Does angst make for better writing

[deliciously_naughty]

I was having a conversation on another thread and it inspired me to create this one.

Does having angst make you a better writer? Do you write more when you're upset or stressed out? If your life had no bumps, would you be able to create bumps for your characters?

Now I'm curious.

 

[Pure]

I think 'bumps' make one a more interesting or complex person--not necessarily a 'better' one (i.e., more conscientious). More fun to talk to in a well-lighted area.

As to writing, look at the writers/poets we admire for passion, depth, etc. Rimbaud, Poe, Doestoevky; Lowry; Kerouac, Burroughs; they mostly had very painful, even short lives. So where the writing ability is there, I think suffering that does not destroy can lead to artistic 'depth' and merit.

J.

 

[MathGirl]

Originally posted by Pure they mostly had very painful, even short lives. So where the writing ability is there, I think suffering that does not destroy can lead to artistic 'depth' and merit.

In most of those cases, the brevity and pain of their lives was self inflicted. Maybe that has something to do with the depth of their writing.
MG

 

[gauchecritic]

Can't see it myself. I won't deny that suffering won't give any kind of artist a different slant, but as for making them more beloved, creative or better I very much doubt it.

The 'gift' of artistry isn't obtained by suffering. It's part learned, part natural and part absorbed.

Quite apart from which, suffering the indignity of not being able to holiday in Europe for the summer and the trauma of a hysterectomy in teen-age years are about as far apart as could be but, depending on circumstances; rich and pampered or so poor as not to be able to afford a decent diet, both can be quite as angst ridden as each other. ca va?

Gauche

Edited to strike Poe, Kerrouac and Borroughs from any list of passionate or admired.

 

[sirhugs]

I can't write at all when I am anstridden, but the writing is therapy for the angst. Strange, huh?

 

[Svenskaflicka]

If your life had no bumps, would you be able to create bumps for your characters?

I haven't had any bumping since late June, but my characters are humping happily nonetheless.

With me, it tends to be so that when Hubby is here to bump me, I don't have time for writing about humpy-bumpy...

 

[ffreak]

Of course angst is helpful to good writing

According to the psychology books I'm reading, angst happens when a person actively examines their world that has been disrupted by challenges to the world the way they see it.

We then try to cope by either generalizing (all stoves can burn), deleting (I can't hear you) or distorting (this fantasy must happen to others also). The consensus opinion in these books holds that all great art (writing, painting, music, etc.) comes through distortion of the world the way the artist sees their vision. No one else but Van Gogh could have painted Starry Night. No one else but Roth could have written Portnoy's Complaint.

"Wait until you are hungry to say something, until there is an aching in you to speak."
-Natalie Goldberg

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

About "knocks".

It isn't the angst itself that makes a writer something unique and effective. It's the insight that comes with having experienced them. Strength comes out of those experiences- and more importantly, and so does empathy, which makes you more able to connect and identify with people on all levels.

"Experientially challenged" people rarely write compelling words. Having forged a little mental weather makes you all the more cognizant of the details of the sun.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

I'm very eager to know what type of angst brings out such different reactions as "all stoves can burn", "I can't hear you", and "this fantasy must happen to others also".

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Oh Gauche, say it ain't so.

Poe is most definitely an unparalled writer- as is Robert Bloch, as is August Derleth.

Poe was the originator of the modern detective novel, for Chissakes.

Although to be honest, I suppose that would seem like a less stellar accomplishment to those who doubt the eventual transcendence of "genre" to literature. I think there's a thin line in a lot of early horror and pulp.

 

[Guest]

I agree with Gauche's and Mlle's first post. There have been billions of miserable souls on earth, only a small number have produced lasting art.

Thing is, sorrow and grief need extraordinary expression, more than ordinary happiness or joy (those we try to live). For me, the best artists express both; perhaps it's the sorrow that first drove them, but they rarely exclude the joy. I do not read for long anything done by a truly miserable person.

Perdita

p.s. I too discount Poe, Burroughs and Kerouac, and add Ginsberg and their ilk to the list. No arguments, please.

p.p.s For a good view into the meaning of sorrow, read Oscar Wilde's De Profundis, the long letter he wrote in Reading Gaol to his lover Lord Afred Douglas, the upperclass wanker extraordinaire.

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Who's gonna argue? *laugh*

You say Poe-hate-o, I say Poe-hot-o

Let's call the whole thing off...

Now, you must admit, even if you don't appreciate his "romances macabres" the man had the most magnificent mustache this side of Tom Selleck. And an amazingly high brow.

A "fivehead" really.

 

[Pure]

Most North Americans--myself at one time--underestimate Poe.
Then one reads how Baudelaire spent time preparing French translations of Poe and writing to introduce Poe to Europe. Mallarme too was influenced, I believe.

Poe had a special sense of the attraction of evil and how it seizes or infects people, growing from a kind of infernal seed in the heart. E.g, stories like "the black cat."

There's a nice little website with some Poe, Baudelaire, Rimbaud...Hoffman; up to Kerouac and others, and some commentary.

http://www.lub.lu.se/~biblutb/proj7/lit.html

======

Here's a little gem, illustrating connections: look at the talent involved in this relatively ignored little worK
http://www.mystudios.com/manet/raven/manet-raven.html

-----
The Raven

by Edgar Allan Poe
translated by Stephane Mallarmeillus. by Edouard Manet


Mallarme asked his new friend, Manet to participate in the publication of the translation of Edgar Allan Poe's The Raven. The text was illustrated with five etchings by Manet, and the printing was completed on May 20, 1875. A poster was made to advertise the book. The book was a limited edition. Only 240 copies were printed and they sold for a mere 25 francs each. The book wasn't the success they hoped for. With its voluminous proportions, the illustrations by Manet, still a controversial figure in 1875; the unusual nature of Poe's poems; and the still unknown name of Mallarme all conspired to discourage possible buyers.

------

25 francs!

 

[ffreak]

Damn, I wonder how much they're worth today. I wonder if I could find one (pant, pant). I love Poe's works and I collect books so I'm now on the lookout. Thanks, Pure.

Svenskaflicka, it is not my simplification in and of itself that leads to angst, but the fortunate experience of extremes. If a child touches their own body in a way that gives them a pleasureable sensation and an adult catches them (and punishes them), they may decide not to touch themselves without hiding. If that child decides to interpret their experience as touching always leads to punishment so don't ever touch. It is extreme (phobic) and incorrect. If they meet someone and begin to get urges to touch themselves (or the other person) they will probably go through a period of angst, trying to figure out a way to cope with their feelings of wrongness and their desires.

How about that?

"Tell me what you don't believe so I can get it right the next time"
-Garp

 

[ffreak]

Sorry for the 1-2.

Perdida, I did not want to ignore you. You make a perfectly good point about literature in general. I think the best stories always show a measure of goodness in the world. Without it we cannot truly benefit from the voyeristic vision the author gives us.

Read The Fixer, and you want to stop reading altogether (nothing good ever happens to the main character). Read Jacob the Liar and you feel glad to have read it. Both stories are essentially about the same thing. One lifts your spirits.

The same is true with the stories at Literotica. Those that get the most votes seem to be consistent in their joy of life. Those that seem to have the most realistic scenes include characters thinking about their own life and possibilities for things to get better.

I think that is why I like the site. The stories are entertaining, healing, funny. The stories make me feel good.

There are threads that make me feel good too. Beacuse of the participants attitudes.

 

[deliciously_naughty]

After having not written fiction since high school, I began to write a few stories (2) in a three month period prior to my moving to NYC. After moving to NYC, my writing exploded. Now, this might be credited to the floodgates being opened by those two stories. However, I think my experiences in nyc (which often weren't easy or fun) inspired so much more writing than I would've done had I not been in an upsetting part of my life or out of my comfort zone. Since moving back to MA, I have done little writing, and the majority of the writing I have done in the past six months happened when I took a vacation in New Orleans.

Shrug..

And I do love Poe and Wilde

 

[destinie21]

Angst is relative my insecurities are not going to be someone sles's aprhensions and insecurities as far as writting is concerned I wouldn't say it'S necessary to suffer to write, or more accurately there are plenty of people who are angst filled and are terrible at writting.





pS. prehaps the best of the writers are hiding smoewhere. aLL Filled with angst over whether they shold submit or how people will veiw it.

 

[Guest]

OK, I loved Poe when I was a teenager. I think he's nearly great. I love his persona, and his line about "the death of a beautiful woman". I love that he inspired and influenced others; I just don't put him in my pantheon. He'll be around a long time but he's not in my truly enlivening lit. radar.

Perdita

p.s. I didn't mean to rank him with the rank (Kerouac et al).

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Oh, thou dost condescend too much!!!

"I loved Poe when I was a teenager"

pfffft!!!!! You mean lady.

You're still kind of hot, though.

 

[Guest]

You're still kind of hot, though.

"Kind of hot"?

And you call *me* mean, Bruta?

cleo (feeling very lower case)

 

[destinie21]

Sure all the flirting goes on when I'm nowhere around
now I am angst filled.

 

[sailorm72003]

Sure all the flirting goes on when I'm nowhere around
now I am angst filled.

Can I help relieve the pressure of being angst filled?

Sailor

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Trova!-

I was kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You know you're the biggest charitable kindness pushover on the AH

"Dear ________, I missed you. Glad to have you back." *laugh*

The "kind of" was tongue implanted firmly in cheek- you know you're hot. Fuggedaboutit.

I'm age-sensitive due to being chronological under-enhanced.


And I ain't mean. I'm just a firm believer in the behavioral school; we teach people what they can do to us.

Wait, maybe that is mean. I don't know. *laugh*

In any case, I'm fairly sure *you're* not.

mis understood pen

 

[Guest]

Bloo:

You sweetiepuss, I was joshing too. Gawd, Gauche is so right on, we ARE girlies.

Love that we're twins, Cleo (feeling way higher case)

 

[MlledeLaPlumeBleu]

Gauche is right about more things than I care to admit.

If you tell him, I'll deny it.