Do certain vows mean more?

[Calamity Jane]

Note... this is not a thread seeking justification for any past, current or future actions on my part. I am not looking for advice. This is asked out of honest curiousity.

I would like to ask people to read the post and then answer, before reading everyone else's thoughts. I'd like honest, gut level responses, not arguments about what others think.

There are so many threads on the board about adultery, cheating on a spouse, whether it's justifiable or not. Often, someone mentions wedding vows, and how it's so important not to break them, because that's breaking a promise you made before 'god n everbody'.

The vows for my wedding included promises to Love, Honor, Cherish and Forsake all others. There was also the bit about in sickness and in health, for richer or poorer.

Taken in context, the forsaking all others is thrown in there with a bunch of other promises. It's not mentioned as a seperate, more important promise than the others. Why do we uphold physical fidelity like it's the only reason for marriage, as if it's THE vow not to break?

A spouse who claims their partner had an affair gets all kinds of sympathy and empathy and 'oh, god what a rat bastard he is'. Does a spouse who claims their partner no longer cherishes them receive the same? What about a spouse who no longer feels honored?

When we take vows, do we assign importance to each one? Do we decide that there is one vow that MUST be kept, even if all others are broken, and as long as that one is intact, all is well?

Do we even think about our vows once we've said them? Do we wake up in the morning thinking "I promised to cherish this person forever. Can I do that?

Do you feel cherished? Honored? Loved? Does your spouse hold you when you're sick? Do you support each other in hard financial times? Is it ok not to do those things as long as you're not doing the cleaning lady?

*edited to add... after your initial post, you're welcome to come back and argue, I'm afraid this is starting to seem like a thread only I'm allowed to question responses on*

 

[lavender]

 

[sexy-girl]

like lavender im not sure what i can say but is a great thread and an interesting way to look at it ... i guess i just would say two wrongs dont make a right but i would feel all the vows should be equally important

 

[Kitte]

I would like to ask people to read the post and then answer, before reading everyone else's thoughts.

I think the reason it maintains more importance because there is a physical action involved. It involves a calculated manuver. Spouse X fucks SoNSo Spouse Y has been cheated on. In all other cases it is usually a slow and painful journey but there is no one moment where you can say Spouse X does not cherish Spouse Y.
JMO

 

[BigDawg69]

I do not feel loved, honored or cherished and have not for a long time. I think that can be said for alot of the posters here. I also think that the breaking of those vows by their spouses is what leads to breaking the fidelity vow. But then that doesn't necessarily answer the question at hand.

Why do we hold the fidelity vow on a different level? Perhaps because it is less subjective more objective. Being cherished, honored and loved are feelings emotions that are felt and expressed in as many different ways as there are people to express them. Equally they are percieved and felt in as many different ways. How I express my love in small simple ways may not be enough for my partner. Likewise my partner constantly screaming about how much of a lazy-ass slacker looser I am breaks the vow of honor in my mind, but not perhaps in hers. But fidelity? Now that is definite, real tangible. You kiss, caress, make love to someone else that is clear. Perhaps as feeling emotional beings it is just easier to see the line with fidelity than the gray area of the others?

Just my thoughts. I'll now go back and read what others have written.

 

[Never]

pagancowgirl:
"Taken in context, the forsaking all others is thrown in there with a bunch of other promises. It's not mentioned as a seperate, more important promise than the others. Why do we uphold physical fidelity like it's the only reason for marriage, as if it's THE vow not to break?"

Because, historically, it was the only vow of importance. For several centuries, marriage basically meant that the woman couldn't have sex with another man and produce bastards. The idea that a marriage should include love is quite new, not too long ago many marriages were arranged. Cherish? Again, in America there used to be laws regulating how a man could beat his wife.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I realize the historical point of view is skewed toward fidelity. What I'm trying to figure out though is why today, in our culture it is still 'the most important vow'.

Dawg, I totally get what you're saying. When my spouse and I were in counseling, we talked a lot about whether or not we were loving each other in ways the other person could recognize as love. It's a totally subjective kind of thing, I know.


*edited because I shouldn't try to post and get the kids dressed at the same time.*

 

[Cheyenne]

Sorry, I'm not married so I can't answer. But it is a good question. People get divorced over all of the vows though, I think. Not every marriage ends because one partner cheated. Sometimes those other broken vows are the reason.

 

[Pixie]

Hmmm...I'm not married, but have been engaged and lived with someone for almost ten years. I think the reason for that particular vow getting "special" importance, is for the fact that it's the one easiest to state broken. (I'm hoping I make sense, since English isn't my mothertongue...)

When can one say they're not cherished or honoured anymore? Saying that they've been cheated on is more clear cut. And it involves a physical action on the part of the cheater. Peoples perceptions of being cherished and honoured can vary...and I feel it's after one feels the other vows have been broken, that they end up breaking the last one.

But then, that's just my point of view *shrug*

 

[Calamity Jane]

Sorry, I'm not married so I can't answer.

Sometimes those other broken vows are the reason.

Go ahead and answer. If/when you get married, will you hold all of your vows to the same level of importance?

Of course, other vows being broken are often the cause of splits. But, if you were talking with a girlfriend who was contemplating divorce, and when you asked her why she thought her marriage was failing she replied "Because he just doesn't cherish me anymore." Would you be more or less supportive of her decision than if she said "Because he's been sleeping with Sally for the past 6 months."?

 

[Purrde Flower]

In the time that I was married I got to see many different sides of other married couples lives.

To me I believe that when you marry someone you should be faithful and love them the best you can. Try and be a little extra considerate everyonce in a while and make them feel special. Faith, love, hope and trust play a huge part as well as respect..

Each marriage is different. If everyone thought the same it would be a very boreing place and I'm sure lit woulod prob not exist and that is a very dull world for me I think that as long as the couple has the faith, love, hope, trust and most importantly respect for each other then it could be a marriage made to last.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I think that as long as the couple has the faith, love, hope, trust and most importantly respect for each other then it could be a marriage made to last.

Ok, granted. But that's not really the question.

I respect the hell out of my husband. I don't cherish him. Respect isn't part of the vows, cherish is. So, everyday that I wake up and don't cherish him, I'm breaking my wedding vows. Are you saying that's ok, as long as I respect and love him?

 

[RawHumor]

I think that part of it is that, if your spouse cheats on you, then it is pretty much assumed that he/she doesn't cherish or respect you (at least as a life-long partner) anymore.

I can't imagine being in a love-less marriage. And I would feel as much for a person who says that their spouse said that they don't love him/her anymore as I would for someone whose spouse had cheated.

The honor and respect are important too, though. But I think that honoring your partner and forsaking all others pretty much go together.

Is this making sense to anyone who isn't me?

 

[brokenbrainwave]

thank you for that post PCG. when I married my wife I made a promise to her, her father, and to the wonderful fate that brought her to me that I would always always be by her side. I gave them my word and at the time that was all I had.

 

[Purrde Flower]

Is this making sense to anyone who isn't me?

Do I get something if I say yes? hehe. prize or no prize I understand!

 

[RawHumor]

Do I get something if I say yes? hehe. prize or no prize I understand!

Take a look at my av.

 

[Calamity Jane]

I can't imagine being in a love-less marriage. And I would feel as much for a person who says that their spouse said that they don't love him/her anymore as I would for someone whose spouse had cheated.

Is this making sense to anyone who isn't me?

Yeah, it makes sense.

I totally agree that a loveless marriage is hell on the people involved. There's a difference though between loving someone and cherishing them. I'm perfectly capable of loving people that I wouldn't ever say that I cherished.

Main Entry: cher.ish
Pronunciation: 'cher-ish
Function: transitive verb
Date: 14th century
1 a : to hold dear : feel or show affection for b : to keep or cultivate with care and affection : NURTURE
2 : to entertain or harbor in the mind deeply and resolutely
synonym see APPRECIATE
- cher.ish.able /-i-sh&-b&l/ adjective
- cher.ish.er /-i-sh&r/ noun

I cherish my children. I harbor them in my mind deeply and resolutely. They're a part of literally every single decision I make. How many of us can say that about our spouses?

 

[Purrde Flower]

*dreamy sigh* that will do



Back to the topic!


It depends on how you look at your vows. Respect and honor fall into the same catagory for me. Cherish falls under faith, hope and love.

 

[RawHumor]

I cherish my children. I harbor them in my mind deeply and resolutely. They're a part of literally every single decision I make. How many of us can say that about our spouses?

I can. And I agree with you.

But you had asked why the cheating is viewed as more of an offense than not loving, honoring and cherishing.

I think that what Pixie said is part of it. Cheating is a physical act, not just an emotional one.

But I also think that, to cheat, you are also lying to your spouse, dishonoring him/her, and that in order to reach that point, you couldn't love and cherish him/her the way that you perhaps should.

Also, it's a lot easier to undo a temporary lapse of cherishing than it is to undo an affair.

 

[PepperminTrish]

Man alive, I wish I could have just passed this thread by but I just can't. It's a very good question/thread PaganCowGirl.

For myself, ALL of the vows are just as important. I don't think the idea of finding out my husband was out fucking anything would hurt anywhere near as much as the moment I realized that he didn't RESPECT (or honor) and he certainly didn't CHERISH me.

When he started walking through doors before me and letting them (literally) slam in my face, I knew there was no repsect anymore. When I was sick as a dog and not able to get off the couch for two days and he never even looked twice, I knew he didn't cherish me. It hit me that I just didn't matter. Personally, I would have rather he'd have been unfaithful.

Regardless of which vow was broken, for me the end result is the same.

I have no idea if this even answered your question. If not, my apologies.

 

[brokenbrainwave]

They're a part of literally every single decision I make. How many of us can say that about our spouses?

I can say this and be 100% honest about it. Maybe I got lucky, maybe she did also. We have the same viewpoints on finances, child rearing, politics, and yes even sports. Some might say it is dull, but yet we manage to have spirited debates over the things we dont agree on. She is my partner, and as I have stated before, you can break marriage down into a perfect example of a business partnership. For the business to prosper all parties have to be involved and in agreement. They must share the same goals, ideals, and each has a responsibilty to the other.

 

[Calamity Jane]

Also, it's a lot easier to undo a temporary lapse of cherishing than it is to undo an affair.

What if it's not temporary? What if your spouse has just fallen out of that 'deeply and resolutely category' and you can't put them back into it? What if it's not cherishing that you don't do anymore, but respecting/honoring? What if it's the sickness and health part or the richer or poorer part that you're failing in?

When you got hitched, did you give equal weight to each of the vows? Do you still give them equal weight?

As a for instance. Overall, Sally's marriage is happy, she loves her husband and her children, they get along ok, it's not perfect, but it's liveable. Sally's husband doesn't respect her opinion on weighty matters, in fact, he often doesn't even ask her opinion. Instead, he calls his father and they discuss the issues, and then he informs Sally of the way things will be. This drives Sally crazy, but it's been going on for years. The only vow that has been broken is the one promising honor to one's spouse. All other things being ok, can we let the lapse in this one vow slide?

 

[brokenbrainwave]

PCG, in Sally's case it is a matter of personal choice. How does SHE feel about this? Mad enough to lay the law down? Unappreciated in her lot, but knows things are really not that bad? Is there anything she can do about this? Has she told her husband how this makes her feel?

Am I defending his actions, not at all, but in this case if he does not know his actions create a problem, then its a matter of failed communication.

Should this lapse be let to slide, of course not, but what if he does know and refuses to change? Is it really something worth tossing a marriage aside over?

 

[RawHumor]

As a for instance. Overall, Sally's marriage is happy, she loves her husband and her children, they get along ok, it's not perfect, but it's liveable. Sally's husband doesn't respect her opinion on weighty matters, in fact, he often doesn't even ask her opinion. Instead, he calls his father and they discuss the issues, and then he informs Sally of the way things will be. This drives Sally crazy, but it's been going on for years. The only vow that has been broken is the one promising honor to one's spouse. All other things being ok, can we let the lapse in this one vow slide?

To some people, the idea of respecting their spouse means different things than it does to others.

Some men have an ingrained feeling that women are inferior. It's not right, but it's existent nonetheless.

I think that the sickness & health and richer & poorer are just details. If I can't love and cherish you when you're really sick, then, IMHO, I don't believe that I truly loved and cherished you when you were healthy.

I doubt any of us puts them all on an equal plane, but we might all have a different idea of which is the most important.

If I didn't feel respected, then it'd be tough for me to feel honored.

Oh, and when I mention loving your spouse, in this context, I don't mean just to love them, I mean to love them as you would love your life-long partner. I love my friends, but not in the same way I love my wife.

 

[Calamity Jane]

PCG, in Sally's case it is a matter of personal choice. How does SHE feel about this? Mad enough to lay the law down? Unappreciated in her lot, but knows things are really not that bad? Is there anything she can do about this? Has she told her husband how this makes her feel?

Is it really something worth tossing a marriage aside over?

Let's assume that to Sally, the vows all hold equal weight. So this 'breakage of the vows' is the exact same to her as if her husband was fucking the maid every other Tuesday, or smacking her around when he was upset.

She's confronted him about it, he's promised to try and consult her more often, but it never happens. Or, it happens briefly, and then the old pattern is reestablished.