Do you start with an outline?

[MikeAndJan]

I've made friends with several other writer's on this site and have noticed that they tend to take days or weeks to write a story. I honestly wake up early some mornings, get an urge to do a story, sit down and start typing. It usually takes about 3 hours to do one of these and twenty minutes for me and Jan to edit before submitting the same morning. Even when I write books (non-erotic) I'll usually write one chapter a day nonstop and have never started with any sort of outline. Is this unusual? Do other writer's here do the same? It's sort of like someone else is writing the story with my hands and I'm just reading along. Mike

 

[deliciously_naughty]

I can't work with outlines, not even when I write more professional papers. I sit down, let it flow and revise from there.

 

[quintessential]

Like deliciously_naughty wrote above, I don't use an outline either. Whenever I've had to write something, whether it be for my own enjoyment, for work, or for school, I tend to think about it for a little bit and then begin to write. I would have difficulty having to compete against an outline because I'm always changing the direction of the characters or whatever it is I'm writing about.

Over the years, I've discovered that I can no longer use longhand to set my ideas in motion, either. It's through the keyboard where I find my most luck. For some reason, I'm able to get my ideas on the screen so much faster than writing with paper and pencil or pen. Maybe it has to do with being afraid that I'll forget my next thought.

I have come across many people who can only work with an outline and there have been many times when I wish I was able to do that. Sometimes when writing a story, I have a tendency to get away from what I originally had set out to accomplish. That gets me a bit upset when I find that happening. That's when an outline would certainly come in handy. Although, I've been happily surprised many times, too, when my directional change leads to something I'd never even thought about and I like it much better.

No, you're not unusual, nor are the people who use outlines. It's all in what you feel gives you the best edge when it comes to freeing your imagination.

 

[Pookie]

I usually have a fairly detailed outline before I begin writing. The main things in the outline are things that need to occur at different points in the story for the plot to remain credible. I don't feel constrained by the outline I write for myself. In many cases, I find myself adding tangents or plot twists while writing the story. But I do try to keep as close to the original outline as possible. The longer the story, the more important an outline becomes in my opinion.

I like to know where I am starting and finishing before I begin a trip. The road from the beginning to the end can change along the way as things catch my eye. I might make a side trip to something that becomes an interest, but I always keep in mind where the trip needs to end.

 

[MissTaken]

A novice entering the thread

On the advice of a good friend, I have a scene or image in mind.

I then, ponder it for a bit, come up with the

"How did they know one another?"

"How did they get to the point of the scene?"

"What happens afterward?"

Then, I am a novice and my stories are rather simple in terms of plot and character development.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

I'd like to see

MikeandJan,
how about a link to your stories. I'd really like to see what they're like, having been written so quickly. How long do they tend to be?
If it takes you only 20 minutes or so to edit, I'd imagine they're maybe 1000-2000 words?

I think it's pretty incredible to be able to churn out a chapter of a novel a day, unless your chapters are also very short. You never get stuck looking for a fresh metaphor or trying to describe the expression on someone's face or something like that?

I often wonder how fast I could write if I could type faster. I taught myself when I was a kid and never learned to touch type, so I make a lot of mistakes and just don't type that fast. I always assumed that if I could type as fast as I could talk to myself, I could crank out stuff by the pound. But I know now that writing is very different from just telling a story to yourself.

But I'd guess that you're either very good, or not very good. I'd like to see your stuff.

---dr.M.

 

[Master_Vassago]

I dont use an outline either and although I am a novice as well, I don't feel the need to use one. I have normally an enormous amount of detail in any one of My stories.

As quintessential said I can just sit down and type it all out faster than if I sat to write it longhand and that is exactly as I do. SOmetime I think it would make things easier to stay within a timeline, but that isn't any fun. Just my two cents.

 

[its Leslie]

If we are talking erotica I don't prepare in anyway at all actually.

In retrospect it might help with efforts that I intend to add to later, but for pieces I expect to be stand alone works, I either like them when they are done, or I fix them after they are done.

 

[BigTexan]

My outlines are rarely on paper, but I absolutely have to KNOW the story, inside and out before I start writing it.

That isn't always the story that gets written, but I have to have it in my head first or all I get is random sentences that make even less sense than my stories.

So Yes, I start with an "outline" not on paper, but in my head.

BigTexan

 

[Wicked-N-Erotic]

It sometimes takes me weeks to write a story only because I like to be alone when I write and with kids my alone time is limited. I don't use an outline, never have, I just start with an idea and write whatever comes to me and go over it when i'm done and change things.
Wicked

 

[wildsweetone]

Nope. And after wrestling with that fact for some months now, I'm finally happy about the way I write.

I suck at thinking up outlines, and the few that I've managed to think up all felt like once I'd written the outline down, that I'd actually written the story. So the appeal for writing the story flew out the window and I was left feeling like I'd just been dumped on.

I too can sit and write a complete story in a few hours if I'm left alone long enough. I actually like writing over a few days, it makes the uncertainty, the anticipation all string out. I love it.

No one way is right or wrong, it just IS.

 

[KillerMuffin]

I'm not a novice at this and I don't use an outline.

However (always a but in there somewhere) I have to plot the plot before writing. On the longer works I write the book out of order.

I must identify the primary plot points and I usually write them first. After that it's a matter of weaving the rest together. I have specific themes I want to explore and I have to maintain control over the plot in order to keep tangents from confusing the reader. We all go on tangents.

A very beginner mistake is with the protagonist. Some people will find themselves with more than one--particularly in longer works. While this is certainly not wrong and can be doable, it's very difficult to do justice to two protagonists in one story.

When you lose control of your plot and you don't have the main points like climax and crisis points determined, it's very easy to lose your protagonist in your writing. At least it is for me.

You should write however is most successful for you to write. You must also define what's successful for you. Is it just posting at Lit? Winning an award at Lit? Getting paid to write? Each has different things you have to do in order to become "successful."

Frankly, if you "edit" in twenty minutes it's not editing. It's proofreading. Editing is an involved process best done at least two-three weeks from the time you wrote the story. You can't see weaknesses in your story without distance from the story.

To prove this truism, simply wait a few weeks if necessary and open a story you haven't clapped eyes on in a month. Most of us open up older stories here and cringe. Some don't, most do.

 

[MikeAndJan]

Good or Bad? Matter of opinion I guess.

Killermuffin made a comment that is correct:
"Frankly, if you "edit" in twenty minutes it's not editing. It's proofreading"
I really never edit and even when writing books have never rewritten a chapter. Now once, Jan didn't like one of the chapters of a children's novel I was writing and I deleted it. And another time I had a power failure at home before I'd saved almost a complete chapter and it was gone forever.
And as far as dr mabeuse's curiosity about whether my work is good or not? Well, I guess you'll have to be your own judge at that. Here's the link that was requested although if you did a search you could've found it.
http://www.literotica.com/stories/memberpage.php?uid=3370
Hope this works as a link friends. If not just search for Mike and Jan.
Thanks to everyone for the insight though..., glad to know I'm not the only free-writer. And, BTW, typing fast does help a lot!
Mike

 

[Quasimodem]

I always write an outline for any writing which is more than five thousand words. While, I seldom write outlines for short stories less than five thousand words, the same procedure takes place mentally, as happens on paper.

There are exceptions. A ten chapter, two-thousand words a chapter, novelette was written with no outline, but it was based upon actual events from my childhood, so that is not remarkable.

Occasional, if the story takes a turn away from the outline, I might follow that. Either changes to the outline, or the deletion of the new portion results, if the new direction will not fit the old outline.

Since I am usually working upon several projects at the same time, it is difficult to say how long it takes me to write. One novel length 'alternate history' took ten years to write. History itself alternated in the midst of the writing, and it was abandoned for many years. A sci-fi novelette, (50,000 words) was completed over a single weekend, first draft, edits, and polish.

Both these examples, are exceptional extremes.

At work, writing assignments usually arrive with preconceived goals. The length is, of necessity, brief.

Longer writing, is invariably outlined, to assure that each point to be covered, is included, in the most compelling sequence possible.

Only the writing at work, must be handled in this way. That is to ensure that if the assignment is passed to some other writer, they won't have to duplicate the work I have already done.

 

[NoJo]

I find it interesting to compare my nice, respectible day job (writing computer programs) with my secret, filthy disgusting, covert night job (writing erotica):

If I'm writing a small computer program I'll sit down and write it with no diagrams or doodles on paper. Then I'll compile it. The compiler checks that the program works -- I suppose a compiler is sort of the equivalent of a spell and grammar checker. It's completely unforgiving about typos.
Then I'll run it to see if it does what I want.
I've basically done programming for enough years that with small porgrams the whole thing is in my head before I start typing it up.

With a big program (but still small enough for one person to write), I HAVE to plan, "top down", drilling down into more detail. Working top down means having a big picture of what the program is going to do, and how all the parts connect. Then I build each of the parts, sometimes going top down into those blocks to make them up of smaller and smaller parts. I often re-use prefabricated "program building blocks" that I've used elsewhere (or stolen form other people)

With a "little" story it's similar. Usually I have it in the back of my head and write, then "compile and run" it to see that it works. Then I masturbate a couple of times. I never do this part with computer programs. The other poeple in the office would notice and probably tease.

I can do this linear unplotted story up to about 2,000 words before it starts to wobble like a too-big soap bubble. Beyond that, the story loses direction or momentum if I havent planned it.

 

[ronde]

I didn't realize the similarities between writing stories and writing code until the subject came up in a thread a couple weeks ago. I thought about it for a bit, and recognized the same patterns in my writing of both. As Sub Joe says, it's nearly impossible to write a program of any size without flow charts and cross references for header files, file structures, and variable definitions.

I don't usually write my outline for a story, but it's firmly fixed in my thoughts. I have a beginning scene where at least one character is introduced, and a strategy for introducing other characters, creating the plot, and getting to an ending that brings things together. I write with this strategy in mind unless one of the characters wants to go somewhere else. Sometimes I revise my plot, and at other times, I redirect the character.

My editing takes as long as, or longer than, the writing. I spell and grammar check, and then read and re-read the story. It's usually good to put it away for a while in order to "forget" the way the words go together. This makes it easier to find ommitted words, misplaced punctuation, etc..

 

[English Lady]

I don't write an outline and i don't alwauys know exactly how my story will go however I will have thoughht about it,fantasiesed about it drempt it even. I will know however how my story begins and approximately what i want to happen and how my characters are likely to end up but thats about it really! I just go with the flow.

 

[Sabledrake]

I write outlines as infrequently as I can possibly get away with. That's always been my least favorite part, whether for a term paper, story, or book. Sometimes, the story will spontaneously take off in some new direction and be better than what I'd planned, so I don't like to feel bound to an outline.

When it comes to writing speed, I can do about 4,000 words a night if all's going well. That means a chapter a night of Constance, plus time for editing, for instance.

But, huzzah, Constance will be finished tonight! Finally! When I started, dusting off the first chapter I'd written years ago, I never expected to finish up 80,000 words later with a damn novel! I've loved writing it, but whew, I'm exhausted!

Sabledrake

 

[Eldridge]

It's funny, I would have thought many more people would have used outlines.

I use what I call an "idea board" (well, word document actually), where I just write down all the ideas I have for any one story.

These ideas are usually just scenes that I think up at the weirdest times, while driving, sleeping, watching tv, at work etc. and if I don't write them down I'll loose them when the next idea comes along.

Many has been the time when I've gotten out of bed at 3am just to write down a few really cool ideas I had just come up with for a story.

Now, this idea board usually is far from complete when I start writing. It usually has the main characters on it, and some cool scenes, so I'll just start there and plod my way onward.

During the time that I'm writing the first chapter, however, I tend to write more stuff for my idea board than I do for the chapter, so in the end I wind up with a small summarized version of the whole story (albeit dreadfully out of order and often containing older ideas that I had already mentioned as "not feasible" in other ideas and several written pieces on the same idea.)

I couldn't write anything without a storyboard / idea board, I think.

 

[Diane Marie]

I, like Pookie_grrl, believe that to write a really good story I need an outline. Not real detailed but I tend to think about my stories first, I jot down notes, who my characters are, events that I want to happen, etc. Maybe I’ll even do an interview with one or two of my characters, most of the time that’s written. By the time I’m ready to write I need, for my own benefit, to know how all of this fits together. I’m never sure how my story is going to start but I do have a good idea of where it’s heading, and what major events I want to happen.

For my writing here I break all the rules and just write. I enjoy that, stories aren’t, even to myself, predictable. Because of what I write here, at one time driven by some hate, now more by humor, I do know pretty much where my stories well end. Writing this way is more risky, I suppose, my last story, which I felt was absolutely hilarious, was not well received, very poorly read and rated. But as they say, I’d really like to know who they are, life goes on.

The problem I have writing without some outline, as I do here, is that a large majority of what I start never get finished. They seem to have a mind of their own, going places I don’t intend, places I have no idea how to get out of.

 

[medjay]

I started writing a book not too long ago and tried to use an outline for the first time. I ended up throwing it away. As the creative process gets going things change. Your mood changes, ideas change, and an outline can become dated, irrelevant, constricting and distracting (at least for me). My book has evolved into something so vastly different from the original outline it's almost as if it were a waste of time to put it together in the first place.

I'm back to writing the way I always have; fluidly and spontaniously. It's much more comfortable.

 

[TheEarl]

I have to know exactly what's going to happen before I start writing. Of course the story itself may not end up anything like the outline, as it changes when I'm writing, but I must know what I'm doing, or else I flounder.

My greatest respect goes to writers like Christopher Brookmyre who have their characters and write a story for them, rather than writing the characters for a story.

The Earl

 

[NoJo]

Big Cult

The "Illuminatus" trilogy, which had a big cult following in the early '70's, was written like a big game of "consequences" by its two authors, Shea and Wilson. It's very rambling and lots of fun -- the authors put each other in "tight spots" and raised lots of mysteries, which they had to get out of, each alternating chapter meandering in an apparently random direction.

I've heard that a lot of Charles Dickens' stuff was written as a serial for a newspaper, the way TV soaps are written now -- no big plan and plotting, just a sequence of chapters that develop and introduce and reintroduce characters.


So you can write great and really popular stuff without planning.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

This Ain't War & Peace, Folks

Really, who needs an outline for the kind of stories posted here?

"They met, they screwed, The End." There's my outline.

Oh, wait, here's a more complicated story:

"They met, they screwed, it turned out he was her husband all along. The end."

or

"She was a babysitter, the guy screwed her, his wife came in, they all screwed. The end."

If you can't remember that, then you really need to go to my $5000 Writers' Workshop.

I mean, come on!

---dr.M.

 

[gauchecritic]

I wouldn't be that simplistic doc. Quite a few of the authors here seem (or claim) to use this site as a literary theatre.

Personally, I write these stories because I like them.

None of my notes, thoughts, storyboards, plots, (plots?) get written down, they just swirl around in my head until the blood has other places to visit.

Gauche