Do-Me Boys Rant

[naughty_stars]

"I'll LET you DO whatever you want to ME" Is a phrase that makes me want to tear my hair out.

It just seems indicative of this...total tunnel-vision thinking and action that, to quote a Reddit post I've once seen - "It’s driven by urgency, fantasy, and a deep need to be consumed without understanding the responsibility that comes with real submission."

That part. These men are fucking brats! But not even in the fun way, in the obnoxious, boundary pushing way. It is more obnoxious to me because it appears these men don't see themselves on the same level of misogynist pick up artists nor "vanilla" men trying to pick up women at a bar, but they're damn near worse. At least the sleazebags on the streets and bars might have a percentage of self awareness of how demanding they are.

"Fake Sub" is a tricky word. I don't think there's fake anything. I don't think the grand majority of these men are intentionally pretending to be something they aren't, they're just preoccupied with getting off. Like any other man. But I do think there are some tell-tale signs and behaviors of a man who is mostly being driven by that "need to be consumed:"

- Disinterest in sharing hard limits and limits in general (bonus points if they never ask about your limits as a dom/me)
- Topping from the bottom - "Go faster, do this, I want this, try this" (bonus points if they have no idea what a "service top" is)
- Complete lack of true collaboration on a scene or sexual play - "You can do whatever you want to me" (bonus points if they say this then proceed to top from the bottom anyways)
- Laying passive (bonus points if they prefer cowgirl For Some Crazy Reason)
- Testing and pushing boundaries - Manipulation, digs, sarcasm, disrespect (bonus points if they question your ability to dom/me)
- Zero knowledge of aftercare (bonus points if they expect after care, as if they are an infant)
- "USE ME" - That's it. That's the phrase.

There could be a lot more patience for these young men I could provide if there was a baseline level of respect for their partners, but that's the key problem here. As soon as their dicks get hard the politics and politeness go out the window, which is antithetical to their submission. Just because you like having sex performed on you does not make you a submissive! You could be a pain slut, you could be a masochist - fuck me, you could just be a bottom. But the cynic in me knows what the actual answer is.

They're lazy. They are broken. They are weak willed and they are terrified of having bad sex. So they force the standard onto someone else - someone who they identify as sexier, more knowledgeable, and someone who they view as more willing to put in the work. They view submission as easy. Which most submissive would agree is fucking laughable. It is male-centered selfishness which has been forced upon them by pretty much all porn they watch and kink they interact with.

Is it solvable? Probably. It is exhausting to solve, though. Most of the time the solution to fixing men's behaviors is not capitulating to what their demands are. Do not give in and give them anything based on their behavior, and make sure they know it.
Leave it to a damn therapist.

 

[PaxNurgle]

It certainly sounds like you have had some bad experiences with submissive men. That is unfortunate. It is a hard thing when guys do have these feelings but not enough of an outlet for them, and are not good at really communicating with or bonding in a meaningful emotional way with their partner. I hope you do not judge all submissive men this way.

 

[switchersm]

I've read this 3 times and learned a few new words like obnoxiousor sleazabags (english is not my native language). I've also read the post on reddit and I agree totall with your opinion. These men in "Sub-Frenzy" (such an apt description for there behavior) crash many threads and also chats (take a look at chat rooms in the lit chat) inconsiderate and selfish.

These 2 sentences have me mostly impressed
"...total tunnel-vision thinking and action that, to quote a Reddit post I've once seen - "It’s driven by urgency, fantasy, and a deep need to be consumed without understanding the responsibility that comes with real submission."

It is male-centered selfishness which has been forced upon them by pretty much all porn they watch and kink they interact with."

 

[PaxNurgle]

Well, I can certainly understand male sub frenzy, having gone through it; it is a common thing for guys who are "new" to the idea of BDSM; they want to experience it firsthand and they want it all. And they forget that the idea still is to forge a connection, a chemistry, with their partner.

I don't necessarily think it is wrong to have kinky submissive feelings as a guy. At least, it shouldn't be. The original post seems to imply that it is. I do think that this kind of genunine, BDSM-centered relationship that submissive men desire is VERY hard to find for a guy, and there are common mistakes that newly awakened male subs make- many which she lists above. Respect, or lack thereof, and communication (or lack thereof) for the partner being a key thing.

Communication between partners before being placed in a compromising position SHOULD happen; this is not "Topping form the bottom." Doing so within a scene, however.... that's different. Expressing limits should absolutely happen beforehand. Many new submissive guys think they don't have limits- trust me, everyone does whether they know it or not.

 

[Purple_Fronds]

Really interesting thread, and I think it’s encapsulated in this.

There could be a lot more patience for these young men I could provide if there was a baseline level of respect for their partners

I think this is indicative of the wider societal problems, people are so focussed on what they think they need/want/crave that they no longer see the very real human opposite them. As the statement says there’s just not enough respect.

As far as

I'll LET you DO whatever you want to ME" Is a phrase that makes me want to tear my hair out.

I see this a lot from both male and female submissives. Sometimes it’s just lazy and mostly harmless but it certainly puts more pressure on the dominant.

Hopefully people can see that having limits and willingness to use a safe word is a virtue.

However, I do think that one of the main differences between male and female submissives when they’re in the I’ll do anything state is that females come at it from the wanting to please and males are still driven by their ego, proving they can take it.

 

[ChloeOfCascadia]

They're lazy. They are broken.

Is it solvable? Probably. It is exhausting to solve, though.

Yeah, a lot of people enter into romantic and/or sexual relationships with really terrible levels of basic knowledge, or the wisdom of what the rules and expectations and ethics are, or awareness of their partner's needs or what their limits are.... etc.

I hear a lot from people about their first time experiences- my personality type is very talkative in private one on one conversations and I have few taboos or hang ups on discussion topics and I'm a good listener when someone has something intelligent to say. (INFJ-T in case you buy in to that, I do to an extent that it seems to be true, but it may be a more complex horoscope for most people, I can only speak to, it's dead on accurate for me...)

But I digress.

It sounds as though you've run into some men for whom the fantasy of being a submissive is all they have, they don't have any or much in terms of experience, so, they are basically not housebroken yet.

It's like getting a rescue puppy, it might be very not used to being owned, the puppy might pee all over the carpet, and may have a lot of difficulty learning.

Like you I don't think it is intentional. If it is due to conscious decisions on their part, it's inaction and laziness in learning more about their kink.

For me, I'm a service top, and I had been under the impression for THE LONGEST that this meant I was a submissive.

I'm not. Not in any meaningful manner, besides I love giving pleasure, but that is not synonymous with being a sub, not remotely. It has overlap but also a lot of not overlap. It's like 50/50 maybe.

But, I wasn't part of any formal or even informal D/s community so I had not the foggiest idea what the proper terms were.

I also had it in my head that dom and sadist were the same thing, so I very much did not want to identify as a dom.

And since my dom and her sub behaviors happened spontaneously and without planning or forethought or prior discussion, the D/s was very informal and uninformed and naive a bit.

But, I have lots of experience now with several romantic partners and now, a better and more learned understanding.

But I didn't do the research, for a long time. It never came up.

It was fine how it was, at least, from my POV.

Not everyone wants a dom, and those that do, might want one that is kinkier or more aggressive or uses more demeaning language or more painful or degrading play than me. I am not everyone's cup of tea.

I might have rubbed folks the wrong way and may naivete and lack of knowledge of the rules or even the correct terminology for being a dom might have driven someone up the wall who never told me, I don't know.

I will cop to being guilty of not having a clue at one point in my life.

And also, to sympathize with the OP and to make a general and I think correct point, it's not your fault these folks have no experience or the wrong attitude, and it's not on you to correct the world of men.

Sometimes there's no helping a general population group.

Best I can offer in terms of concrete constructive advice is to have a conversation about it, before you begin a relationship, so they understand the rules and responsibilities more fully.

Because they might never have had that convo before.

And it's possible that convo informs the person enough to be acceptable to you as a partner.

It is the least, and also, perhaps the most, you could be expected to do? Or close to it?

You have the info they lack, before you start, you could offer to share it. If they don't want to listen, at that point, it really isn't on you at all.

You didn't create the problem, it isn't your responsibility to fix lazy or broken men, and you did offer to help.

Right now, 2/3 of those at minimum are true, from what I can see. Can always give that last third a try before you give up on subbie men too soon.

But it might be too late for some of those men particularly if they don't ever want to learn the actual rules.

If they're not willing to listen they're not ready to be a sub (or a dom, or in any relationship in general of ANY KIND, romantic sexual or otherwise...)

So, I would wash my hands of someone if they can't listen.

But I am rather generous in trying to teach and coach and be a good partner to those who have chemistry with me and can listen well.

I think that's fair.

Not to say one of us is right, or the other, or both or neither, what do you think, OP?

Is this a reasonable approach?