Does your partner know you're here?

[Jessalynvix]

Yes She knows that i am here for i brought her here a long time ago. we both lurk more then anything because we went through a spell of being uninterested in being in here.

i do not need permision as of yet to post here. because our relationship has many aspects yes She is my Dom but we are not 24/7 yet for we enjoy our time spent as equals discussing things openly and freely. We are still discovering each other and our roles.

 

[Krinaia]

I have no partner... but if I did, well if he was the type that had to restrict my ability to free speech in order to feel more confident in his domliness, i wouldn't be with him. But if he were restricting me for other reasons, I'd obey. Reasons like I might be spending too much time here or he didn't want our personal life shared with the general public or well any other reasonable reason I'm a submissive, not a slave.... or at least I think I am, and to me that means I have the opportunity to choose not to follow what he says and to accept the punishment or consequences as such.

 

[Saint_Sinner]

I have no partner... but if I did, well if he was the type that had to restrict my ability to free speech in order to feel more confident in his domliness, i wouldn't be with him. But if he were restricting me for other reasons, I'd obey. Reasons like I might be spending too much time here or he didn't want our personal life shared with the general public or well any other reasonable reason I'm a submissive, not a slave.... or at least I think I am, and to me that means I have the opportunity to choose not to follow what he says and to accept the punishment or consequences as such.

I am not trying to pick this apart, but I'm going to. I'm not even saying that I am qualified to do so, but I will anyway. And, I mean no offense. As always, this is just my opinion.

Most Doms have no need to qualify their Dominance. I am naturally confident in my abilities.

But if he were restricting me for other reasons, I'd obey.Reasons like I might be spending too much time here or he didn't want our personal life shared with the general public or well any other reasonable reason I'm a submissive, not a slave.... or at least I think I am

does this mean that you would obey as long as the demands are approved by you? Dom's have a way of making an artform out of being unreasonable. A vast majority of the demands we make are to help you feel confident and comfortable in your submissiveness, nothing more. A good Dom usually has little problem taking care of themselves, a good Dom is concerned about taking care of you, kicking and screaming if it has to be that way. I understand your need to find a Dom that will meet your needs, but

.... or at least I think I am.......

you might not know what you need yet.

I have the opportunity to choose not to follow what he says and to accept the punishment or consequences as such.

I wonder if at this point it is more painful for you to submit yourself than to accept discipline for your failure to submit.

I understand that every sub has the need to find someone that they can trust, it is a prerequisite to true submission, but after that has been met, and you have trust, in my opinion, submission is an all or nothing deal.

Thank you for letting me show that I have a lot to learn.

 

[Krinaia]

Yes, I, in fact, this that part of the exchange is that I get to approve of his reasons. I'm still a person, I still have opinions.

My point was mostly that I would submit to his wishes on this... UNLESS it was because he felt the need to restrict my wishing to learn and communicate with anyone but him. That to me says... creepy.

I find it incredibly frustrating lately that people have been assuming I'm less of a submissive because I question a dominant's dominance. Just because I question a dominant's reasons for doing something doesn't mean I won't do as he asks. It just means I want to understand why. I might do as he asks and question it later. I might question it before I do as he asks. It will depend on the situation.. I have that right, I'm not a slave, I have a free will and I will exercise it.

And my questioning isn't always about denial of his dominance.. it's often about understanding my own submission. Sure I can say, you don't want me to post to these threads or reply to this certain person's posts, so i will do these things as you ask... but if I don't understand why he is asking that... well to me, that seems a cheap submission and a much cheaper dominance. To me, this is the only way I can come to fully trust and respect his mind and his dominance.

If you disagree, fine, that is your right... but don't blame me of being unsubmissive just because you find it doesn't suit your needs.

 

[Saint_Sinner]

First and foremost, you are so much more fun when I can get a rise out of you.............lol

Second, I was questioning your statements, not your submission, I have no right to do that.

A skydiver doesn't need to understand Newtons Law in order to enjoy the ride. They just have to take the plunge.

I have always applauded your straight forward and logical approach, but to eliminate all risk defeats the fun of a freefall. Trust your chute, trust yourself to jump. And have a great ride.

Cause we both know that your safe little world is begging for freefall.

Blue skies...baby...blue skies

 

[Krinaia]

oh what and you want to be the one to push me out of the plane?

 

[kitty4ever]

SkylineBlue, I can somewhat understand your reasoning, but for me, there was no question. Our relationship is not a 24/7 one, and He wrote out very clearly what is and is not covered by our D/s relationship. My Love has control over anything sexual, which these boards include, due strictly to their content. Therefore, He has control, if He wishes to assert it, and He has by ordering me to give my input into some threads. I do believe each relationship has to be negotiated between the participants.

 

[Krinaia]

kitty, do understand your situation is drastically different than mine too... which makes all the difference. Right now, I'm single and looking - I am the only one that can defend my rights and I am the only one who can be held responisble for the choices I make - especially in regards to the dominant I choose for myself. As such, my theories are based on these type of viewpoints... not the mindset of someone in a relationship at this point, but of someone seeking to find a healthy relationship in which they can thrive... if that makes my theories less valid, well, I'm going to frankly tell the person trying to tell me that to go... well nevermind, but its getting increasingly frustrating to try to discuss my viewpoints on such subjects with other submissives when those submissives are in relationships and have forgotten what is like to be alone - not to say you have, i'm just on a rant.

 

[emme]

Skyline blue,

I totally agree with you and I think you are very wise. Submission is based on trust and How can anyone trust a person if one doesn;t understand their motivation? Eventually I would not need to know why to eveything, but early one in a relationship I NEED to know. Then again I am pessimistic, cynical and all but ran a criminal records and credit check on my husband before we became serious.

emme

 

[Krinaia]

Skyline blue,

I totally agree with you and I think you are very wise. Submission is based on trust and How can anyone trust a person if one doesn;t understand their motivation? Eventually I would not need to know why to eveything, but early one in a relationship I NEED to know. Then again I am pessimistic, cynical and all but ran a criminal records and credit check on my husband before we became serious.

emme

(big sigh)

Thanks!

You put into words something I had thought but hadn't vocalized -understand their motivations in order to be able to trust them. Yes, that is exactly right.

I think a little pessimism is a good thing... balance is so important. I used to trust everyone I met. And I used to get hurt or suprised when people turned out to be rotten. And now, I approach people more warily... because, I learned from my mistakes... I think that shows I've matured a little since I was 13/15. Sometimes I still let my eagerness overshadow what should be a more appropriate level of skepticism.

But thank you for your support. And welcome to Lit.

 

[redelicious]

My point was mostly that I would submit to his wishes on this... UNLESS it was because he felt the need to restrict my wishing to learn and communicate with anyone but him. That to me says... creepy.

But see, hopefully you wouldn't submit to such a Dom, so it's really a moot point right?

 

[Krinaia]

But see, hopefully you wouldn't submit to such a Dom, so it's really a moot point right?

moot... perhaps, except that i worry i will get desperate and overly horny... <sighs>

damned 22 yr old hormones

 

[Netzach]

I think it's utterly reasonable for a submissive to ask why they are being told to do something and to say "I think you are smoking crack" if they think that the request is idiotic.

Some requests are just plain idiotic. Additionally, I'd much rather know it if that's the general consensus, though I may decide it needs to be done this way idiotic or not.

I'm not into being proved to again and again and again the depths of trust and submission. I'm not into wasting time and frustrating just because I can.

Yesterday I MADE M send in his resume to a place that he ought to, dust off his cover letter, helped him edit it, all morning, very drill seargeant. This was more satisfying to me than a whole week of shoe licking.

And I occasionally do stupid things and choose intelligent submissives who aren't afraid to tell me that in the interest of honesty.

 

[Krinaia]

Thank you NZ, I knew there was a reason I liked you.

 

[catalina_francisco]

kitty, do understand your situation is drastically different than mine too... which makes all the difference. Right now, I'm single and looking - I am the only one that can defend my rights and I am the only one who can be held responisble for the choices I make - especially in regards to the dominant I choose for myself. As such, my theories are based on these type of viewpoints... not the mindset of someone in a relationship at this point, but of someone seeking to find a healthy relationship in which they can thrive... if that makes my theories less valid, well, I'm going to frankly tell the person trying to tell me that to go... well nevermind, but its getting increasingly frustrating to try to discuss my viewpoints on such subjects with other submissives when those submissives are in relationships and have forgotten what is like to be alone - not to say you have, i'm just on a rant.

Maybe try this from another perspective SB. I don't think those of us in relationships necessarily forget what being single and alone is like. I personally get shivers when I think I could be in that very position now if I had not gone with instinct more so than logic. Maybe what others are trying to do is share the experiences they have been through, the knowledge they have gained in a practical sense, and give you some valueable comparisons of what is out there and how various situations and people can be viewed.

Not all the information is going to directly be of value to you, some may not immediately show their worth, but most will build up a wealth of experience which may give you a head start to finding what it is you want and need in another. The journey is fun and individual, but with a little subly (and Domly) support from others can save you a lot of painful and at times embarrassing gaffs you might rather spend making positive and growing steps.

Catalina

 

[sunfox]

I think it's rather silly to say someone's idea of what is right for their relationship or desired relationship is wrong because it isn't what you have or believe.

That SkylineBlue would want to understand her future Dominant's reasons for requiring something doesn't make her wrong. It makes her different.

I should think that'd be something we'd all appreciate, being different from others.

I would not be happy with someone who felt the need to control my expression of thoughts on this board. So my partner is right for me, because he simply doesn't care. It keeps me busy, it amuses me, and it never takes away from our personal time. This works for us.

Now I'm done hijacking. And I've already stated, my other half doesn't care if I post here. Obviously. Hmm, I'm quite a mouthy sub.

 

[Krinaia]

Maybe try this from another perspective SB. I don't think those of us in relationships necessarily forget what being single and alone is like. I personally get shivers when I think I could be in that very position now if I had not gone with instinct more so than logic. Maybe what others are trying to do is share the experiences they have been through, the knowledge they have gained in a practical sense, and give you some valueable comparisons of what is out there and how various situations and people can be viewed.

Not all the information is going to directly be of value to you, some may not immediately show their worth, but most will build up a wealth of experience which may give you a head start to finding what it is you want and need in another. The journey is fun and individual, but with a little subly (and Domly) support from others can save you a lot of painful and at times embarrassing gaffs you might rather spend making positive and growing steps.

Catalina

I think you missed my point. The discussion is not whether or not I listen to others who may have knowledge based on their experience... but whether a submissive can question her dominant or his dominant, and still be considered a submissive. My point was I didn't agree on how some felt though they have expereince, I stated so and thankfully, several experienced people came out and supported my opinion with their own.

And don't lecture me on learning from other's mistakes... I'm in the career I'm in because I'm good at making observations and applying those observations to real world situations. But yes, I'll make mistakes, and some will be painful and some will be embarassing but my life will be richer, fuller, and better for it. Even if it hurts, that is life. What is sweetness without having experienced bitterness?

Let's not forget, experience and knowledge does not necessarily make for wisdom... though the proper application of them does.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think you missed my point. The discussion is not whether or not I listen to others who may have knowledge based on their experience... but whether a submissive can question her dominant or his dominant, and still be considered a submissive. My point was I didn't agree on how some felt though they have expereince, I stated so and thankfully, several experienced people came out and supported my opinion with their own.

And don't lecture me on learning from other's mistakes... I'm in the career I'm in because I'm good at making observations and applying those observations to real world situations. But yes, I'll make mistakes, and some will be painful and some will be embarassing but my life will be richer, fuller, and better for it. Even if it hurts, that is life. What is sweetness without having experienced bitterness?

Let's not forget, experience and knowledge does not necessarily make for wisdom... though the proper application of them does.

Sorry you chose to take it as lecturing SB. I won't bore you again with a viewpoint I thought might help you see another's perspective. Amazing seeing I didn't even initially have a problem with what you had said, or berate you for asking anything of a Dominant.

Catalina

 

[Krinaia]

I think it's rather silly to say someone's idea of what is right for their relationship or desired relationship is wrong because it isn't what you have or believe.

That SkylineBlue would want to understand her future Dominant's reasons for requiring something doesn't make her wrong. It makes her different.

I should think that'd be something we'd all appreciate, being different from others.

I would not be happy with someone who felt the need to control my expression of thoughts on this board. So my partner is right for me, because he simply doesn't care. It keeps me busy, it amuses me, and it never takes away from our personal time. This works for us.

Now I'm done hijacking. And I've already stated, my other half doesn't care if I post here. Obviously. Hmm, I'm quite a mouthy sub.

Thank you sunfox!

And you being sassy makes you all the more fun methinks.

I'm reminded of an email from a hopeful dominant/master I recieved at bondage.com .... the guy wanted me to answer all sort of questions, allow him to move in with me, quit my job after a time and start allowing him to decide my actions down to what side of the mouth i started brushing my teeth on. Now personally, I have no desire for that much micro-management (as he called it). And I think it's rather foolish, time-consuming and putting, what I think, is a good mind (mine) that can make decisions for itself to waste. To me, not questioning my dominant on anything, not understanding his reasoning or trying to understand him by asking him questions - is the same as what this guy wants, a mindless body to fulfill his wishes and to fulfill his desire to have a lovely live robot that does exactly as he programs. Which I think would be like eating boiled potatoes with no butter and no salt for the rest of my life - tasteless.

 

[Krinaia]

Sorry you chose to take it as lecturing SB. I won't bore you again with a viewpoint I thought might help you see another's perspective.

Catalina

I never said you bored me. So don't put words into my mouth. Nor should you take an attitude of pristine frustration with me. You stood up for others that you agree with (perhaps) but you never stated how you feel on the subject, you didn't post the opposite side to what I stated... is there a reason you think you should not question a dominant, is there something you disagree with about what I said?

Until you counter my points with opinions of your own, there is no discussion here, only lecturing. (edited to add..) Because you aren't treating me like an adult, you don't give reasoning back to a child, you lecture them. And often age, experience, among other factors... leads people to treat others like children... (end edit)

Though, kitty probably thanks you for standing up for him/her but i wasn't trying to knock her down or belittle him or her... I'm just trying to have a discussion here - and it's something people will feel strongly about, so of course they may get upset or riled up and that's a GOOD thing. But come back at me with something more then substantal.

 

[sunfox]

Thank you sunfox!

And you being sassy makes you all the more fun methinks.

I'm reminded of an email from a hopeful dominant/master I recieved at bondage.com .... the guy wanted me to answer all sort of questions, allow him to move in with me, quit my job after a time and start allowing him to decide my actions down to what side of the mouth i started brushing my teeth on. Now personally, I have no desire for that much micro-management (as he called it). And I think it's rather foolish, time-consuming and putting, what I think, is a good mind (mine) that can make decisions for itself to waste. To me, not questioning my dominant on anything, not understanding his reasoning or trying to understand him by asking him questions - is the same as what this guy wants, a mindless body to fulfill his wishes and to fulfill his desire to have a lovely live robot that does exactly as he programs. Which I think would be like eating boiled potatoes with no butter and no salt for the rest of my life - tasteless.

For me, it would be exactly the same. I don't want or need that kind of micromanagement, and my partner has no desire to offer it. We are both independent people, but we do need each other. Just not in quite so detailed a way.

Every person needs and wants something out of their relationships, D/s or not. And if you ask ten people, you'll get ten answers. For you, Skyline, much as for me, I think a lighter hand of control is needed.. at least mentally, because at least for me, I prefer heavier physical control somewhat frequently... for some, that may not be the case. But no one way is the only way.

Never feel that you should apologize or be ashamed of your needs. You'll be much happier looking for what can give you fulfillment.

What side you brush your teeth first on? Goodness!

 

[Krinaia]

What side you brush your teeth first on? Goodness!

I agree, to a large extent. I have need and want to be able to rely on somone for support. I also want to be sexually and physically dominated, it gets me off. I want someone that can provide guidance, but if I'm going to find that in a dominant, I'm going to make damned sure they have a mind and intelligence capable of that guidance. But I like browsing and discussing here because often I find things I would have never thought of before, and that's a good thing - it helps me rule out what I do and do not want and what I want to try before I rule it in or out.

And you know, I'm sort of wild and crazy, I start with my tongue.

 

[tenacious_rebel]

I think Skyline you are being a little over the top. I for one did not see anything lecturing in catalina's post, nor does she have to post what she feels about the topic you seem to want to discuss, especially as it is off topic to this thread. From lurking, I would say she has on countless occasions expressed herself in this and other areas, and has always tried to be supportive of even those she does not share the same views as. You do ask the views of others, have countless posts lamenting your single status, and yet it seems from this latest response to someone who I read as offering their support to you, you only want a defined response which supports yours alone and all others can go to hell it seems. You yourself were attacking submissives who were in relationships, and on more than one occasion made it clear you are not a slave as if it was something to be ashamed of. If I were catalina I would have had more to say on the subject of those points alone.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I never said you bored me. So don't put words into my mouth. Nor should you take an attitude of pristine frustration with me. You stood up for others that you agree with (perhaps) but you never stated how you feel on the subject, you didn't post the opposite side to what I stated... is there a reason you think you should not question a dominant, is there something you disagree with about what I said?

Until you counter my points with opinions of your own, there is no discussion here, only lecturing. (edited to add..) Because you aren't treating me like an adult, you don't give reasoning back to a child, you lecture them. And often age, experience, among other factors... leads people to treat others like children... (end edit)

Though, kitty probably thanks you for standing up for him/her but i wasn't trying to knock her down or belittle him or her... I'm just trying to have a discussion here - and it's something people will feel strongly about, so of course they may get upset or riled up and that's a GOOD thing. But come back at me with something more then substantal.

Sorry SB, I wasn't standing up for anyone in particular despite what you thought, just trying to help you see that people were not necesaruly attacking you because they did not agree with you. Nor was I frustrated with you. As for not giving reasoning to a child, I guess it depends what type parent you are. I personally provided my children with a reason for everything I did or asked of them so they understood....and then surprise, surprise, I actually encouraged them to form their own views and opinions whether they agreed with mine or not. Foretunately they have done that and are 2 beautiful individuals who don't always share my viewpoint, but at least can support their own.

I guess I am disappointed in your response as it was not what I expected, nor was my intention as you judged it but that was in your own mind. That is your choice, but I don't have to accept it, nor do I choose to. I am sorry you cannot recognise a friendly post from an unfriendly one, nor the offering of seeing something from another perspective which may have lessened your feeling of being under attack. There have been others who have also offered you support and other viewpoints, but it seems that is not what you seek. I for one don't care to participate in this discussion any further and wish I had never decided to post at all. You obviously can fight your own battles.

Catalina

 

[Etoile]

I'm kind of with tenacious_rebel in that I think SB is overreacting to Catalina. I saw Catalina's posts as expressing her perspective, not lecturing. Unfortunately it can be hard to read a tone of voice online, so it's easy to be misunderstood.

As for micro-managing, I feel the same way as I've expressed in my sig (the purple part). The dom should have the option to micro-manage (that was stated as part of a TPE thread, btw), but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. The tooth-brushing thing is absurd!