Do you own your body?

[rockcasbah]

Most women who have abortions are already mothers.

Around 2/3….many of whom simply find it inconvenient in terms of not wanting to bear the lifestyle hit.

The use of abortion as birth control is probably behind the moral outrage surrounding abortion.

After all, you neuter your cats, right?

 

[ll74]

1/2 of all American men pay for their mistresses' abortions.

 

[KeithD]

Around 2/3….many of whom simply find it inconvenient in terms of not wanting to bear the lifestyle hit.

Of course you would make that assumption simply because it suits your narrative. Of course you'd use the Giuliani "theory without evidence" argument.

 

[rockcasbah]

“US Supreme Court rules woman's life ends at conception”

The Beaverton

 

[rockcasbah]

Of course you would make that assumption simply because it suits your narrative.

Of course you would make that assumption simply because it suits your narrative. Of course you'd use the Giuliani "theory without evidence" argument.

See:
https://slate.com/human-interest/20...erminate-pregnancies-are-already-mothers.html

 

[rockcasbah]

1/2 of all American men pay for their mistresses' abortions.

Only half?

There should be new rules as this gets sorted:

- default position: the zygote is joint responsibility
- if both want an abortion , dutch treat on $
- if he wants it and she doesnt, he pays
- if she wants it and he doesn’t, she pays
- same rules if born

 

[Rotadom]

 

[ll74]

Only half?

There should be new rules as this gets sorted:

- default position: the zygote is joint responsibility
- if both want an abortion , dutch treat on $
- if he wants it and she doesnt, he pays
- if she wants it and he doesn’t, she pays
- same rules if born

I was just making up shit.

A woman shouldn't need a reason to terminate pregnancy

 

[golf13]

Adrina - I'll give you the serious answer. From a legal perspective, the answer is "No". The "State", whatever the "State" is defined as depending on your will, owns you. The process of granting rights and reserving rights, is then negotiated through the messy process of "Government".

I realize your primary focus and prompter of the discussion is the current abortion question, but it extends far beyond that, abortion just being one of the many examples in society.

All laws imply/assume that the state has a "controlling ownership" in our bodies. The whole historical process of carving out individual rights under any form of government begins there.

Now, there is plenty room to debate it philosophically, and I've even set aside the religious/spiritual environments, since there it's a whole other discussion. But, at the end of the day, all governments, whether or man or of god, to end state is the same. You do not own your body, regardless of your gender.

well said. The govt. can decree executions, conscript men for the draft, and institutionalize people. the flip side is that govt. can create safety nets for the poor, demand safe working conditions, and create guidelines for a whole host of industries and careers. We cede power to govt to try and better society, to elevate us from being savages (which we're not far removed from). But it's an uneven progression. Trying to get everyone on the same page is near impossible.

Abortion is a complex issue. We all agree life is sacred, but at what point does a fetus become "life"? I don't think any of us know that answer for certain. Personally, outlawing abortion will just drive it underground and into back alleys, with poor results. That doesn't mean I'm in favor of it either---as humankind advances, there's a whole host of issues we should be surmounting.

And we as a nation seem to have lost our ability to rationally discuss issues: you're either left or right, blue or red, Dem or Rep. Hand grenades get tossed, and no one listens. Sad.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

Whoop whoop! The grievance porn thread has not been aborted yet!

 

[adrina]

well said. The govt. can decree executions, conscript men for the draft, and institutionalize people. the flip side is that govt. can create safety nets for the poor, demand safe working conditions, and create guidelines for a whole host of industries and careers. We cede power to govt to try and better society, to elevate us from being savages (which we're not far removed from). But it's an uneven progression. Trying to get everyone on the same page is near impossible.

Abortion is a complex issue. We all agree life is sacred, but at what point does a fetus become "life"? I don't think any of us know that answer for certain. Personally, outlawing abortion will just drive it underground and into back alleys, with poor results. That doesn't mean I'm in favor of it either---as humankind advances, there's a whole host of issues we should be surmounting.

And we as a nation seem to have lost our ability to rationally discuss issues: you're either left or right, blue or red, Dem or Rep. Hand grenades get tossed, and no one listens. Sad.

So, if the state owns you, why isn't there compelled organ donation?

 

[butters]

No. It has a right not to be murdered. That's all.

you cannot 'murder' an embryo... it's not even known as a foetus until 8 weeks and by then is about the size of a kidney bean. If a foetus can be 'murdered', then you're gonna need to prosecute mother fucking nature for every miscarriage she performs, or take it with 'god' as it's surely 'his will', right?

at 6 weeks, it doesn't even have a 'heart':

But what exactly do we mean when we talk about a "fetal heartbeat" at six weeks of pregnancy? Although some people might picture a heart-shaped organ beating inside a fetus, this is not the case.

Rather, at six weeks of pregnancy, an ultrasound can detect "a little flutter in the area that will become the future heart of the baby," said Dr. Saima Aftab, medical director of the Fetal Care Center at Nicklaus Children's Hospital in Miami. This flutter happens because the group of cells that will become the future "pacemaker" of the heart gain the capacity to fire electrical signals, she said.

https://www.livescience.com/65501-fetal-heartbeat-at-6-weeks-explained.html

If your body continues to support and feed it, then that is something YOU are doing. No one is forcing you to do that. They only thing they are saying is that you can't kill the fetus.

so you believe that if the woman doesn't want the pregnancy her own body will just shut it down? ffs. And, yes, once you're pregnant you don't get a choice about being pregnant; if other things interfere with the pregnancy (stress, trauma, malnutrition, congenital defects etc...,) then your body may get rid of the embryo/fetus automatically, but certainly NOT BY ANY CONSCIOUS CHOICE. How many women with wanted pregnancies have endured spontaneous abortions (miscarriages) when all they had to do was want the end result of a living, breathing baby? Your premise is beyond flawed.
If the law declares you may not intervene to disrupt an unwanted pregnancy, then the law IS attempting to FORCE you to be pregnant. Plenty of women get pregnant due to failed contraception, misplaced trust in another, failure to properly take/use contraception, rape, having sex when under the influence (either or both of the people involved). Then, if they ... you know what, people get it. I'm wasting time addressing you; sensible people understand the points and your trolling is... simply that.

 

[ll74]

No. It has a right not to be murdered. That's all. If your body continues to support and feed it, then that is something YOU are doing. No one is forcing you to do that. They only thing they are saying is that you can't kill the fetus.

This is a dumb argument

 

[butters]

Precisely. Those who don't want to have an abortion don't have to have one. Those whose (supposed) religious beliefs are that it's a living human being at the point of conception can have those beliefs for themselves--without imposing them on others. Perhaps when they start showing that they have some concern for the baby's life after birth--which damn few of them are doing now--maybe they'd have a better argument.

^^this

Abortion is a complex issue. We all agree life is sacred, but at what point does a fetus become "life"? I don't think any of us know that answer for certain. Personally, outlawing abortion will just drive it underground and into back alleys, with poor results. That doesn't mean I'm in favor of it either---as humankind advances, there's a whole host of issues we should be surmounting.

this here in bold? that's where this all falls apart. Plenty of us here and in the larger, physical world, have no religious belief and–while many believe a wanted pregnancy is a great joy and cause for celebration–don't attribute to such nonsense. A wanted pregnancy's worth protecting as much as possible; an unwanted one, not so much and the earlier it can be shut down the better for everyone. I've had both wanted pregnancies brought to term and miscarried too often. For me, they were all wanted, but i thank my lucky stars that i never had to make the choice whether or not to terminate a pregnancy for WHATEVER reason. ALL without the input of religion.

 

[BabyBoomer50s]

^^this


this here in bold? that's where this all falls apart. Plenty of us here and in the larger, physical world, have no religious belief and–while many believe a wanted pregnancy is a great joy and cause for celebration–don't attribute to such nonsense. A wanted pregnancy's worth protecting as much as possible; an unwanted one, not so much and the earlier it can be shut down the better for everyone. I've had both wanted pregnancies brought to term and miscarried too often. For me, they were all wanted, but i thank my lucky stars that i never had to make the choice whether or not to terminate a pregnancy for WHATEVER reason. ALL without the input of religion.

Bitters and Angryana are on

 

[ll74]

I just think we can all agree that white life has been saved here this week.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1540852015693037568

 

[butters]

Week 3: Fertilization​

The sperm and egg unite in one of your fallopian tubes to form a one-celled entity called a zygote

Week 4: Implantation​

The rapidly dividing ball of cells — now known as a blastocyst — has begun to burrow into the uterine lining (endometrium). This process is called implantation.

Within the blastocyst, the inner group of cells will become the embryo. The outer layer will give rise to part of the placenta, which will nourish your baby throughout the pregnancy.

Week 5: Hormone levels increase​

The embryo is now made of three layers. The top layer — the ectoderm — will give rise to your baby's outermost layer of skin, central and peripheral nervous systems, eyes, and inner ears.
Your baby's heart and a primitive circulatory system will form in the middle layer of cells — the mesoderm. This layer of cells will also serve as the foundation for your baby's bones, ligaments, kidneys and much of the reproductive system.
The inner layer of cells — the endoderm — is where your baby's lungs and intestines will develop.

Week 6: The neural tube closes​

Week 11: Baby's genitals develop​

At the beginning of the 11th week of pregnancy, or the ninth week after conception, your baby's head still makes up about half of its length. However, your baby's body is about to catch up.
Your baby is now officially described as a fetus.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-...ption, your baby's brain and face are growing.

 

[butters]

https://www.mayoclinic.org/-/media/...4046_mcdc7_fetal_development_week4thu_jpg.png

6th week of pregnancy, or 4 weeks since conception, this is what an embryo actually looks like. This is not a person. This is a potential person, in exactly the same way an acorn is a potential oak tree; the only real differences are the fact this embryo is growing inside the body of another mammal and fulfilled, live mammals, have emotions.

 

[IrezumiKiss]

https://i.imgur.com/lJJJxIz.png
https://i.imgur.com/5KDOFkc.png

https://i.imgur.com/L0xMkmj.png

#ItsAllConnected

 

[butters]

props to Senator Lucas. every day, people are exhibiting bravery in the face of such shit thrown in their faces. the scum who send these kind of messages need hunting down and held accountable for their actions.

 

[phrodeau]

A 6-week embryo is so small, you could swallow one and not even notice.

 

[butters]

A 6-week embryo is so small, you could swallow one and not even notice.

this is why if there's to be an abortion, the earlier it's performed the better. I think it's around 60% of all American abortions nowadays are done through pills and before 11 weeks of pregnancy.

 

[Pad_Foot]

A 6-week embryo is so small, you could swallow one and not even notice.

Ahhh, but, when you pee everyone knows what you are carrying!’

Expect “pee stations” in airports in the “right to life” states, can’t let babies be lost out of state.
Trains? Ok. Doable

How do they stop automobiles??

Granted, rich females will be allowed to sign a slip of paper promising not to abort a child out of state or country.

Lord forbid you have a miscarriage!! You will have to prove it was God’s will. What God would allow a baby to die!?? Off with her head!!!

 

[Pad_Foot]

Protect your Castle with an AR15

Protect your womb with a coat hanger.

Nope!! Gotta outlaw coat hangers!!

Mother’s life? No!! She is obviously a slut.

 

[butters]

a young girl was raped and forced to go through with a termination by her rapist... she suffered huge guilt in the after years and more deeply embraced religion. Now, because of her issues, she says stuff like this:
"A lot of those ladies say: 'It's my body, my choice'. It's not your body; your body belongs to Christ."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...pc=U531&cvid=2a791f185c4d4521c79c5a2c85dde4f5


Abortion, to have or to not have, should almost always be a choice.

and, no, my body most certainly does NOT belong to christ or any other fucking make-believe persona. Their 'god' gave people 'free will', didn't it? He may lay claim to your soul (if he existed) but your body is yours and yours alone.