Diesel Engines - Europe and the USA.

[LovetoGiveRoses]

40% of the cars sold in Europe are diesels. They get better mileage and in Europe, the diesel fuel costs less than gas making it a "good deal". There are tradeoffs though. What do you think?

From CNN:

But many environmentalists argue that diesel engines are not nature's cure. America's dirtier diesel fuel has roughly ten times as much acid rain-producing sulfur than European diesel fuel. Diesel engines also produce more nitrogen oxide, which creates ozone and can cause respiratory problems.

New U.S. regulations will make cleaner diesel fuel available in a few years, and "particle traps" under development could catch most of the dirty emissions from diesel engines before they are released into the air.

Economic hurdles also remain. Unlike in most of Europe, diesel and gasoline fuel is sold at nearly the same price in the United States. Americans could save money with diesel because they would use 25 to 40 percent less, but that would be offset by the higher costs of diesel engines, the automakers said.

And with the price of fuel up to three times as cheap in the United States than in parts of Europe, fuel economy is a low priority for many Americans.

J.D. Powers Walter McManus said that, as cleaner diesel engines become available over the next few years, diesel-powered vehicles could account for as much as 12 percent of U.S. new car and truck sales by around 2007, he said.

 

[Azwed]

I would be a diesel powered car if more were avaliable in the US but as far as I know right now the only two cars with diesels are Mercedes and Volkswagen.

The Mercedes diesel is very expensive and the Volkswagen is highly underpowered.

If I ever need to buy a truck I would get a diesel. Right now if I had to pick it would probably be the new Duramax Izuzu Diesel that Chevy uses. The new C-Series Cummins Diesel would be good too though.

Cummins is also coming out with the first EGR(Exhaus Gas Recirculation) valve for diesels right now. The EGR will be avaliable on the C-Series motors and will help reduce NOx(Nitrogen Oxide) emissions.

The problem is that the cleaner more efficient European diesels can't run on the dirty US spec Diesel fuel. We won't see any really good diesel cars untill this problem is solved.


Now why do you think we have this high sulfur diesel and most of the rest of the world has low sulfur? The high sulfur is easier to make so it is less expensive and diesel has a lower profit margin then gasoline so oil companies have no incentive to make people use more of it.

 

[just pet]

In Nepal and India, diesel is the main fuel. You can't breathe the air. Your eyes sting. In New Delhi, the pollution got so bad from the diesel, it is outlawed in the city until evening.

 

[Myrrdin]

As far as cost goes, on the UK forecourt, diesol is only around 1 penny a litre less than petrol.
Diesols are most poular in the 4 wheel drive, work vans and SUV market. Also popular in rural areas as we're allowed to have our own bulk store , usually around three to six hundred gallons, and so get bulk deliveries.

The cheapest and cleanest road fuel at the moment is liquid petroleum gas or LPG.

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~wsb/barnetcarcare/faq.html#whatislpg

 

[Azwed]

As far as cost goes, on the UK forecourt, diesol is only around 1 penny a litre less than petrol.
Diesols are most poular in the 4 wheel drive, work vans and SUV market. Also popular in rural areas as we're allowed to have our own bulk store , usually around three to six hundred gallons, and so get bulk deliveries.

The cheapest and cleanest road fuel at the moment is liquid petroleum gas or LPG.

http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~wsb/barnetcarcare/faq.html#whatislpg

Yeah LPG or propane is a bitch to store though. Many of the vehicles at tech are natural gas vehicles and I have worked on a few other LPG powered cars before. LPG and other similar types of fuels are great for fleet vehicles. You can have your own dispensing station on the property and can by the LPG in bulk to save even more money.

One problem with LPG is that it has a much lower joule(read energy) content per unit volume then gasoline does. I think it is around half as much which means you will only get about half the Miles per gallon that you would with gasoline.

 

[Carp]

Yeah LPG or propane is a bitch to store though. Many of the vehicles at tech are natural gas vehicles and I have worked on a few other LPG powered cars before. LPG and other similar types of fuels are great for fleet vehicles. You can have your own dispensing station on the property and can by the LPG in bulk to save even more money.

One problem with LPG is that it has a much lower joule(read energy) content per unit volume then gasoline does. I think it is around half as much which means you will only get about half the Miles per gallon that you would with gasoline.

I think it is Toyota that is selling/soon selling an LPG car. Along with that, you get a device that hooks up to your home natural gas supply to fuel your car- not a speedy fill up, (overnight) but it does the job. And very cheap to fuel that way.

 

[badasschick]

Diesel!!!

 

[ma_guy]

If more people would use bio-diesel the sulpher emissions would drop to nothing. I've yet to see anyone find a true negative for bio-diesel yet very few have heard of the stuff.

http://www.biodiesel.com

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Yeah LPG or propane is a bitch to store though. Many of the vehicles at tech are natural gas vehicles and I have worked on a few other LPG powered cars before. LPG and other similar types of fuels are great for fleet vehicles. You can have your own dispensing station on the property and can by the LPG in bulk to save even more money.

One problem with LPG is that it has a much lower joule(read energy) content per unit volume then gasoline does. I think it is around half as much which means you will only get about half the Miles per gallon that you would with gasoline.

We have plentiful LPG here in this country too, which is certainly a factor. Doesn't LPG have the same problem as hydrogen though, that is, when compressed it goes "BOOM"?

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

Badasschick,

I like your AV much, much better than the picture of Vin Diesel.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

If more people would use bio-diesel the sulpher emissions would drop to nothing. I've yet to see anyone find a true negative for bio-diesel yet very few have heard of the stuff.

http://www.biodiesel.com

That stuff looks great. Can it be produced economically?

 

[Myrrdin]

Bio diesol

Depends what kind of bio diesol. Police have lately been arresting people who run their cars on cooking oil spiced up with a touch of methanol.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-12139669,00.html

LPG is stable in storage. You can have your own personal bulk storage tank at home. The storage containers are the same as for household gas.

 

[ma_guy]

That stuff looks great. Can it be produced economically?

There is a guy that runs a company locally that makes it from recycled french-fry oil from the local McDonalds and Burger Kings. They PAY HIM to haul it away and he can produce 100 gallons by burning 6.

His end product does cost about $.15/gallon more (retail) than standard diesel but the milage with it is better so it you save $$ in the end.

The nicest part about it is that this stuff will work in any existing diesel engine right now. No modifications necessary.

 

[LovetoGiveRoses]

There is a guy that runs a company locally that makes it from recycled french-fry oil from the local McDonalds and Burger Kings. They PAY HIM to haul it away and he can produce 100 gallons by burning 6.

His end product does cost about $.15/gallon more (retail) than standard diesel but the milage with it is better so it you save $$ in the end.

The nicest part about it is that this stuff will work in any existing diesel engine right now. No modifications necessary.

That is enterprising. LOL...I'll bet the place where he processes the stuff smells like McDonalds too. Probably has every kid for three miles around coming to peek through his fenced yard to find out what's going on back there. LOL.

 

[ma_guy]

Re: Bio diesol

Depends what kind of bio diesol. Police have lately been arresting people who run their cars on cooking oil spiced up with a touch of methanol.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-12139669,00.html

LPG is stable in storage. You can have your own personal bulk storage tank at home. The storage containers are the same as for household gas.

I notice that those people who were stopped and fined weren't fined for using the bio-diesel but for avoiding paying the fuel taxes...

btw, I had a 1976 Ford F-150 that was setup to run on LPG from the factory. Other than being a bit sluggish off the line it ran well and was very clean. It did require a 200 lb LPG tank in the bed of the truck though (and it isn't a standard tank like you'd have for household use.. It has to meet DOT standards.)

 

[Pyper]

In Spain and Italy, most people drive diesel cars, and in the cities you sure know it *cough*. When my dad came to visit, we rented a diesel car. He thought it was going to be really cheap to fill up, but with European oil prices, it still cost more than a regular tank of gas in the U.S.

 

[Sheaf_Beast]

Fuel efficient

The three popular fuels now are:

Gasoline, usuall 3 grades. can be stored on premise about a $1.50 a gal. to $2.00 a gal.


Diesel, 2 grades,or color, can be stored on premise ranging in price from $1.35 a gal to $1.75 a gal


LPG, 1 grade,can be stored on premise, it ranges from $1.20 a gal. to $ 20.00. you know those small 5 gal. tanks for you outdoor grill.


There are certian tax exempts that you can use on all three of these fuels, mainly an aggriculture exemption.


I just happen to use all three of these diffrent fuels and just try my best to shop around and get the best deal.

 

[Azwed]

Bio-Diesel does have some issues just like any other fuel.

There is some research that points to its emissions being very high in certain cancer causing agents. I don't know how solid this is or if anyone has found a way to correct it yet.

The diesel motors have to be modified somewhat with special filters or something if I remember correctly that are different from the current water seperator filters that are on diesels. The filters have to be replaced more often then current filters but this problem might be solved by refining the bio-diesel to a more exacting standard.

 

[Myrrdin]

European diesols don't have water seperator filters. They may have a drain tap on the bottom of a standard filter bowl. The main cause of water in diesol is water vapour condensing on the inside of the diesol tank, which is why it is better to refuel at the end of the day leaving no space for water to condense as the vehicle cools overnight.