Did Iran accidentally just shoot down a civilian passenger plane?

[Dumpington]

Jeff Wise has written the following for the New York Intelligencer:

It Sure Looks Like the Ukrainian 737 May Have Been Accidentally Shot Down in Iran

In the wake of the crash of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752 over Tehran this morning, two schools of thought quickly emerged. The first accepted the explanation given by Iranian authorities: that the 3-year-old 737-800, which had taken off just minutes before, had suffered engine failure before plunging into the ground at Khalaj Abad, killing all 176 aboard. The second, widespread on the internet, is that the Kiev-bound plane had been accidentally shot down by an Iranian air-defense missile.

Given that the facts are just starting to trickle in, it’s far too early to say with any certainty what actually happened. Based on past experience, much of what has been reported as fact will turn out to be wrong; the true cause may very well turn out to be something no one has yet considered. But given the information we have right now, the second explanation makes far more sense than the first.

According to flight data recorded by Flightradar 24, the plane took off at 6.12 a.m. local time, a little more than three hours after Iran had launched more than a dozen ballistic missiles at Iraqi bases hosting U.S. troops. Three minutes later, the plane had reached an altitude of nearly 8,000 feet and was continuing to climb at a steady ground speed of 318 mph. Then, abruptly, it dropped. A state-run Iranian media outlet released a video that appeared to show the aircraft descending in flames before impacting the ground.

An Iranian official told the IRNA news agency that a fire had broken out in one of the engines, causing the pilot to lose control.

Engine malfunctions can certainly cause planes to crash but generally not in the manner observed with Flight 752. The wing, not the engine, is what keeps a plane in the air, and even if a plane loses power in all its engines, it can still glide for a considerable distance under pilot control (see: the Miracle on the Hudson). Even if an engine catches fire, the flight crew generally has time to respond.

Also worth noting too is that Iran’s explanation came implausibly quickly, before officials had scarcely had a chance to pick through the still-smoldering debris. Tellingly, Ukrainian officials, who had initially endorsed the engine-failure explanation after the crash, quickly backtracked, saying it was way too early to ascribe a cause.

To be sure, there are ways other than a missile strike that a passenger plane can come to catastrophic grief soon after takeoff. In the case of Flight 752, however, none seem to fit very well. The plane was fairly new, the pilots quite experienced. It is plausible, however, that Iranian air-defense forces would have been on high alert. President Trump had already warned that the U.S. military would aggressively bomb Iran if the country used force in the spiraling escalation between the two countries. Tehran, the nation’s capital, would be an obvious target.

 

[Fuzzy1975]

Jeff Wise has written the following for the New York Intelligencer:

It Sure Looks Like the Ukrainian 737 May Have Been Accidentally Shot Down in Iran

In the wake of the crash of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752 over Tehran this morning, two schools of thought quickly emerged. The first accepted the explanation given by Iranian authorities: that the 3-year-old 737-800, which had taken off just minutes before, had suffered engine failure before plunging into the ground at Khalaj Abad, killing all 176 aboard. The second, widespread on the internet, is that the Kiev-bound plane had been accidentally shot down by an Iranian air-defense missile.

Given that the facts are just starting to trickle in, it’s far too early to say with any certainty what actually happened. Based on past experience, much of what has been reported as fact will turn out to be wrong; the true cause may very well turn out to be something no one has yet considered. But given the information we have right now, the second explanation makes far more sense than the first.

According to flight data recorded by Flightradar 24, the plane took off at 6.12 a.m. local time, a little more than three hours after Iran had launched more than a dozen ballistic missiles at Iraqi bases hosting U.S. troops. Three minutes later, the plane had reached an altitude of nearly 8,000 feet and was continuing to climb at a steady ground speed of 318 mph. Then, abruptly, it dropped. A state-run Iranian media outlet released a video that appeared to show the aircraft descending in flames before impacting the ground.

An Iranian official told the IRNA news agency that a fire had broken out in one of the engines, causing the pilot to lose control.

Engine malfunctions can certainly cause planes to crash but generally not in the manner observed with Flight 752. The wing, not the engine, is what keeps a plane in the air, and even if a plane loses power in all its engines, it can still glide for a considerable distance under pilot control (see: the Miracle on the Hudson). Even if an engine catches fire, the flight crew generally has time to respond.

Also worth noting too is that Iran’s explanation came implausibly quickly, before officials had scarcely had a chance to pick through the still-smoldering debris. Tellingly, Ukrainian officials, who had initially endorsed the engine-failure explanation after the crash, quickly backtracked, saying it was way too early to ascribe a cause.

To be sure, there are ways other than a missile strike that a passenger plane can come to catastrophic grief soon after takeoff. In the case of Flight 752, however, none seem to fit very well. The plane was fairly new, the pilots quite experienced. It is plausible, however, that Iranian air-defense forces would have been on high alert. President Trump had already warned that the U.S. military would aggressively bomb Iran if the country used force in the spiraling escalation between the two countries. Tehran, the nation’s capital, would be an obvious target.

See this is what bothers me, about reporters. Pure speculation. Yes a plane can glide if it loses an engine. Flying is about trading altitude for power. If you have altitude, you need less power. If you have no altitude you need power.

While landing, air speed and losing altitude assist you towards that controlled crash, we call a landing, power is not that important.

The Rules change on take off. There you need the power to gain altitude. Since you have neither air speed or altitude.

Those two parts of flight are the most dangerous.

Yes maybe it was shot down,maybe a bird flew into the Engine on take off, or some other shit happened????

Why speculate? While the Iranians are sure as shit not about to let the FAA in there to investigate, they may let in another Accident investigation authority.

Perhaps the actual cause will come out, or maybe not, but if speculation runs rampant, all that will happen is the conspiracy nut bars will have a field day. That sure as hell will not help the poor families who just lost their loved ones.

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Nah we know they shot it down themselves. They literally shot themselves. A SAM battery got nervous and shot at a plane, any plane; THEIR own plane. More or less their own plane at least, permitted in their own airspace.

There were no actual ethnic foreigners on board. They were all ethnic Iranians and Shia Muslims. Except for the Ukraine pilots.

 

[magicalmoments]

#3 above
You need to get your facts right before blurting. I know this because I've been called out plenty of times.
The plane had Canadians and Brits on it in addition to Iranians.

The big issue for me is why are the Iranians holding onto the black boxes? That's highly suspicious. The equivalent of trump refusing to let his staff giving evidence at the impeachment hearings.

 

[icanhelp1]

#3 above
You need to get your facts right before blurting. I know this because I've been called out plenty of times.
The plane had Canadians and Brits on it in addition to Iranians.

The big issue for me is why are the Iranians holding onto the black boxes? That's highly suspicious. The equivalent of trump refusing to let his staff giving evidence at the impeachment hearings.

You even managed to bring Trump into an Iranian plane crash. LOL TDS on steroids

 

[Dumpington]

Fuzzy1975 writes: "Why speculate? While the Iranians are sure as shit not about to let the FAA in there to investigate"

If the plane went down by accident, due to a malfunction, the Iranians would want the entire world to know. But it didn't, and they're not ABOUT to admit that they just shot down a passenger jet, thinking that it might be an American fighter/bomber.

Desiremakesmeweak writes: "There were no actual ethnic foreigners on board."

magicalmoments responds: "The plane had Canadians and Brits on it in addition to Iranians."

I'm assuming that those Canadians & Brits were ethnic Iranians - I mean WHY ELSE would Canadian citizens be flying from Tehran to the Ukraine?

Desiremakesmeweak writes: "A SAM battery got nervous and shot at a plane, any plane; THEIR own plane."

The Iranian military is TERRIFIED of President Trump and what he might do to them, and they'll open fire on innocent civilians if they believe that it's Trump coming after them! They fired off all of those ballistic missiles into the unoccupied eastern Iraqi wilderness just so they could PRETEND to be tough without actually upsetting our president - which they have been very careful NOT to do!

magicalmoments writes: "The big issue for me is why are the Iranians holding onto the black boxes? That's highly suspicious."

You already KNOW the answer to your question, magicalmoments - EVERYBODY knows the answer!

icanhelp1 writes (to magicalmoments): "You even managed to bring Trump into an Iranian plane crash. LOL TDS on steroids"

He's hardly alone - President Trump said that no Americans were hurt by those Iranian missiles fired into the desert, with the Iranians meanwhile claiming to have killed 80 American soldiers! Guess which version was picked-up & reported on by MSNBC? Go ahead... guess!

 

[phrodeau]

Never too soon to rewrite history.

 

[magicalmoments]

#5 above
Not at all, it's a valid comparison.

If you want a good example of deranged trump syndrome look no further than dump and his application of the chosen one in his post above.

 

[Dumpington]

phrodeau writes: "Never too soon to rewrite history."

Exactly right, phrodeau - the Democratic Party is now trying to say that Iranian General Qassem Soleimani was NEVER really a bad guy, and that Iran has NEVER exported terror! But as of right now, the only people buying into that silliness are certain Trump-haters in the Hollywood left and those news media outlets (like CNN & MSNBC) that have lost all of their credibility!

The problem with re-writing history is that everybody can clearly see what it is that they're trying to do! This is EXACTLY the kind of dishonesty that's currently destroying the Democratic Party! Even YOU don't buy into their bullsh*t, and you can HARDLY be called a Trump-supporter (at least not YET!)

magicalmoments writes: "If you want a good example of deranged trump syndrome look no further than dump and his application of the chosen one in his post above."

And what exactly did I write that you disagree with, magicalmoments? Do you not believe that the Iranians accidentally fired a ground-to-air missile at a passenger jet, because the Koran says such a thing would be against Allah's law? Or are you simply upset that Canadian civilians were killed in that jet instead of U.S. army soldiers? Again, you argue that I wrote something wrong, but you can't say what it is?

 

[jp55665566]

Waiting for U.N. or EU to condemn Iran's careless "accident"...

 

[BotanyBoy]

Waiting for U.N. or EU to condemn Iran's careless "accident"...

They won't....they'll blame it on Trump like the "progressives" already are.

 

[icanhelp1]

#5 above
Not at all, it's a valid comparison.

If you want a good example of deranged trump syndrome look no further than dump and his application of the chosen one in his post above.

Trump shot it down to distract from the impeachment hoax

 

[jp55665566]

They won't....they'll blame it on Trump like the "progressives" already are.

President Trump is about to present the EU and the U.N. with a very substantial billing, for doing their military work.

 

[phrodeau]

President Trump is about to present the EU and the U.N. with a very substantial billing, for doing their military work.

That bill will end up next to Trump's letter to Erdogan.

 

[Dumpington]

phrodeau writes: "That bill will end up next to Trump's letter to Erdogan."

If Erdogan would turn against President Trump, the Democratic Party would immediately EMBRACE him!

I mean, think about it, phrodeau - a couple of weeks ago, Iranian General Qassem Soleimani was despised by everybody as a terrorist thug responsible for the deaths of hundreds of American soldiers! But then, Trump orders the military to fire a couple of hellfire missiles up his butt, and now the Democrats LOVE the guy!

The Hollywood left will soon produce a film about how much Soleimani was loved by the Iranian people for his ongoing war against the U.S. & Israel, and how he created the roadside bombs that killed & crippled so many American soldiers! Nancy Pelosi is FURIOUS that President Trump ordered him killed without first getting congressional approval, which Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-MN) insists she'd have NEVER authorized, not in a billion years!

If Soleimani were still alive today, he'd no doubt be invited to speak at this summer's Democratic Party national convention, and stand alongside Jussie Smollett & Dr. Christine Blasey-Ford heroes in the fight to deny Donald Trump a second term! If Turkey's Erdogan can copy this, the political-progressives will love HIM, as well!

 

[DeYaKen]

Jeff Wise has written the following for the New York Intelligencer:

It Sure Looks Like the Ukrainian 737 May Have Been Accidentally Shot Down in Iran

In the wake of the crash of Ukrainian International Airlines Flight 752 over Tehran this morning, two schools of thought quickly emerged. The first accepted the explanation given by Iranian authorities: that the 3-year-old 737-800, which had taken off just minutes before, had suffered engine failure before plunging into the ground at Khalaj Abad, killing all 176 aboard. The second, widespread on the internet, is that the Kiev-bound plane had been accidentally shot down by an Iranian air-defense missile.

Given that the facts are just starting to trickle in, it’s far too early to say with any certainty what actually happened. Based on past experience, much of what has been reported as fact will turn out to be wrong; the true cause may very well turn out to be something no one has yet considered. But given the information we have right now, the second explanation makes far more sense than the first.

According to flight data recorded by Flightradar 24, the plane took off at 6.12 a.m. local time, a little more than three hours after Iran had launched more than a dozen ballistic missiles at Iraqi bases hosting U.S. troops. Three minutes later, the plane had reached an altitude of nearly 8,000 feet and was continuing to climb at a steady ground speed of 318 mph. Then, abruptly, it dropped. A state-run Iranian media outlet released a video that appeared to show the aircraft descending in flames before impacting the ground.

An Iranian official told the IRNA news agency that a fire had broken out in one of the engines, causing the pilot to lose control.

Engine malfunctions can certainly cause planes to crash but generally not in the manner observed with Flight 752. The wing, not the engine, is what keeps a plane in the air, and even if a plane loses power in all its engines, it can still glide for a considerable distance under pilot control (see: the Miracle on the Hudson). Even if an engine catches fire, the flight crew generally has time to respond.

Also worth noting too is that Iran’s explanation came implausibly quickly, before officials had scarcely had a chance to pick through the still-smoldering debris. Tellingly, Ukrainian officials, who had initially endorsed the engine-failure explanation after the crash, quickly backtracked, saying it was way too early to ascribe a cause.

To be sure, there are ways other than a missile strike that a passenger plane can come to catastrophic grief soon after takeoff. In the case of Flight 752, however, none seem to fit very well. The plane was fairly new, the pilots quite experienced. It is plausible, however, that Iranian air-defense forces would have been on high alert. President Trump had already warned that the U.S. military would aggressively bomb Iran if the country used force in the spiraling escalation between the two countries. Tehran, the nation’s capital, would be an obvious target.

It's quite possible, these things happen when you destabilise a region by carrying out attacks like the one perpetrated by the US. A prime example of this was the shooting down of Iranian Airliners Flight 655 by USS Vincennes in 1988. Just as the Vincennes mistook the airbus for an F14 it is likely that the Iranians mistook the airliner for a secondary attack by the US.

 

[Dumpington]

DeYaKen writes: "It's quite possible, these things happen when you destabilise a region by carrying out attacks like the one perpetrated by the US."

Don't be absurd - the U.S. isn't the country destabilizing that region! Have you SERIOUSLY never heard about Iran placing mines on oil tankers in the Persian Gulf? Have you SERIOUSLY not heard about Iran launching that drone-strike against Saudi oil installations?

You are being an APOLOGIST for Iranian-backed terrorism, DeYaKen! Next you'll be telling me that Iranian General Qassem Soleimani was fighting for LGBT rights in Iran, instead of helping that regime to execute gay people in public (which they say is Allah's will) before Trump took him out!

"A prime example of this was the shooting down of Iranian Airliners Flight 655 by USS Vincennes in 1988. Just as the Vincennes mistook the airbus for an F14 it is likely that the Iranians mistook the airliner for a secondary attack by the US."

You DON'T fly an unannounced passenger jet over a U.S. Navy task force from an unfriendly country (like Iran!) Muslim terrorists are KNOWN to kill themselves (and everybody else on board), or have you SERIOUSLY never heard about 9-11-01? Also, the U.S. Navy acknowledged that tragic incident, whereas Iran insists that they DIDN'T accidentally fire missiles at that Ukrainian passenger jet, despite everybody (yourself included) knowing that they're LYING!

Iran also told their people that all of those ballistic missiles they fired earlier this week into the empty desert of eastern Iraq killed 80-Americans! Does ANYBODY believe them?

 

[phrodeau]

Fog of war and all. If Iran hadn’t shot that plane down, the US would’ve taken aim at it.

 

[JackLuis]

Fog of war and all. If Iran hadn’t shot that plane down, the US would’ve taken aim at it.

Or it could have been a Russian false flag to give the kerfuffle an extra boost?

 

[astuffedshirt_perv]

Welp, it looks like the Canadians have concluded Iran shot it down. Oops.

 

[DeYaKen]

DeYaKen writes: "It's quite possible, these things happen when you destabilise a region by carrying out attacks like the one perpetrated by the US."

Don't be absurd - the U.S. isn't the country destabilizing that region! Have you SERIOUSLY never heard about Iran placing mines on oil tankers in the Persian Gulf? Have you SERIOUSLY not heard about Iran launching that drone-strike against Saudi oil installations?

You are being an APOLOGIST for Iranian-backed terrorism, DeYaKen! Next you'll be telling me that Iranian General Qassem Soleimani was fighting for LGBT rights in Iran, instead of helping that regime to execute gay people in public (which they say is Allah's will) before Trump took him out!

"A prime example of this was the shooting down of Iranian Airliners Flight 655 by USS Vincennes in 1988. Just as the Vincennes mistook the airbus for an F14 it is likely that the Iranians mistook the airliner for a secondary attack by the US."

You DON'T fly an unannounced passenger jet over a U.S. Navy task force from an unfriendly country (like Iran!) Muslim terrorists are KNOWN to kill themselves (and everybody else on board), or have you SERIOUSLY never heard about 9-11-01? Also, the U.S. Navy acknowledged that tragic incident, whereas Iran insists that they DIDN'T accidentally fire missiles at that Ukrainian passenger jet, despite everybody (yourself included) knowing that they're LYING!

Iran also told their people that all of those ballistic missiles they fired earlier this week into the empty desert of eastern Iraq killed 80-Americans! Does ANYBODY believe them?

I'm apologising for no one. If a Us ship with all the detection equipment available to the most powerful military nation in the world can make a mistake, so can a tin pot Arab country that feels it is under threat. Did they have a right to feel they were under threat? Well, since those threats came straight from your president's mouth. I would say they did. No country should have to tell the US when it plans to fly civilian aircraft in it's own airspace. The Flight was still in Iranian airspace when the Vincennes launched its missiles.

As for destabilising, that region was as stable as it had been for years before your president went back on the promises made in the Iranian nuclear deal. He then applied punitive sanctions to try and force other countries to follow suit. Then he has a top general, one who has been spearheading the fight against IS, assassinated in a country over which neither side had jurisdiction and you think that is not destabilising.

What you have to remember is that in a conflict BOTH SIDES TELL LIES. We have the presidents's word that no Americans were Killed or injured, but we know what the president's word is worth. We have the Ayetolla's word that 80 people were killed but we know that that is as much for home consumption as is the president's. Each side will present their own version and the truth will be somewhere in between.

What you don't seem to appreciate is that it takes two to tango and if people had left well enough alone we probably wouldn't be in the current position.

 

[Dumpington]

phrodeau writes: "Fog of war and all. If Iran hadn’t shot that plane down, the US would’ve taken aim at it."

That's just dumb, phrodeau - WHY would the U.S. shoot down a passenger jet flying from Tehran to the Ukraine? We weren't even attacking Iran! They were busy attacking themselves!

JackLuis writes: "Or it could have been a Russian false flag to give the kerfuffle an extra boost?"

Russia is Iran's ally, but the Russians are NOT on friendly terms with the Ukraine. But this particular bit of murderous-bungling was ALL Iran's!

astuffedshirt_perv writes: "Welp, it looks like the Canadians have concluded Iran shot it down. Oops."

And the Canadians won't do anything about it because... well, they're Canadians!

DeYaKen writes: "Did they have a right to feel they were under threat? Well, since those threats came straight from your president's mouth."

So you're saying that President Trump threatens Iran, and the Iranians respond by firing a missile at a passenger flight leaving Tehran for the Ukraine? Yeah, that sounds about right!

"...before your president went back on the promises made in the Iranian nuclear deal."

President Obama signed a sucker's deal that was SO BAD that he never even forwarded it to the House for congressional approval. But he DID secretly ship billions of dollars to Iran, didn't he?

"We have the presidents's word that no Americans were Killed or injured, but we know what the president's word is worth."

The U.S. military regularly reports our casualty figures in Iraq & Afghanistan - and they say that Iran's ballistic missile attack killed/injured nobody. Iran says eighty-Americans were killed. The Trump-haters WANT to believe Iran. I get that! They WANT to believe that the passenger jet flying from Tehran to the Ukraine simply fell from the sky from mechanical trouble, as reported by the Iranians. I get that, as well! The left WANTS to believe Iran!

 

[jp55665566]

The Trump-haters WANT to believe Iran. I get that! They WANT to believe that the passenger jet flying from Tehran to the Ukraine simply fell from the sky from mechanical trouble, as reported by the Iranians. I get that, as well! The left WANTS to believe Iran!

But, you make it sound as though the Trump-haters are some kind of CULT...

 

[DeYaKen]

phrodeau writes: "Fog of war and all. If Iran hadn’t shot that plane down, the US would’ve taken aim at it."

That's just dumb, phrodeau - WHY would the U.S. shoot down a passenger jet flying from Tehran to the Ukraine? We weren't even attacking Iran! They were busy attacking themselves!

JackLuis writes: "Or it could have been a Russian false flag to give the kerfuffle an extra boost?"

Russia is Iran's ally, but the Russians are NOT on friendly terms with the Ukraine. But this particular bit of murderous-bungling was ALL Iran's!

astuffedshirt_perv writes: "Welp, it looks like the Canadians have concluded Iran shot it down. Oops."

And the Canadians won't do anything about it because... well, they're Canadians!

DeYaKen writes: "Did they have a right to feel they were under threat? Well, since those threats came straight from your president's mouth."

So you're saying that President Trump threatens Iran, and the Iranians respond by firing a missile at a passenger flight leaving Tehran for the Ukraine? Yeah, that sounds about right!

"...before your president went back on the promises made in the Iranian nuclear deal."

President Obama signed a sucker's deal that was SO BAD that he never even forwarded it to the House for congressional approval. But he DID secretly ship billions of dollars to Iran, didn't he?

"We have the presidents's word that no Americans were Killed or injured, but we know what the president's word is worth."

The U.S. military regularly reports our casualty figures in Iraq & Afghanistan - and they say that Iran's ballistic missile attack killed/injured nobody. Iran says eighty-Americans were killed. The Trump-haters WANT to believe Iran. I get that! They WANT to believe that the passenger jet flying from Tehran to the Ukraine simply fell from the sky from mechanical trouble, as reported by the Iranians. I get that, as well! The left WANTS to believe Iran!

A question for you. If we assume the airliner was shot down, would it have happened if Quasem Soleimani had not been assassinated?

 

[Desiremakesmeweak]

Yeah why not? They - in fact ESPECIALLY that idiot Soleimani - murdered 5,000 or their own students in the student uprising of 1999.

And I place that statistic here so that some of you ultra-f*s can go look it up same as you had to when I posted that when Islam unilaterally invaded India they massacred 600 million innocent Hindus.

No one said anything much after they found it was either 'ONLY' 200 million, by one set of academic estimations, or as much as 900 MILLION by a different set of very serious academic estimations.

...You know, when the innocent peace-loving Muslims, unilaterally moved to invade a foreign country far far away just to libertize them first well before GWB and teach them what peace means.