DIVORCE- When do you say enough is enough?

[talk2mee6]

Just want to pose a couple of questions about DIVORCE......to see your opinions.

1. When is it time to call it quits?

2. Is it worse for children to live through a divorce? Or through a miserable marriage?

 

[EJFan]

1. you call it quits when one or both of you stop listening to the other. if you can't listen you can't get through the tough patches.

2. it's tougher on children growing up with parents "faking" love for one another. the child (or children) will be much better off with divorced parents who have inner peace apart from one another than inner stress living together. the child can sense it no matter how hard you try to conceal it. further, there's always the chance that tension will boil over at an inopportune moment.

 

[wicked woman]

Having been divorced I don't think there is a 'general' answer to your first question. I think anyone involved in a situation where this is a possibility needs to look deep into their heart and decide.

As for your second question, I believe children aren't stupid. They know when their parents aren't happy. I can still recall decades ago one of my nephews telling me he thought his dad didn't love him (mostly because his parents, in my opinion, should have divorced...which they later did).

 

[eudaemonia]

In retrospect, it was a very good thing when my parents split up and later divorced. The fighting was loud, fierce and physical, and I witnessed far too much before I was about 7. Life was not easy after the divorce, but it was far more stable and predictable. Stability and predictability is what kids need.

And yes, kids can smell phoniness a mile away.

 

[silverwhisper]

talk2mee6: i'm hoping that you aren't asking this question because it's something you're facing. my sympathies if that's the case.

1. as others noted, that depends i think for each couple. for example, i'm very embarrassed to admit this but i once cheated on my wife. i can blame that on the alcohol, i can blame it on a couple things, but the truth of the matter is that i was a selfish asshole. it was wrong. my wife's view however is that what we have together is worth fighting through that and she chose to forgive me for it. for us, this made sense. that isn't true for every couple and i won't presume to say that it should be.

2. AFAICT, divorce is better than a sham marriage. every single bit of anecdotal evidence i possess forces me inexorablyl to that conclusion.

ed

 

[Bandit58]

Just want to pose a couple of questions about DIVORCE......to see your opinions.

1. When is it time to call it quits?

2. Is it worse for children to live through a divorce? Or through a miserable marriage?

1) When you look into the future and can only see a dull grey sameness.......when you realise you have nothing in common with the other person.......I also felt a sense of desperation, that my life was passing me by and I had nothing to look forward to.

2) When I finally decided to leave my husband my 18 year old son said to me "Why did you wait so long?" He saw much more than I thought he did. The way his father treated me was emotionally abusive. Both kids (my daughter was 14 at the time) were perfectly ok with the split. Daughter chose to stay with her father on the farm with her animals, but we saw each other regularly until I moved to Australia when she was 16. We are still in regular contact by phone (she has no internet access but is going away to school soon).

Both kids coped with the separation pretty well but then they were in their teens and one was living away from home anyway. Part of the reason I stayed was because of the children. Both of them are happy well adjusted young adults now.

If I could have got up the courage to leave earlier I probably should have - in the end my health both physical and mental was affected (stomach ulcer and depression).

 

[SweetErika]

Just want to pose a couple of questions about DIVORCE......to see your opinions.

1. When is it time to call it quits?

For me, some of the big indicators might be:
- We don't love and/or like each other (indicators might be consistently disrespectful behavior, unwillingness to communicate, not wanting/trying to connect, inability to compromise, tons of resentment, etc.)
- There's any type of abuse
- Staying will harm either/both of us in any way long-term
- We've given it our best effort and can't come to a resolution on fundamental issues

2. Is it worse for children to live through a divorce? Or through a miserable marriage?

With the exception of a very few, specific instances, I believe dissolution/divorce is always better than a miserable marriage for kids. I probably saw less overt anger and fighting than my peers with happy parents, but I definitely picked up on the resentment, dysfunctional traits, behaviors, and relationship model before my parents divorced when I was 10. Despite lots of counselling and understanding the problems well, I still have to fight against repeating their behaviors, reactions, and patterns in my own life.

There's no doubt the breakup and divorce was horrible for me at the time, and I grieved the loss for a couple of years. However, it enabled me to have a better life and a healthy role model for part of my childhood, and it wasn't too long before I recognized it was for the best. My mom has said she wished she would have left when I was four, and I couldn't agree more considering the effects the relationship had on both of us.

 

[TBKahuna123]

I'm pretty much opposed to divorce because I think it's too easy to get one in this day and age. I don't think a lot people realize when they get into a marriage that it is going to be tough. Marriage requires hard work to make it not just last, but last happily for both parties. I agree with my Catholic beliefs that marriage is a sacred bond and shouldn't be entered into lightly. That said, there are times when marriages go south, when it becomes clear that two people just are not equipped to live with each other and that it just isn't going to work out. That's when divorce is warranted.

So when is that? I believe that when both parties ahve tried to work out there problems and failed, that is when it is time to look at divorce. This is more than just talking about it, I'm talking seeking counselling and doing the really hard stuff, like compromising. I don't believe that infidelity is automatically ground for divorce, unless the underlying problems that caused that infidelity can not be fixed. We aren't talking those guys who can't keep their pants on here, but relationship problems that drive one person to seek solace elsewhere for whatever reason. If those problems can not be worked out and both parties can honestly say they have tried everything they can, then divorce is warranted.

Now I make a special exception for abusive relationships. This is the one place where I don't believe there can be a work around. If one partner is serially abusive to the other, then that person is not going to change. I've seen it tried and it's never worked in my experience. Get out asap, before someone really gets hurt.

Is it harder with kids? Of course it is, kids are emotionally fragile and take things harder. Most of the time kids can't understand why their parents can't just love each other, especially younger children. The same can't be said in abusive relationships though. In this situation it's much easier on the kids to go through a divorce, even if they arent' the ones being abused.

 

[SweetErika]

Now I make a special exception for abusive relationships. This is the one place where I don't believe there can be a work around. If one partner is serially abusive to the other, then that person is not going to change. I've seen it tried and it's never worked in my experience. Get out asap, before someone really gets hurt.

Is it harder with kids? Of course it is, kids are emotionally fragile and take things harder. Most of the time kids can't understand why their parents can't just love each other, especially younger children. The same can't be said in abusive relationships though. In this situation it's much easier on the kids to go through a divorce, even if they arent' the ones being abused.

This isn't really on the original topic, but this portion of your response made me question: What really constitutes abuse?

Some examples that come to mind... Is witholding sex, or neglecting a spouse's sexual needs for a long time abusive? How about spending so much time on work and hobbies that you only see your spouse a few waking hours a month? Is consistently failing to give a spouse any of the affection or attention they've asked for abuse? Is staying in a relationship with a serial cheater, or someone who makes you really unhappy self-abuse? Discarding legal definitions for the moment, is it abusive to stay in a relationship you know is negatively affecting your child(ren) (i.e. could seriously impact their personalities or relationships for a long time)?

Kinda interesting to think about .

 

[Emerald Eyed]

I have been divrced myself and am also the child of divorced parents.

I decided it was time to leave when his promises to change never happened. He was not a nice man.


My Parents.....Thank Goodness they divorced. I can not imagine them together.

 

[Eilan]

1. When is it time to call it quits? I think that I'm inclined to go with wicked woman on this one. That answer's going to vary for every couple.

In the case of my first marriage, the decision to separate wasn't my decision. I begged my ex to go to counseling, whatever it would take to work things out, because at the time I couldn't imagine a life without him. He said it was too late for counseling. Once it became obvious that we weren't going to reconcile, I was the one who started the legal end of things, and at that point, he started feeling like his decision to leave was overly hasty. I'd moved on by then.

2. Is it worse for children to live through a divorce? Or through a miserable marriage?As a product of a miserable, abusive marriage that lasted about 17 years longer than it should have, I'm definitely going to have to go with "miserable marriage" here, though going through the divorce was pretty hellish in its own way.

I was a reconciliation baby--conceived after a brief separation that took place less than three months after the wedding. I knew from the time I was about three or four years old that my parents' marriage wasn't quite right, but like most three year olds, I was crazy about both my parents, and I didn't want my family to split up. I can remember, after a particularly violent episode, my brother and I crying hysterically because my mom wanted to take us and leave and we didn't want to leave our dad.

Years later, my mom "blamed" my brother and me for making her stay in a marriage that she didn't really want to be in.

When my ex and I split up, our older daughter, who was 2 1/2 at the time, went through a period of about six months in which she complained about various aches and pains that had no apparent physical cause. She also wanted to sleep with me at night. While that was a rocky period for her, I think that she's better off the way things are now than she would have been if my ex and I had stayed together. We (and our respective spouses) have a very cordial working relationship when it comes to the kids.

 

[TBKahuna123]

This isn't really on the original topic, but this portion of your response made me question: What really constitutes abuse?

Oooo really good question. To me abuse is something that is detrimental to the wellbeing of the person, but also one which is done with malicious intent.

Some examples that come to mind... Is witholding sex, or neglecting a spouse's sexual needs for a long time abusive?

This depends. Neglecting someone's needs may not be abusive, it may just be that the person is selfish or just not interested in sex. Withholding sex though could be considered abusive because it is done with malicious intent.

How about spending so much time on work and hobbies that you only see your spouse a few waking hours a month? Is consistently failing to give a spouse any of the affection or attention they've asked for abuse?

Again, depends on the intent. I know I'm guilty from time to time of ignoring my wife because of work/hobbies. I wouldn't call this being abusive because I dont' do it with the intent to hurt her. It goes both ways to due to our crazy schedules. It's definitely detrimental though and something that we work through together when it starts to happens.

Is staying in a relationship with a serial cheater, or someone who makes you really unhappy self-abuse?

Could be, but I consider serial cheaters to be emotionally abusive and grounds for divorce.

Discarding legal definitions for the moment, is it abusive to stay in a relationship you know is negatively affecting your child(ren) (i.e. could seriously impact their personalities or relationships for a long time)?

This one is a tough call. Maybe, I don't know. I can see it both ways.

I guess to me the determining factor between abuse and neglect is the presence of malicious intent. Even if the intent is done selfconsciously because of the abuser's nature, it's still done to hurt, manipulate or control the abusee. I guess that's where the difference comes in.

Also, because of this intent I don't think these problems can be worked out. I believe that counselling and desire can fix most things in a marriage, but when it's in someone's nature to be abusive, there's not a whole lot of hope.

 

[FurryFury]

Just want to pose a couple of questions about DIVORCE......to see your opinions.

1. When is it time to call it quits?

2. Is it worse for children to live through a divorce? Or through a miserable marriage?

In general kids don't want to know you have a miserable marriage but even if they do know most kids want their parents together. I was an exception to that rule. I was so happy when my parents went their separate ways because they were so unhappy. I was crushed when they got back together. I was happier in a less volatile situation even though my mom was crying every day.

When is it time to call it quits? That depends on the people involved. For me there is very little that would cause me to call it quits. I'm stupid loyal.

If I were healthier I would have pulled the plug on my first marriage, the sooner the better for all involved but I didn't and wouldn't.

In my opinion, when one of the two people refuses to try it's time to quit but as long as you are both honestly trying to communicate and work on things there is always hope.

That's my two cents.

Fury

 

[Hisbabydoll26]

Just want to pose a couple of questions about DIVORCE......to see your opinions.

1. When is it time to call it quits?

2. Is it worse for children to live through a divorce? Or through a miserable marriage?

Seeing as I would never *not judging anyone here* get a Divorce..

1. Call it quits when you and your SO know you have done EVERYTHING to save the marriage and then waited to make sure none of those things worked.

2. Depends on how mature they parents are.

 

[SamhainDisciple]

Just want to pose a couple of questions about DIVORCE......to see your opinions.

1. When is it time to call it quits?

2. Is it worse for children to live through a divorce? Or through a miserable marriage?

It's time to call it quits when you are both obviously not happy and are unable to reconcile your differences.

I don't feel living through a divorce is all that hard on a kid. My real father beat the snot out of my mother the first 8 years of my life...watching that happen was a lot harder on me than watching him leave! And when she finally remarried, I had the chance to finish growing up in a loving, healthy home. Trust me, if you're miserable, your kids know it and it makes them miserable too because they know their family is "not right."

 

[Mr. Mann]

When to call it quits?

I think that is probably something that only a person in that situation can answer.

Which is worse on the kids, divorce or a miserable marriage?

I'm sure that depends on how miserable the divorce is or how miserable the marriage is. It is largely a matter of the lesser of two evils.

Certainly, some marraiges are so bad that divorce can be a better option. OTOH, divorce can also be extremely nasty and bitter.

I thought one of the above posters put it extremely well when they wrote that much depended on the maturity of the people involved.

These are good questions, but I don't feel there are any simple universal answers to them. Too much depends on the situation and the people involved.

 

[Eilan]

I don't feel there are any simple universal answers to them. Too much depends on the situation and the people involved.

I think you're right.

I don't feel living through a divorce is all that hard on a kid.

I think it depends on the people getting the divorce and the temperament of the children.