they suffer. They feel that it is their fault. Because of this they are reluctant to seek help. The third form of control is finacial. The abuser usualy controls the money. How far can you run without money? Are you willing to lose everything you own to escape?

Another misconception is you can always get help. A loud Hah is in order here. In the United States there is still the preconception that a woman who is beaten or abused must somehow have asked for it. People try to get them back together with their spouse or S.O. in the hopes of a reconciliation. This is changing but very slowly. If it is a man being abused forget it. Wimp is probably the kindest thing he will hear. (I have even heard comments from women that men can't be abused, that if they claim they are being abused it is just another ploy.)

Another misconception is that the Police won't help. In most cases this is not true. In many cases it is true they are afraid to step in, but they will step in. (A domestic Disturbance call is the cops nightmare. They are the most volotail and dangerouse calls they respond to. Tempers are up, and people will explode into violence often without warning. More cops are injured responding to these calls than any others.) Most states have laws directing the officers to arrest if they see any sign of physical abuse, and the woman wont have to even show up in court. However, these cops often see the abusers released by the courts, or bailed out by the abused soon after they arrest them. It gets old for them. (One officer, a friend of mine was in tears one night. He had arrested the same man for abuse sixteen times in one year only to watch his wife bail him out each time. The seventeenth time he arrested him was for murder when he beat her to death. The cop had tried repeatedly to help her but she refused to be helped, mainly from fear.)

One comment which was touched upon by another was to go to ones family and friends. Often the abuser will cut the abused off from these. Even if they don't, many people are afraid to step in. Too many times people watch a woman leave an abuser only to go back to them. They don't want to deal with that. A person will be willing to deal with the threats and even attacks by the abuser if they know the abused will stay away, but if it happens over and over they just get to the point they don't want to deal with it. It's unfortunate but true. (BTDT)

Is there a cure for this? Yes there is. Unfortunately it wont happen overnight, and it will be faught against. People have to be educated about this. They have to know it is going on and what they can do to help. The courts have to be educated and retrained to stop this. They have to be convinced that this can't be allowed. There has to be a system put into place stopping the abused from bailing out the abusers, and the abusers have to be kept locked up for several days before being allowed to be bailed out. There has to be a revamping of the abuse safety net system. No more of this go back and try for a reconciliation. Lastly, the abusers themselves have to be taught that society as a whole will no longer tolerate this.

Cat
(I think most of you know my views and how I react when I see abuse. You also know my views on punishment for other crimes against women. So I'm old fashioned about this, but it would stop people from doing it.)
 
Couture said:
Most of the laws were written by husbands who abuse their wives or fathers who abuse their children. But, even so, you can get help. You have family. You probably have family you don't even know about. You have friends. You have support organizations in the community. And me. If there's anyway that I can help, let me know.

I deleted most of this post because I am in agreement with it, as I am in agreement with what has been said on this thread. However, I must take exception with this one paragraph. Although it is true that most laws are written by men, and that most of those men are husbands and fathers, most of those men are not abusers. Although there are many abusive husbands and fathers (and wives and mothers, to be honest) in all walks of life, most persons are not abusers. Like others who have posted on this thread, I am basing this on my own experiences. I have never been an abuser, nor was my father nor are either of my brothers or any of my closer male relatives. Any informed estimates or statistics will show that, that most men do not abuse their wives or children.

The best way to avoid abuse is to avoid abusive persons. If a person has an abusive nature, it shows early in a relationship. The signs are well known; there is no secret about what they are. and there is plenty of support, both private and public for women who are in an abusive relationship and want to escape.

Now, I wonder how much I'm going to be flamed for what I just said.
 
destinie21 said:
why is it that even when you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that things aren't right you stay? Why do women and men too I suppose, who are smart and experienced allow themselves to fall victim to the person they love or fear? (in most cases both love and fear.) why is it so damn hard to get away, even when you know that if you don't it might just kill you one day. Why can't the police do anything about a verbal threat? why does everything always have to come to a head before they want to help? why can someone beat the fuck out of you and be out on bail three hours later to do it again? Why can't the police understand that you won't call them after the second time because what's the point? It just exasperates the situation and unless the person is going to be locked up for a while in the end constant calls to the police won't mean a damn thing but a worse beating? Most of all why does any of this happen

I've been asking that myself for a long time. I have had women leave me because the asshole that got drunk and hospitalized them said he was sorry and wanted her to come back. Only to see her beaten again.

I wish I had a whole book of answers for you. I don't. I can tell you this though. Those who abuse don't change. Never. And the abused who go back to them get hurt again. Always.

And the abused will regret leaving them. Always.

I made a personal policy after the first time I dealt with this situation. If she leaves me and goes back to her abusive ex, I will be her friend. But never anything more again.
 
Some years ago I lost a girl I was dating to a guy who turned out to be an abuser. He had been caught at it before and given counselling. He learned why he had been caught and made damn sure there was no evidence ever again.

As has been pointed out, the police are less than no help. The highly trained PhDs who work for the state are damn near useless.

The girl came to me in desperation. She was afraid for her life. I could have helped her, but I have had some problems with the police in my past. Instead I pointed out that her basic problem was that she was a 120 pound woman being abused by a 200 pound man. I referred her to a 190 pound specialist in handling abuse cases. The specialist is a high school drop out who makes his main living collecting what is owed. (I used to do that myself.)

In two counselling sessions, each of which lasted WELL under five minutes, the high school drop out cured the abuser. The counselling sesssions were a couple of months apart, because high school dropout had to wait for abuser to get out of the hospital prior to the second counselling session. (Well, the high school drop out did apparently get some help from an MD who told the abuser that he would not survive a third 'counselling session.') The police gave the abuser no more help than the abused.

Don't tell me that you can't cure an abuser. It just takes a trained specialist.

JMHO.

P.S. No, the MD did not use the exact words counselling session.
 
Speaking as someone whose been the abuser, I'd say its conditioning. Much the same way an abused dog will get sick and anxious when taken away from the home it's being abused in.
 
Re: Re: Domestic Abuse

Dranoel said:
I've been asking that myself for a long time. I have had women leave me because the asshole that got drunk and hospitalized them said he was sorry and wanted her to come back. Only to see her beaten again.

I wish I had a whole book of answers for you. I don't. I can tell you this though. Those who abuse don't change. Never. And the abused who go back to them get hurt again. Always.

And the abused will regret leaving them. Always.

I made a personal policy after the first time I dealt with this situation. If she leaves me and goes back to her abusive ex, I will be her friend. But never anything more again.

Couldn't say that I'd be so friendly. Leave me, and life will go on without you in my life. Time waits for no one.
 
Re: Re: Domestic Abuse

Originally posted by Dranoel
I wish I had a whole book of answers for you. I don't. I can tell you this though. Those who abuse don't change. Never. And the abused who go back to them get hurt again. Always.

Strictly speaking, this is untrue. I advise people not to adpot this as an actual belief.
 
Boxlicker101 said:


The best way to avoid abuse is to avoid abusive persons. If a person has an abusive nature, it shows early in a relationship. The signs are well known; there is no secret about what they are. and there is plenty of support, both private and public for women who are in an abusive relationship and want to escape.

Now, I wonder how much I'm going to be flamed for what I just said.

Not so my friend, not so. Not if you a0love them and B) they act normal, I would have agreed with you maybe a year ago but I would have been wrong, maybe even dead wrong.
 
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