Dom/mes have limits too, don't they?

[RisiaSkye]

Over the last several months, we've talked often and at length about figuring out, setting, negotiating, and pushing limits. However, it seems to me that all that talk has been about the subs' limits exclusively.

Lest we give the wrong impression that Dom/mes are just open to any old thing, or that the process of negotiation is somehow all push from one side rather than the thrilling push-and-pull it actually is, I thought we might start a conversation about Dom/me limits.

As a submissive, how much consideration do you give to your Dom/me's limits?
How big a role does it play in your ongoing negotiation and play?

As a Dom/me, how much do you push your own limits?
How much does your sub/partner push those limits?
How do you discover what your limits are?
What are your limits as a Dom/me, Top, or TPE Switch?

Thoughts, anyone?

 

[RisiaSkye]

Copied and cross-posted from KM's "hard limits" thread

Originally posted by cymbidia
We all have limits, dominant, switch, or submissive. We all have places we really don't want to go and places we will not go. Within the embrace of a BDSM relationship, it's almost always the submissive who is running the play, the submissive who determines where the partners go and don't go - unless, of course, the submissive is far more experienced than her partner. (The sub could be a man, of course, i'm just speaking from my perspective, hence the "her" in my words.)

As someone who has more and more often found herself as the more experienced partner, sometimes way more experienced, i am becoming more used to dealing with the kinds of waffling and ill-defined limits that all new-to-BDSM people have.

If, for example, i liked fisting (i do), made it known to my new partner (i have), and was met with a a negative (scared, unsure, new territory, "i don;t want to hurt you like that", etc) response, then i would drop it.

After we'd had some time together, after my partner knew me a bit better, knew my responses, knew s/he could trust my honesty and capabilities, then i would (and have) bring the idea up again. I'd ask for a discussion of fisting play and, again, make my interest in it known - gently. I'd have info on how to do it safely ready, just in case my dominant wanted that.

Really, pushing your dominant into something new-to-them cannot be much different than pushing your sub. It's a new idea, maybe a scary idea.

In all cases, my pushing of a dominant is a thing of gentleness and quiet suggestion. Until they feel ready to proceed, it stays off-limits. After all, they are responsible for my safety. If they're not ready to assume that responsibility with regard to our play, then they're not ready, and the subject is again closed...for a time...

 

[Quint]

Cym says it all again.

But because I like to talk, I'll add my personal spin on it. I've been blessed to have a life partner who is 99% as openminded and kinky as I am. There are next to no things that I've mentioned desiring that he has not thought about, questioned his desire on, and decided to give a try, if only for me. Getting there was by no means arduous or frustrating for me, and I don't think I've ever demanded he give more than he felt totally comfortable with. Plus, most of our hard limits are the same.

Again, it boils down to, "how comfortable are you understanding and discussing your desires with the person you want most to satisfy them?" Put like that, it's almost too simple. I'm sure that if there had been background issues, such as an abusive father (which might deter him from using the force I desire), hunny wouldn't have been so consistently eager to push both of our limits and see how high we could fly. Or perhaps he would have, but it'd have taken much more discussion and explanation before it was possible.

 

[Shadowsdream]

For Me there are Hard Limits that I have no intention of crossing... ever... there isn't a sub on earth that could gently lead Me to cross them as they just plain turn Me off or are illegal and morally degrading in My opinion.

Any interraction between children, animals and scat are *almost* to be taken for granted in the BDSM community...I say almost because I know that some do not have these barriers even though it is incomprehensible to Me that they could not.

I *personally* find needle play a hard limit for Me as it just plain and simply does nothing for Me..it neither turns Me on or off. The idea bores Me..and I do not like to be bored..not even to please My partner.
Now this may seem like a bit of a strange one but a hard limit for Me is topping from the bottom..I bet that is seldom heard as a limit ~~~grin~~~ but I will NOT tolerate it, nor excuse it.

 

[Shadowsdream]

oops that did not answer a single question that was asked...too much coffee is My excuse..yup too much coffee and I am sticking to that!

I will rethink and get back to this thread with the answers that were REALLY the ones asked for..arghhhhhhh

 

[cymbidia]

Now this may seem like a bit of a strange one but a hard limit for Me is topping from the bottom..I bet that is seldom heard as a limit ~~~grin~~~ but I will NOT tolerate it, nor excuse it.

If a sub does not test her Dom/me, Shadowsdream, does not poke just a bit to be sure the Dom/me really does have the control, how can she begin to trust her Dom/me? If a sub doesn't test the Dom/me in a similar way that the Dom/me must test the sub - to see if they suit - then how can she relax into her submission and into the knowledge that the Dom/me can, indeed, care for them both as has been offered?

I almost always try some bit of topping from the bottom in a new relationship. It's a test, Shadowsdream, a test to see if the Dom/me will recognize it, will smile and halt me, allow it. I test my Dom/mes so i can slide more fully into my submission to them, secure in the trust that they can handle us both.

How can i trust without some testing to be sure my submission is being offered to one who knows how to use it to benefit us both?

 

[Shadowsdream]

cymbidia


I do not see testing as Topping from the bottom...I see testing the Domme as using the submissives intellect to discover if the Dominant really has strength and an equal intellect. Testing should last the lifetime of the relationship. It should be honest in its intent to validate the control and caring of the Domme.

A good Domme will know the difference between the two. She will feel pride in the sub that has the courage to make these small tests to Her reality. These tests are tests of the mind that brings growth to both in the relationship. I smile inside at these tests even though I must remain firm in the manner that I treat them with. For they are serious and must be taken in that manner. Yes a laugh and a cuddle are often the right way to go as well..Each test will have it's own need to be validated for what it is.

Topping from the bottom for Me is the *Domme me damn it* attitude, in the *way i want* and right *NOW* that drives Me insane. And when this desire to play cannot be vocalized in honesty but comes to Me wrapped in reverse psychology it will be a cold day in hell before I will see such deception as testing. It is almost impossible to trick My mind in the D/s world.

Just as I would lose My credibility if I submitted from the Top a submissive loses their credibility for Me to a certain extent when they try to Top from the bottom. I know that I am very hard nosed about this.

I love this thread..I can see a great conversation with no ass kissing happening here...I deplore ass kissing..unless of course it is My idea. ~~~grin~~~

 

[cymbidia]

Topping from the bottom for Me is the *Domme me damn it* attitude, in the *way i want* and right *NOW* that drives Me insane. And when this desire to play cannot be vocalized in honesty but comes to Me wrapped in reverse psychology it will be a cold day in hell before I will see such deception as testing. It is almost impossible to trick My mind in the D/s world.

Oh gods yes, Shadowsdream, what you've described is truly blatant topping from the bottom and a kind of thing i'd not do in any situation.

I'm in a situation now where i have a regular play partner, someone whom i see on Monday night and oftens on a Saturday or Sunday, too. With me, he's dom for the first time in his life, though he was a self-professed SAM for more than five years of a 24/7 relationship. He's become a truly talented and self-possessed dominant in the time we've shared, though, and i don't think anyone in the world could tell that it's his first time out on that end of the flogger. He's described to me the sorts of things he used to do as a pushy, restless, topping-from-bottom bottom. I find such antics appalling, quite frankly. (Good thing since i'd never get away with any of them with him; it's a clear case of "been there done that and you're not gonna go there" between us.)

Do you think people top from the bottom when, as was true with my play partner, they're simply on the wrong side of the flogger? Do you think they do that because they're sensation sluts and that's the way they've learned to get what they need? Do you think they do it because they're actually craving being controlled - and no one has yet controlled them to the extent they need?

Why do bottoms/subs do such obvious and pushy topping from the bottom? Do bottoms tend to do them more often then subs? I would think so, but i have no real info on it.

And, interesting, are there dom/mes who actually *like* that and respond to it positively? There must be, hmmm? There are so many variations among us.

 

[Guest]

cymbidia


(Do you think people top from the bottom when, as was true with my play partner, they're simply on the wrong side of the flogger? Do you think they do that because they're sensation sluts and that's the way they've learned to get what they need? Do you think they do it because they're actually craving being controlled - and no one has yet controlled them to the extent they need? )

No..I do not think those that Top from the bottom are simply on the wrong side of the flogger. I don't see them as sensation sluts either. I don't believe they crave control at all. Topping from the bottom has nothing to do with submission..it has to do with Dominating...Taking the control in dishonesty. Eventually their kink...( Dominating from the back door) begins to bore them. Just as it has ultimately bored any real Dominant that has wasted Her time. It is *want* not *need* in My opinion.

(Why do bottoms/subs do such obvious and pushy topping from the bottom? Do bottoms tend to do them more often then subs? I would think so, but i have no real info on it. )

Bottoms are more into Topping than subs...for bottoms the goal is the play..for subs the goal is the entire package as a rule. Bottoms want the fast fix..subs want the enduring ecstacy. A bottom has little to lose as there goal is the play...it is much easier to find a play partner than it is to find a life partner..the submissive has more to lose...credibility in their honesty. And without honesty there is nothing.

I may be generalizing but then I can only give the opinion I have formed over the last 3 decades.

 

[Shadowsdream]

anyone know why My password keeps kicking out and then I come in as unregistered?

I believe this is the 3rd or 4th new password already.

 

[Ebonyfire]

I have a few...

No dead people, no animals, no children, no scat... you know, the basics.

Everything else is a preference. Since the subs I own and/or play with have to interview to serve Me, I only accept those who meet my requirements (preferences).

Ebony

 

[cymbidia]

anyone know why My password keeps kicking out and then I come in as unregistered?

I believe this is the 3rd or 4th new password already.

Are you timing out or being kicked out?

If you're timing out, that means (i think) that your email server thinks you've left your computer because you haven't done much (but type an answer into a post) for awhile - so it disconnects you.

If there's a real and true problem with your passwords, owever, then i'd say to PM Laurel, the site owner, and ask her about it.

 

[Ebonyfire]

Topping from the bottom

I do not want a SAM or a submissive who plays games by topping from the bottom. I am very clear about what I want in a submissve and what I expect. Game playing is grounds for dismissal. My part-time subs know this. and I have dismissed a few who thought I was joking. I do not joke. Nor do I want my time wasted.

I have one exception, and that is my slave tavish. He knows what his boundaries are, and I am confident over time (meaning when we are together 24/7), he will continue to behave in the manner he has been trained to.

I have submissives and/or slaves for different reasons than many of you may have in your own D/s relationships. My subs serve me in the manner I require. They choose to do it, no one puts a gun to their head. So if they do not do what they have agreed to do, they are dismissed.

You may feel differently, and that is fine.

Ebony

 

[catalina_francisco]

worthwhile bump?

 

[fat dick]

for me as a D i do have limits... not saying that some things will never occur but right now in my life... watersports, blood, and fisting are limits that i wont do.

 

[Netzach]

Harming type stuff. You know. Kicking full on in the nuts or the head. I can't see myself getting into that any time soon for any price or for any person. Talking about it, sure, while doing some other safer "harm"

(If you think no one wants this stuff you are sheltered.)

Kids and pets are out.

 

[NCShin]

Everyone has limits of course. I think that most discussions focus on the sub's limits simply because he/she is the one who usually has to go through the experience in a much more personal way.

While it may not be against my limits to tie a submissive's hands to the top of a doorway for 8 hours, I'm also not the one who would have to bare the discomfort that would surely go with that.

As for my own limits.

The idea of a gangbang turns me on quite a bit, but I can't really see any submissive of mine being the focus of one.

Kids, animals, scat ARE givens for me. Don't see anything erotic about any of those. Blood, knife play, gunplay, and any blunt object hitting. I guess it's safe enough for me to just say that I'd never consider doing anything that I thought could injure.

My submissive has expressed a rape fantasy. We have tried this and I was unable to do what was needed. Once she started to struggle things went downhill for me (if you know what i mean). Once I told her I wasn't able to go through with it with the force she was looking for and she relented, things were fine. It was a disappointment, but also on some level a relief for me.

 

[s'lara]

Well, sure. Dom/me's aren't without their limitations. i found it easier to discuss where the Dominant wouldn't go as opposed to pushing/testing blindly. A simple discussion worked well.

i found no particular need to tweak a Dominant's limits unless there was uncertainty as to why a particular act was beyond what they were willing to do. Then the "tweaking", as it were, could be defined as gentle examination of the uncertainty and the underlying reasons for it being a limit. Several discussions and knowing when to back off when things became intense usually led to an understanding.

However, i imagine there are limitations that a Dominant may have which will directly conflict with a base need of a submissive. NCShin, for example, was unable to provide His submissive with the rape fantasy she wanted. i don't mean to single you out NCShin, but Your situation is indicative of the Dom/me limit vs. sub desires scenario.

In an instance where the Dominant has a limitation in providing the sub a particular act, i am sure there are solutions to those kinds of problems -- maybe employing the help of a Top/Dominant to perform the off-limit act(s).

Eh, i think i would be wary of a Dominant who professed to have no limits.

lara

 

[Never]

Beheading. It just does nothing for me. Oh, and penises. Can't stand 'um.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Good bump?