Does the Dominant suffer for the submissive?

[Liana26]

We all know that generally, it's the submissive that suffers. Even though everything should be consensual, it doesn't mean that the sub never submits to things that he/she simply does NOT want to do. For example, sex is painful for me, especially the first few minutes. You'd think I'd be used to it by now but every time I have sex it feels like I'm losing my virginity again. Do I spread my legs at Tyler's bec and call anyway? Yes.

But from your personal experience, does the Dominant ever suffer? Does He/She ever do things that they really don't want to do either to keep the submissive happy?

As of a few hours ago, I'm no longer in a D/s relationship. It was my call to end it (not the whole relationship just the D/s part) because I'm just so fucking confused about the Dominant and submissive roles and I think some time off from all of it might clear my head. I just felt like I had to do everything while he kicked back and relaxed. Maybe that wasn't the case and I'll realize that during my BDSM hiatus but right now that's how I feel.

So... this question is very important to me and I'd really appreciate any opinions anyone might have.

 

[TaintedB]

Ok, serious answer then.

In my extensive first-hand experience, yes, the dominant does sacrifice (I wouldn't go so far as to call it suffering), if he loves his submissive and he or she worth his salt. But you need to remember the most important factor about this as it will help you through your perfectly natural confusion and distress over this fact: with a dominant, the sacrifices are chosen--by him. They are his decision and he makes these decisions for his own reasons, not for your reasons or because you are manipulating him or influencing him unduly, and they are as much a part of his overall control of you as his demands for service. I've experienced considerable distress over this fact, as well, but talking to my dominant about his reasons for taking on what appears to be suffering always helped me. That, and keeping in mind a little story that, while not about dominance and submission, taught me a lot about leadership. Remember this story is about a more hardcore and serious situation than a D&S relationship, so you can't typically apply this level of stringency to yours, but it does have some interesting and, at least to me, helpful things to say about "suffering masters":

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It is related by a spiritual master that, when he was young, he wanted to be with this particular teacher whom he admired. He sought the sage, and asked to become his disciple.
The teacher said, "You aren't really ready yet."
Since the young man was insistent the sage said: "Very well, I will teach you something. I am going on a pilgramage to a holy place. You can come with."
The new disciple was overjoyed.
"Since we are going to be travelling together," said the teacher, "one of us must lead and the other must follow. Choose your role."
"I will follow and you lead," said the disciple.
"If you know how to follow," said the master.
They got underway. One night, while they were resting in the desert, it started to rain. The master got up and held a tarp over the disciple, protecting him from the elements.
"But..but that is what _I_ should be doing for _you_!" said the student.
"I command you to allow me to protect you in this way," said the master.
When day finally broke the disturbed young man said, "It's a new day so let _me_ be the leader and you follow me."
Sure thing, said the sage.
"I shall now collect branches to make a fire with," said the youth at nightfall.
"You may do no such thing; I shall collect it," said the sage.
"I command you to sit there while I collect the kindling!" returned the young man.
"You may do no such thing," said the teacher, "for it is not in accordance with the requirements of discipleship for the follower to allow himself to be served by the leader."
This went on and on, with the instances getting more complex, and on each occasion the master showed the student what discipleship really meant, by demonstration.
They parted at the end of their journey. Seeing the sage later, the young man could not meet his eyes. "that wich you have learned," said the older man, "is something of the nature of discipleship."

The disciple must know _how_ to obey, not merely that he must obey.

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See what I mean about dominance and submission not being as stringent or demanding as what was going on above, lol? The point I took away from this story was not that a D&S relationship should be exactly like what was described above, but rather a better understanding of what obedience means when you're somebody's slave or submissive. It means to me that you do what you're told, immediately and completely, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you. After the obedience, you can ask questions, that is, if you're in one of those relationships that allows questions and full expression of who you are (and I strongly recommend that sort of relationship, as requiring communication restrictions or self-censorship on the sub's part is usually a sign of insecurity and weakness on the dominant's part--due to his fears, he's unwittingly cutting himself off from controlling you more completley, as he cannot get to know you well at all if you must play a pleasing role around him rather than just be yourself).

There's one more factor to take into account with all this. I am not in any way criticizing or questioning your relationship, just stating something that is true in _some_ relationships. You're the only one who can decide if it applies to you or not. There are lots of people out there who say they are dominant but are not very controlling really and many submissives get involved with them, perhaps because they don't know what real control tastes like? Who knows? Anyway, I've seen my submissive friends and acquaintances go through this shit a lot. I am quite capable of making this sort of mistake as well--it goes with the submissive emotional package.

Anyway, if somebody is not dominant, the apparent suffering that you talk about may not be undergone for the reasons I stated above but because a non-dominant will play the same sorts of emotional games with his partner that most vanilla people do. In other words, some people, because they cannot control you directly (or do not know how) will use all the standard covert manipulation techniques so common in relationships that are, on the surface, not about control. The suffering in a partner, in this sort of situation, is a guilt trip intended to get your behavior to conform in a certain way because you cannot bear to see him suffering. Dominants are not typically this indirect. They don't have to be.

How do you know which it is? You ask your partner why it is he is doing what he was doing and explain to him exactly why it bothers you. A person who is dominant will be able to reassure you as to his motivations and reasons for doing what he is doing, and, after the talk, you may still not like his suffering, but you will understand and be reassured by the fact that it isn't done because he's turning sub on you or is masochistic or is mind-gaming you in the vanilla sense I just described.

One more thing: you described cutting off your power relationship. Perhaps I am a little hardcore and narrowminded here, but I don't think that you would be able to so easily do so with someone with a very powerful controlling nature. You may think that you'd be able to, even after countless years in the relationship, but in actuality, you would not find it that easy, because of dozens of subtle factors that most submissives are not the least bit aware of. Ties that bind and all that jazz, but they tend to be invisible, unless your dominant takes you into the "backroom" and clues you into their existence. Even if the worst was true and he didn't want you as his submissive, he would not run a covert vanilla game on you (i.e., make himself unattractive to you so that you assume the burden of responsibility of calling it off). Instead, as in all things, a dominant in an extreme and serious power-exchange would want the control (or responsibility, same diff) for specifying how and when the relationship ended, he would _demand_ that control in fact, and, if he clearly cared about you, he'd let you down very easily, even help you find someone more suited to your personality.

(By the way, I can understand why you would have this question here. This forum has drawn to itself an unusually bright and charming group of people who practice what I guess you would call "selfish dominance." They've become very popular opinion-setters here. While there is nothing wrong with their style of control, in fact I personally find it tres hot, it tends, like most hot stuff, to leave out the mudande realities of everyday living, including everyday living in a long-term, committed power exchange. Some of us do talk about these mudanities, however, particularly certain well respected female dominant posters--so try to listen to their quiet, calm voices as well as to the flashier stuff, as you can learn a lot from them. I post both ways, myself.)

 

[Shadowsdream]

There really is little to add that Tainted has not already covered...

Suffering for My subs or slaves? Not in this lifetime...ever. Sacrificing...no not really. Accommodating when the accommodation has a significant or positive dynamic...without a doubt. BUT at My discretion and in My own way.

In reality control cannot be taken from Me...as in a break from D/s. To Me this would be submitting to the control of My toys and I have no interest in doing so...if My Domination is not to their liking they have chosen the wrong Domme and I will do My best to leave a smile on their faces as they are led to the door. Yes I am a hard nose but then that makes Me who I am and most likely one of My attributes that brought them to their knees in the beginning.

Having said this there are many small pleasures that those I own receive unexpectedly...when I see tiredness that goes beyond the norm I will "demand they submit" to a scented bath at My own hands...an hour long foot massage while in bondage...a nap..collared and cuffed in My arms while I lie awake stroking them gently with a firm hand and the occassional kiss to the hair. I will "demand" they take time to surf on the internet for pleasure" while I cook dinner or wash the dishes. "Command" them to lie at My feet and watch TV with the remote in their hands...small pleasures that show consistent control which also demonstrates the fact that I am completely in tune with their inner struggles.

 

[sunfox]

Having said this there are many small pleasures that those I own receive unexpectedly...when I see tiredness that goes beyond the norm I will "demand they submit" to a scented bath at My own hands...an hour long foot massage while in bondage...a nap..collared and cuffed in My arms while I lie awake stroking them gently with a firm hand and the occassional kiss to the hair. I will "demand" they take time to surf on the internet for pleasure" while I cook dinner or wash the dishes. "Command" them to lie at My feet and watch TV with the remote in their hands...small pleasures that show consistent control which also demonstrates the fact that I am completely in tune with their inner struggles.

This is exactly the sort of thing that I feel makes your 'hard nose' methods desirable, I imagine, Shadowsdream. You are aware of a submissive's frailties as well as their strengths, and no matter what we can bear, we wear out too and need sometimes to be soothed.

It can make me feel like I'm failing C when I am too tired or too sore to properly submit myself to him. It's a mark of his love and affection for me that he sees this and makes certain that I get enough rest, or a break from daily tasks so I can recover. That's not being soft, in my opinion.. it's just taking good care of the submissive so that they can better serve.

 

[WriterDom]

Well, yes. Floggers can get heavy after 5 or 10 minutes. But stopping too soon is the bdsm equivalent of premature ejaculation.

 

[catalina_francisco]

You already have some great answers. I would say particularly in a love type D/s relationship there may be times when the Dom/me suffers for the submissive, though as has already been pointed out, in a manner which is their choice to make, not through feeling obligated or manipulated. Due to health reasons it is not unusual for F to demand I sit and vege out in front of TV while he cooks dinner, or orders me to spend most of the day in bed. It took some accepting on my part in the early days but he has taken the time to explain and make me understand not only is it his right, but it is done as part of his taking care of his property so she can serve him to the best of her ability in the ways he chooses. Still has it's moments of not being easy, but if I feel he may think I am worse than I actually am I will let him know and leave the decision with him. Hope you work things out in a way which feels good for you both.

Catalina

 

[Netzach]

I've also mandated days off, decided now's not the time, and backed off with suitable reasons MANY a time. I think this is the only way to be realistic about working with humans.

I don't compromise myself, but I certainly would say that I've made adjustments and dealt with things I'd rather not have to deal with in ways I'd not had the foresight to know until the issue came up. This is a process, and even in a casual relationship, while a posture of "I'm the Queen and I sit on my ass and you SERVE" is very fun, it's not really what's actually going on -- that would never work, not for me and not for my subs/bottoms/slaves.

I don't do well sitting on my ass and not doing.

 

[Liana26]

This is a process, and even in a casual relationship, while a posture of "I'm the Queen and I sit on my ass and you SERVE" is very fun, it's not really what's actually going on -- that would never work, not for me and not for my subs/bottoms/slaves.

I don't do well sitting on my ass and not doing.

That's sort of how I felt like me and Tyler's relationship was. But like I said, my perspective may just be warped. I really need to think about it. Well... we will be apart for the whole summer so I guess that should give me enough time.

Thank you everyone for the words of wisdom. I've read them very carefully and will read them very carefully again after I take a nap and I'm thinking more clearly. Thank you so much.